Amazon Alexa can be summoned by voice on all Windows 10 PCs

[Unique]

Ummm, I mean this in the politest possible way and not in a snarky, sarcastic way but .... you do realise this entire thread is about Cortana, yes? It's not about Alexa, but about adding such "conversational AI" to Cortana.

And I certainly mentioned it, more than once.

It's the core of my objection.

The specific point is about adding this AI to Cortana, but the more general point is about any company, and not just MS albeit that they are arch-culprits, adding any features to existing hardware (be it PC, phone, tablet, etc) without the user's consent.

And that has bells on when it is something like a privacy-encroaching "feature" like this.

I remember pointing out, in threads .ike this when W10 first came out that I objected to several things, and objected sufficiently to go to huge trouble re-organising my home and home-office computing to take mych off it off-net and behind an air-gap, and the rest onto Linux.

My objection to forced updates was three-fold.

1) Initiallt at least, little or no control over when updates are done.

2) The possibility, however unlikely, that the update borks my PC. And, Murphy's Law bejng what it is, that'll happen at the most inconvenient moment.

3) While mandatory bug-fixes and/or security updates are one thing (subject tocme having control over when), adding or updating product features is entirely another.

With 3), MS lost my trust, despite having used MS OS products since well before there was a Windows, and being a very early Windows adopter, when they decided to mess about with the Win8 Start button (and the way it functioned). I have my PCs set up in a way that suits me, and has done for a long time (which includes nested Start menus) and I declined Win8 because I wasn't prepared to change that jyst because MS wanted me to.

And yes, I know there are other ways to do it, but my method suits me.

When Win10 came along as the "last" version of Windows, because from now on, "upgrades" will be slip-streamed, and installed whether we want them or not, in mandatory updates, THAT was a large step too far precisely because it puts thr decision about the functionality of my PC into Microsoft's hands andcthe W8 Start fiasco demonstrated they aren't to be trusted with it.

The ONLY thing I expect, no, require, from MS is that they respect that my PCs are MINE, not theirs. And that implies that they ASK before installing stuff, and don't go about foisting unwanted and frankly utterly unacceptable "features" at their whim.

All they have to do is ASK.

If people want the "convenience" of Alexa-type features in Cortana, fine, say yes. But I don't want any form of Cortana, never mind one that's always snoopi .... sorrry, listening, in my home.

So ask, already!

thread title "Amazon Alexa can be summoned by voice on all Windows 10 PCs" - just look at the comments page and read down. on the comments page you don't see the main body of text, one of the issues of this site. if you browse threads from the forum you don't get the main text

regarding consent, i'm pretty sure the user grants the necesary consent with the T&C's they accept when installing the software, otherwise i'm sure there would be lawsuits in the states at least. with software, in particular an operating system in this day and age, you aren't simply buying a static piece of unchanging software, you are getting more of a service than something static, so it changes with upgrades and fixes, and you accept that with the terms when you install. regardless of that, you can usually prevent updates on the system if that's what you want to choose to do. so you have the choice of buying/installing/upgrading/uninstalling and either using or not using. you can choose when upgrades are done, and you can usually either disable or simply not use additional features you don't want. it's your choice. your pc may be yours, but the software is theirs. it's your choice to accept to buy and use it or not. you don't have to do either. it's your choice. if you don't want cortana, you don't need to use it. you don't need to use windows 10. i've had cortana for years and i'ts never been able to listen to me as i have no mic on my pc, which was my choice not to buy/install as i have no need for it. you could choose to do the same if that was what you wanted. you've already granted your permissions to MS, you can still choose to stop using the products, or choose not to upgrade, or choose not to use cortana. it's your choice

it's not just MS who do things like this. life is full of changes, sometimes there's things you like, sometimes things you don't like. sometimes the things you think you won't like, you may like or not mind in the end. unless you fully design and create something for yourself and have the finances and resources to bring it to life, you sometimes have to consider compromises, whether it's the home you live in, or the clothes you buy, or the hardware you buy, or the software you use. with a smartphone, iphone may give you some things you want but android phones have other things you want that the iphone won't give you, so you have to choose what you want in the end. life doesn't always give you everything you want in one package

[Unique]

Ah, yes the boiled-down illogic of the "choice" that isn't really. Like it's my choice to commute by a certain well-hated rail operator when I have no actual choice but to use them as they have a monopoly on the line and I do actually have to travel into London each day. I could change job, but to what? My skill set is pretty well fixed by now and unless I want to go default on my mortgage (and then end up paying more in rent than my current repayments) retraining isn't a sensible option this far in. The jobs for me are (for now and the forseeable future) all in the centre for my line of work and thus I have no choice. It's too far to cycle, takes too long to drive (and is getting harder and more costly with all the central zone "improvements" they are making), I can't afford a helicopter and the giant eagles so far haven't responded to my calls irrespective of which ring I wear around my neck. I have to attend both my office and the sites we serve. It's the problem with being specialised. You can't move the sites elsewhere. Well i suppose some idiot could try and build them elsewhere but people tend to want to commute to and be based where the jobs are so that limits where things get built. I could go and live in a cave as a hermit, but it is the modern world and we tend to need to be employed, and I intend to stay in a line of work that won't be being done by a robot in 5 years time. I wouldn't qualify for benefits and the amount of unemployment in the area shows that other jobs are not guaranteed. so, long term survival and all that, it's not a choice.

Your stance is an interesting one. I get your point, in theory, but I'm afraid IMO you're being too blinkered. Are you a young politics student by any chance? You remind me of someone I knew at university who seemed to thrive on those sort of views. Next you'll be saying that we could choose to not have electricity. Sure, we could, but it would be a rather pointless choice. And try persuading social services that one is fit to keep one's children in that sort of condition. You won't get custody. Choice? Really? Are you sure?

it is a choice. you choose to life where you do and work where you do. you can choose to get another job or move. or drive. you can even choose to learn to drive if you can't drive

not all choices are great fantastic choices, but they are choices none the less. you're current circumstances are the result of a number of choices you've made over the years, from choices at school leading to choices of work and home. contrary to what you say about not having choice, it's simply not true. you can choose to resign your job today. that's your choice. the reality is you don't want to make certain choices, instead you choose to keep doing the same thing, and i get the impression that you aren't particularly happy with the circumstances of your choices, but you still don't want to choose something else, so you are sticking with your choices regardless of how happy or unhappy your choices make you feel

i'm not a young person or studied politics. i'm just someone who understands we have many many choices in life, and many people don't realise the choices they have and think they don't have choices because the reality is they don't like the alternate choices they have on offer, so they stick with that they have and say or maybe even think they don't have a choice, when they do. the alternate options may not be great, but they are an option and you have the choice to take it. some people may take what you've said and boil it down to you simply being too scared to make a change so you stick with the circumstance you have, no matter how much you dislike it. i know how that feels, as i know the feeling of being trapped in a job i didn't like to pay the mortgage and bills and too scared to take the leap to get another job that may not work out and leave me with no job a few weeks/months later instead of the security of my existing job. but that's my choice. if i'm overweight, it's a result of my choices in life, what i eat, and lack of exercise. here we are talking about functionalist of software we don't need to use, it's a far simpler choice. rather than being too blinkered, it's the complete opposite, i look at the far greater picture, thinking outside the box too. you're statement about having no choice is the one that comes across as extremely blinkered. do you really need someone else like myself to point out that you do have choices? or do you really think you still have no choice, that you can't leave your job? sure there will be consequences if you do, but that your choice. your choice appears pretty clear in that you are just going to stick with what you got and you choose not to change. a life changing event could happen at any time and then you may make different choices. you could end up in a life changing accident, or your home could burn down, or you could get an unexpected financial windfall that could lead to changes. the same could happen to myself or many/most/all other people. your choices today could be different to your choices made tomorrow. you just need to realise how much choice in life you really have. and i'm no hippy, far from it, very much a capitalist (not a tory though!). i'm just someone who weighs up options and looks for alternatives, but realises sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side, but just because i may do what you do and stick with what i have a lot, it doesn't mean i don't have the choice to make changes. sometimes making changes takes you out of your comfort zone, and that's what puts many people off, and makes people think they don't have the choices that they do

[ik9000]

it is a choice. you choose to life where you do and work where you do. you can choose to get another job or move. or drive. you can even choose to learn to drive if you can't drive

not all choices are great fantastic choices, but they are choices none the less. you're current circumstances are the result of a number of choices you've made over the years, from choices at school leading to choices of work and home. contrary to what you say about not having choice, it's simply not true. you can choose to resign your job today. that's your choice. the reality is you don't want to make certain choices, instead you choose to keep doing the same thing, and i get the impression that you aren't particularly happy with the circumstances of your choices, but you still don't want to choose something else, so you are sticking with your choices regardless of how happy or unhappy your choices make you feel

i'm not a young person or studied politics. i'm just someone who understands we have many many choices in life, and many people don't realise the choices they have and think they don't have choices because the reality is they don't like the alternate choices they have on offer, so they stick with that they have and say or maybe even think they don't have a choice, when they do. the alternate options may not be great, but they are an option and you have the choice to take it. some people may take what you've said and boil it down to you simply being too scared to make a change so you stick with the circumstance you have, no matter how much you dislike it. i know how that feels, as i know the feeling of being trapped in a job i didn't like to pay the mortgage and bills and too scared to take the leap to get another job that may not work out and leave me with no job a few weeks/months later instead of the security of my existing job. but that's my choice. if i'm overweight, it's a result of my choices in life, what i eat, and lack of exercise. here we are talking about functionalist of software we don't need to use, it's a far simpler choice. rather than being too blinkered, it's the complete opposite, i look at the far greater picture, thinking outside the box too. you're statement about having no choice is the one that comes across as extremely blinkered. do you really need someone else like myself to point out that you do have choices? or do you really think you still have no choice, that you can't leave your job? sure there will be consequences if you do, but that your choice. your choice appears pretty clear in that you are just going to stick with what you got and you choose not to change. a life changing event could happen at any time and then you may make different choices. you could end up in a life changing accident, or your home could burn down, or you could get an unexpected financial windfall that could lead to changes. the same could happen to myself or many/most/all other people. your choices today could be different to your choices made tomorrow. you just need to realise how much choice in life you really have. and i'm no hippy, far from it, very much a capitalist (not a tory though!). i'm just someone who weighs up options and looks for alternatives, but realises sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side, but just because i may do what you do and stick with what i have a lot, it doesn't mean i don't have the choice to make changes. sometimes making changes takes you out of your comfort zone, and that's what puts many people off, and makes people think they don't have the choices that they do

let's agree to disagree.

[Ttaskmaster]

Conversational AI sounds interesting... Reminds me of Geordi La Forge taking a long shuttle trip alone somewhere and nattering with the computer, even getting her to quiz him on something engineeringy. Could be good for lonely/bored people.

I do wonder how many problems this thing causes for anyone actually called Alexa, though... especially parents of a naughty daughter thus-named!!

just look at the comments page and read down. on the comments page you don't see the main body of text, one of the issues of this site. if you browse threads from the forum you don't get the main text

Not sure what you're getting, but I appear to see both the article text and the forum comments on the same page... and even if I couldn't, I'd just open the missing one in a new tab or summat.

i'm just someone who understands we have many many choices in life

But perhaps not someone who fully appreciates the lengths that companies will go, to either make you think you have no choice but to buy their stuff, or to engineer society and make the other options so ridiculously unattractive/outdated/impractical/impossible that you may as well have no choice but to adopt what they have now made a requirement.

[Unique]

Conversational AI sounds interesting... Reminds me of Geordi La Forge taking a long shuttle trip alone somewhere and nattering with the computer, even getting her to quiz him on something engineeringy. Could be good for lonely/bored people.

I do wonder how many problems this thing causes for anyone actually called Alexa, though... especially parents of a naughty daughter thus-named!!



Not sure what you're getting, but I appear to see both the article text and the forum comments on the same page... and even if I couldn't, I'd just open the missing one in a new tab or summat.


But perhaps not someone who fully appreciates the lengths that companies will go, to either make you think you have no choice but to buy their stuff, or to engineer society and make the other options so ridiculously unattractive/outdated/impractical/impossible that you may as well have no choice but to adopt what they have now made a requirement.

nope. it's still choice regardless of the choices and whether you like them or not. in this case you just don't need to use it if you don't want to. one of the main points is people have a lot of choice but they don't realise they've made a choice to do what they want, to perhaps play safe. they've made the choice they are happy with as they don't like or want the alternative, such as the poster on here talking about how he has no choice (to paraphrase his own words), yet he's clearly made the choice to live where he lives, to do the job he's doing, etc etc etc. but in the uk we aren't forced to work, you can scrounge off benefits and watch jeremy kyle if you want to. some people literally prefer to do that instead of getting a job and getting some money to improve their circumstances. that's their choice. ironically some of those people may actually be happier than others working away stressed out their boxes from work and other commitments such as paying bills and having debts

about the article, this discussion has been going on for hours or days, so the main piece is read at one point and not seen later on, or it's forgotten about as replies are made to the most recent posts. the thread title is clear, but unless you click on the link in the first article, or read the thread from the front page, you don't see the text, so amongst reading many other things, such as the news, and work, and watching tv and movies and talking to other people, etc etc etc, it's quite easy to overlook certain things. people are unlikely to keep opening the link again in another tab if they've already read it. but that's their choice isn't it?

btw you can change the wake word to something other than alexa if you want

[atemporal]

nope. it's still choice regardless of the choices and whether you like them or not. in this case you just don't need to use it if you don't want to. one of the main points is people have a lot of choice but they don't realise they've made a choice to do what they want, to perhaps play safe. they've made the choice they are happy with as they don't like or want the alternative, such as the poster on here talking about how he has no choice (to paraphrase his own words), yet he's clearly made the choice to live where he lives, to do the job he's doing, etc etc etc. but in the uk we aren't forced to work, you can scrounge off benefits and watch jeremy kyle if you want to. some people literally prefer to do that instead of getting a job and getting some money to improve their circumstances. that's their choice. ironically some of those people may actually be happier than others working away stressed out their boxes from work and other commitments such as paying bills and having debts

about the article, this discussion has been going on for hours or days, so the main piece is read at one point and not seen later on, or it's forgotten about as replies are made to the most recent posts. the thread title is clear, but unless you click on the link in the first article, or read the thread from the front page, you don't see the text, so amongst reading many other things, such as the news, and work, and watching tv and movies and talking to other people, etc etc etc, it's quite easy to overlook certain things. people are unlikely to keep opening the link again in another tab if they've already read it. but that's their choice isn't it?

btw you can change the wake word to something other than alexa if you want

what about taxes? Do we have a choice to pay our taxes? What about not sending our kids to school? Do we have a a choice there? Or what if I choose to build a shed on your front drive? You're a champion of choice but not listening to the comments people are making.

[Unique]

what about taxes? Do we have a choice to pay our taxes? What about not sending our kids to school? Do we have a a choice there? Or what if I choose to build a shed on your front drive? You're a champion of choice but not listening to the comments people are making.

not sure what this has to do with alexa, but yes is the answer. of course as with any choices, there may be consequences you may not like. i can read what people are saying, which is why i can provide an answer. whilst you may have choice, you may not necessarily like the options, but it's still choice nonetheless. i don't have a drive or kids so you may find implementing your choices may not be particularly easy at times, but not all choices are easy to implement

[atemporal]

not sure what this has to do with alexa, but yes is the answer. of course as with any choices, there may be consequences you may not like. i can read what people are saying, which is why i can provide an answer. whilst you may have choice, you may not necessarily like the options, but it's still choice nonetheless. i don't have a drive or kids so you may find implementing your choices may not be particularly easy at times, but not all choices are easy to implement

So you do admit that the consequences might render the choice null and actually effectively no practicable choice at all. Good. This is the point people are making about windows 10. The choice isn't as much as it may first appear as necessity, or (as you put it) the consequences you may not like, prevent people from enacting the alternative in that choice to be snooped on/listened to/articially assisted or however people at MS want to spin it.

[Saracen999]

nope. it's still choice regardless of the choices and whether you like them or not. in this case you just don't need to use it if you don't want to.

...

You're missing my point.

It's not about whether I use it. It's about MS force-installing options ir features whether I want them or not.

I don't want this "conversational AI" on my PC, and under no circumstances do I want it running, only to not be used.

I have choices, and made them. I choose to switch ftom Windows to Linux or connected PCs because of several aspects of W10, including Cortana but more relevantly, mandatory upgrades, and for most of my machines, to disconnect ftom the net and keep legacy OSs.

I made that choice because MS decided that if I upgraded to Win10, they then owned the right to install, activate or deactivate aspects of the way my PC works or worked, without even notifying me much less asking.

To make changes to my PC that I don't want, haven't asked for and certainly would not agree to is not a choice. Instead, it forced me into a choice between putting up with their arrogance, or going to a LOT of time, effort and some cost, to switch to Linux.

MS could have asked if people want Cortana or Alexa-type features. They could even have just offered sn uninstall option for those, like me, that adamantly don't want this garbage. Just like they could have given us the ability (on mainstream domestic versions) to disable auto -updates.

But they consistently haven't. They won't give users the choice.

[Unique]

So you do admit that the consequences might render the choice null and actually effectively no practicable choice at all. Good. This is the point people are making about windows 10. The choice isn't as much as it may first appear as necessity, or (as you put it) the consequences you may not like, prevent people from enacting the alternative in that choice to be snooped on/listened to/articially assisted or however people at MS want to spin it.

nope, not at all. you have the choice. no one needs to use windows 10. use windows 7 or linux or osx as alternatives for example. this is far from making choices null and void. you seem to have lost perspective on things

[Unique]

You're missing my point.

It's not about whether I use it. It's about MS force-installing options ir features whether I want them or not.

I don't want this "conversational AI" on my PC, and under no circumstances do I want it running, only to not be used.

I have choices, and made them. I choose to switch ftom Windows to Linux or connected PCs because of several aspects of W10, including Cortana but more relevantly, mandatory upgrades, and for most of my machines, to disconnect ftom the net and keep legacy OSs.

I made that choice because MS decided that if I upgraded to Win10, they then owned the right to install, activate or deactivate aspects of the way my PC works or worked, without even notifying me much less asking.

To make changes to my PC that I don't want, haven't asked for and certainly would not agree to is not a choice. Instead, it forced me into a choice between putting up with their arrogance, or going to a LOT of time, effort and some cost, to switch to Linux.

MS could have asked if people want Cortana or Alexa-type features. They could even have just offered sn uninstall option for those, like me, that adamantly don't want this garbage. Just like they could have given us the ability (on mainstream domestic versions) to disable auto -updates.

But they consistently haven't. They won't give users the choice.

i don't miss your point at all. i see your point and offer my reply. you don't need to use windows 10. you aren't forced to upgrade, and you can choose to stop using windows 10 if you choose

whilst they could have asked, as the creaters of the software, with permissions from the users under the T&C's they have made their choice

having used windows for decades i know you can relatively easily stop using certain aspects of the system if you don't want to, and it wouldn't be particularly hard to choose not to use alexa if you choose not to. you don't need to connect a mic, you don't need to enable your mic if it is connected, etc etc etc. it's your choice what you want to do. no one is forcing you to do anything

[Saracen999]

i don't miss your point at all. i see your point and offer my reply. you don't need to use windows 10. you aren't forced to upgrade, and you can choose to stop using windows 10 if you choose

whilst they could have asked, as the creaters of the software, with permissions from the users under the T&C's they have made their choice

having used windows for decades i know you can relatively easily stop using certain aspects of the system if you don't want to, and it wouldn't be particularly hard to choose not to use alexa if you choose not to. you don't need to connect a mic, you don't need to enable your mic if it is connected, etc etc etc. it's your choice what you want to do. no one is forcing you to do anything

Still missing the point.

I have a Win 10 system. Well currently it is. It may well go Linux.

It's a laptop, came with Windows 10 on it, but no conversational AI.

Subsequenr to that, along come MS and decide to install that capability, which by the way can be using a built-in microphone regardless of whether I want it to, or know it is doing so.

They aren't giving me a choice, other than to either have to start disabling and removing things I don't want, or to remove Win10 after I bought the device.

It's not their damned laptop. Leave it alone, Mucrosoft, or ask first..

Or, as I've said several timez, give users an easy way to, for example, completely disable and remove such mandatory "enhancements".

Any of those would constitute choice. Either asking first, or even if need be, giving an uninstall (and not just turn off) option. But they don't.

What will they install next, that I don't want? Who knows?

[Unique]

Still missing the point.

I have a Win 10 system. Well currently it is. It may well go Linux.

It's a laptop, came with Windows 10 on it, but no conversational AI.

Subsequenr to that, along come MS and decide to install that capability, which by the way can be using a built-in microphone regardless of whether I want it to, or know it is doing so.

They aren't giving me a choice, other than to either have to start disabling and removing things I don't want, or to remove Win10 after I bought the device.

It's not their damned laptop. Leave it alone, Mucrosoft, or ask first..

Or, as I've said several timez, give users an easy way to, for example, completely disable and remove such mandatory "enhancements".

Any of those would constitute choice. Either asking first, or even if need be, giving an uninstall (and not just turn off) option. But they don't.

What will they install next, that I don't want? Who knows?

well you have a number of choices, some of which you've mentioned. you don't need to install the upgrades, you can stop using it, you can change the OS, you can disable the mic. you don't even have alexa on it, so you don't know what options you will have in regards to it's operation. you choose to buy a laptop with windows 10 on it, and in doing so accepted the T&C's that allow MS to amend the software you use, as it's their software running on your pc, that you don't need to upgrade or keep on using. the ask first part came right at the start. as for being easy, that's subjective and until you have alexa you won't know how "easy" it is to disable. if you type in "microphone privacy settings" in cortana you can completely turn off the mic or grant permissions by app. it took about 3 seconds to find that. that's what i'd call easy. in addition to that you can probably disable the mic in the device manager settings or under manage sound devices you can disable the mic. it took about 3 seconds to find both of those options. that's what i call easy. but what i call easy and what someone else calls easy can be different. simply typing what you want into google will usually give instructions on how to do it if it's possible

long and short of it is you have a number of options to choose from, and some of they are easy and take seconds to do

not sure what your point is if i've not already covered it several times. you choose windows 10, they asked your permission first before you started using it (unless it was second hand and already set up), and you have the option of letting the software update or not, and it's pretty easy to do

[peterb]

<---snip if you type in "microphone privacy settings" in cortana you can completely turn off the mic or grant permissions by app. it took about 3 seconds to find that. that's what i'd call easy. in addition to that you can probably disable the mic in the device manager settings or under manage sound devices you can disable the mic. it took about 3 seconds to find both of those options. that's what i call easy. but what i call easy and what someone else calls easy can be different. snip--->

That of course presupposes that the software does what is says it does, and - arguably more importantly, can't be subverted by some malware. And that raises the question of how it is disabled. Is power removed from the device? and if so, how? Does it close down the API for the device, and how protected is that API? In reality the only way you can be certain that a microphone (or camera for that matter) is deactivated is by physically disconnecting it.

That is (of course) true for any software controlled device, regardless of the operating system.

It is possible to disable automatic updates in Windows Home Edition https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...d-974f75730552 but it is for someone not well versed in delving into services a daunting exercise. I don't know how easy it is to to updates manually after following those steps; personally I don't care As I moved away from windows after Win 8 came out and I am almost completely Windows free apart from a Win 7 machine which runs a couple of legacy applications.

[atemporal]

nope, not at all. you have the choice. no one needs to use windows 10. use windows 7 or linux or osx as alternatives for example. this is far from making choices null and void. you seem to have lost perspective on things

I disagree. You seem unable or unwilling to see the inconsistency in your own argument.

[Ttaskmaster]

nope. it's still choice regardless of the choices and whether you like them or not.

Incorrect.
The whole purpose of forced technology is to remove your other options, including forcing your alternatives off the market.

about the article, this discussion has been going on for hours or days, so the main piece is read at one point and not seen later on, or it's forgotten about as replies are made to the most recent posts. the thread title is clear, but unless you click on the link in the first article, or read the thread from the front page, you don't see the text

Like every other article-based thread on HEXUS, the link is always first post, first page.
It's not difficult to find, or anything, so I don't know what your complaint is.....