Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
How disrespectful and lacking in class can a CEO be? It is an unspoken code of conduct among CEOs that you do not attack your competitors products like that.
In fact, this says more about Jensen Huang's paranoia and real fear about the threat of AMD.
Letter to Dr Lisa Su: AMD should have made the AMD APUs (3000 series and FengHuang type) the highest priority for 7nm production. It is what will earn AMD consumer mindshare. The DIY PC market is only a small market globally. But laptops and OEM PCs form the majority of the market. So many school kids have never heard of AMD because they've only bought Intel in their short time on this planet. Yet they own personal laptops for school work and leisure.
The AMD APUs are the real threat to Intel and Nvidia because they are unable to compete on a price-performance and raw iGPU performance level. AMD is the only one able to do APUs. Nvidia is desperately going with ThinQ with RTX 2080s because they fear being made totally irrelevant by AMD APUs. When Intel eventually produces their 3D CPUs with iGPU, AMD APUs will actually lose their edge, so time really is of the essence!
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
preter_s
... AMD should have made the AMD APUs (3000 series and FengHuang type) the highest priority for 7nm production. It is what will earn AMD consumer mindshare. The DIY PC market is only a small market globally. But laptops and OEM PCs form the majority of the market. ...
That only works is you can get enough OEM design wins to sway the popular mindshare, and AMD have always struggled to do that. Even with as good a product as Raven Ridge there are still very few Ryzen laptops available.
It's also something of a fallacy to think that AMD are targeting the DIY PC market. They're actually targeting the server market. The desktop CPUs are a side-product of that (as they use the same chiplets that the server chips are built from). The server market is considerably more lucrative and higher margin than OEM laptop APUs. AMD are trying to win the minds of corporate, and I get the feeling they're doing a pretty good job of it...
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scaryjim
Quote:
Originally Posted by
preter_s
... AMD should have made the AMD APUs (3000 series and FengHuang type) the highest priority for 7nm production. It is what will earn AMD consumer mindshare. The DIY PC market is only a small market globally. But laptops and OEM PCs form the majority of the market. ...
That only works is you can get enough OEM design wins to sway the popular mindshare, and AMD have always struggled to do that. Even with as good a product as Raven Ridge there are still very few Ryzen laptops available.
It's also something of a fallacy to think that AMD are targeting the DIY PC market. They're actually targeting the server market. The desktop CPUs are a side-product of that (as they use the same chiplets that the server chips are built from). The server market is considerably more lucrative and higher margin than OEM laptop APUs. AMD are trying to win the minds of corporate, and I get the feeling they're doing a pretty good job of it...
Since when did I say that "AMD are targeting the DIY PC market". That is purely a figment of your wonky imagination. We all know that Zen CCXs form the building blocks for everything up to EPYC CPUS. We don't need you to tell us that. But CCXs also form the basis for the Zen cores in AMD APUs!
I don't think you are getting the point of it. The fact that AMD is able to use the 7nm for the desktop CPUs and EPYC but they are slow to deliver it on APUs means that they are failing on their true competitive strength - the sole player with the ability in the market to combine CPU and true GPU performance in a single chip SOC. Ryzen and Epyc are just pure CPUs. Vega Radeon are getting a bad rep (unfairly) in the consumer mindshare.
But by combining both of them, AMD APUs are the only ones that are head and shoulders above anything on the market from Intel (where Nvidia cannot compete at all) whether in the convertible, 2-in-1, ultrabook, laptop or Chromebook space.
The fact that there are still limited OEM design wins for Raven Ridge APUs despite their objectively great price-TDP-performance advantages (2-3x iGPU performance) says everything about the anti-competitive tactics of the Intel-Nvidia axis. Nvidia's Max ThinQ crap are just desperate moves to move towards the high end gaming laptop segment to remain relevant in the laptop space. The Intel Core-Radeon thing also does not seem to have many OEM wins, so its time for AMD to go it alone.
Which is why there is a need for AMD to redouble their APU efforts. This is a marketing mindshare win in the consumer space that AMD cannot get anywhere else. EPYC belongs to a different enterprise market space altogether, don't confuse and conflate the two.
If AMD cannot capitalize on the ability to combine CPU-GPU nous to make a break through in the desktop and OEM mobile market, then what will? If AMD does 7nm APUs only in 2020, Intel may have 3D CPU-iGPU by then too. Speed is key. 7nm APUs would be a no brainer for any OEM laptop design (below the highest end gaming laptops).
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
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Originally Posted by
Iota
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nobodyspecial
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Interesting take on things, AMD has outperformed Nvidia in terms of growth in the last 12 months, increased their EPS, reduced operating costs. On the flipside Nvidia is nowhere near the same growth rate as AMD and increased operating costs.
With regards to the usage of HBM2 in their higher end cards, to simply suggest that it could be swapped out for GDDR5 / GDDR5x / GDDR6 ignores that you would have to redesign the chip to do so. If you're not sure or have missed the point in the use of HBM / HBM2, then perhaps read this
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11002...cture-teaser/3. It may give you a little more insight into what you're suggesting and talking about.
NV makes a Billion a quarter now, wake me when AMD hits 250mil for a Q. Currently ~100, so, not sure what you're on about. They've done this 3 times. Quit doing it. Design it RIGHT for use with things that won't hold up production or blowup your costs. That is my point, quit repeating BAD history. LOL, I've been buying the chips stocks for decades. I understand fully how they work, the fabs, etc. What I don't understand is why AMD keeps designing for failure, meaning, avoiding GDDR5x or even GDDR6 now for top consumer cards. You are acting like they don't know how to use other controllers/interfaces.
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nobodyspecial
NV makes a Billion a quarter now, wake me when AMD hits 250mil for a Q. Currently ~100, so, not sure what you're on about...
Their revenue is $1.76 billion, Nvidias is $2.2 billion in Q2 2018. What you're talking about is Net Income which for Nvidia in Q2 2018 just over $500 million and AMD at ~$111 million. However, the reason why AMDs Net Income is so low is because of the dramatic re-investment of any moneys they make into their expansion so their profit/income is low in comparison to their revenue. This means they are expanding and growing which means they have to cut their overall "floating cash" low to get a big win later. The reasons why you're smacking AMD are illogical at best as Nvidia focuses on profits and earnings reports than expansion as they are market dominance in majority of sectors. Their business focus is very different from AMD in this regard.
A more savvy stock broker, please feel free to correct.
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
preter_s
Since when did I say that "AMD are targeting the DIY PC market". That is purely a figment of your wonky imagination. ...
Allow me to quote from your "letter":
'It is what will earn AMD consumer mindshare. The DIY PC market is only a small market globally. But laptops and OEM PCs form the majority of the market.'
So, you say they should make APUs, you say this will target the majority of the market, and you explicitly mention the DIY PC market as being small. That's a pretty strong implication that you think they're targeting the DIY PC market, not the laptop market.
APUs have never been AMD's competitive strength in the consumer market, because the consumer market doesn't need the level of graphics offered by Vega. Intel's IGPs have been more than adequate for several generations now.
Where AMD do play well with APUs is in consoles and semi-custom, and they've made good income from those over the last few years.
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
Well... it's AMD. Do you really expect them to have a good-performing GPU? They can barely manage a good performing CPU, and ATi (turned AMD) has historically been only a somewhat distant second best for more than a a couple of decades.
AMD absolutely cannot compete with nVidia on the GPU front; how many more years do nVidia products have to prove this? They should ditch the ATi part of the business and concentrate their resources where they are desperately needed; CPU and SOC development.
Re: Nvidia CEO says AMD Radeon VII "performance is lousy"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaMoot
Well... it's AMD. Do you really expect them to have a good-performing GPU? They can barely manage a good performing CPU, and ATi (turned AMD) has historically been only a somewhat distant second best for more than a a couple of decades. .
Are you seriously suggesting that ATi have not produced a leading or close to leading GPU for more than 20 years? Have you ever read hardware reviews?
