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12-core, 24-thread Ryzen 9 incoming!
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12-core, 24-thread Ryzen 9 incoming!
First thread reply :)
Long awaited and nice to get past the rumour posts and disinformation.
Thank you for the morning update Hexus. Some staff and people must have stayed up and worked hard to see this happen.
Some personal observations:
3.8GHz base and 4.6GHz - 12 cores 24 threads - 70mb cache seems like a workstation or server ideal. I like it! Good luck for AMD with the 3900X units.
I would probably choose the [edit: 3700X is $329 rrp :/ below is under 16 threads. Can manage ~4.5 GHz I guess.] ... As the "a bunch of improvements culminate in an average 15 per cent IPC improvement over what we have seen before" statement (from AMD.) shows that if I can run 16 threads at 4.3 GHz or so that may be a value proposition.
My question for Hexus is - Will these chips work in an X470 motherboard? Particularly the MSI Gaming Plus X470.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
A bunch of X470 boards are certified for 3rd Gen. Manufacturers will update their respective lists, starting today.
At 499 for the 12 core 24 threads is a really good deal for Workstations.. and the cool thing is that we all know that there is a 16 core variant out there in the world but we wont see it until the next series like Ryzen 4000 or later and it will still be compatible with X series motherboards the high end of course... but i knew we wouldn't see Ryzen at 5ghz maybe if you will be able to get another 200mhz at the most so 4.7+ if lucky... and we still don't know the all core clock boost for long periods of time... but for rendering 500 bucks is still a REALLY GOOD DEAL compare to Intel
Yes I did post some silly speculation on 5+ghz 32 thread in a discussion a few days ago - sorry about this - reading too many iffy articles I guess. Curse of the 'net.
Another question for readers and perhaps Hexus - I have a B350 Gaming Plus from MSI too which has been really good after AGESA updates were deployed and perfectly good while it does have 1 or 2 PCI slots and 4 sata. Is this chipset series going to be Ryzen 3nnn compatible for us too? I saw a rumour that it may not (though it is 2nnn series compatible I believe).
I also have a smaller B450 board that I would expect over the next few months could be updated to a 3700(X) compatability status. It's an Asrock #B450M-HDV. I have a spare 2 series APU to do updates.
Why my rented flat is turning into a parts garage - I have no explanation so - good morning readers : ]
No 3600X listed for July? I guess that performance level is already catered for in the existing 2800X chips and they can use working core chiplets in the 12 core parts, but 6 cores is where I was expecting to buy. I guess that leaves me a choice, I could get a 2600X whilst they are cheap, or stump up for an 8 core Zen 2.
Edit:
Compatibility seems down to BIOS and power delivery rather than chipset. Some boards are dropping support for the old APUs like the A10-9800 to make BIOS space for the new CPU support, seems a decent trade. Cheaper boards may not handle the higher power requirement of a 12 core chip, but you probably wouldn't pair those together anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium
Thanks, DanceswithUnix (and nice to be in touch after some months!)
On your first point, I would wait for the 3600(x) part based on AMD stating a 15% potential IPC improvement [presumably over Zen 2!]. We would have to wait for ES or reliable MIPS tests - AMD is not as marketing led as their competitor might be them so I expect we could see a 10%+ average IPC improvement over the Zen 2 thread per thread. Worth waiting for most of us I think.
Thank you for your second answer and honestly I would not expect MSI to release a 2019 bios for my B350 board. Perhaps someone will make it work sometime in the future. 2 spare unused boards gives me pause. We shall see - perhaps Asus Gigabyte will update some high end B350 boards and that and some support email traffic might prod MSI into an update for their venerable B350 Plus boards.
I'll be eyeing up that 3700X.
This is the really important bit:
"...with Intel based on a more expensive platform - in both single- and multi-threaded tests while consuming a fair bit less power."
There's not that much difference in stock clocks, really looking forward to the independent reviews.
I wonder if there are any drawbacks associated with the dual chiplet layout of the 3900X? *If* the 3800X is a single chiplet design it might explain why they push that one as a gaming halo product instead. And I hope that they stick to a consistent layout for each model number - I don't want there to be a situation where reviewers get one layout but in retail it's a lucky dip...
Point well made, it could mean inter core access latencies may be different depending on chiplet layouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalniel
But that depends on howmuch inter core access really happens, it used tonhappen a lot on the Zen/+ series because of CCX based memory controller access which trashed memory latency sensitive applications.
But if they've homogenised how each individual core is accessed it won't matter if it's 1 core per 8 CCXes or 8 cores for 1. We'll know more once people like at STH and L1tech get their hands on.
It's likely R7 is just the marketing target for top end gaming that's all rather than capability limitations.
I may have just found my next motherboard, the ASUS PRO WS X570-ACE (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/). ECC support, which is a must-have for me, is a headlining feature. Now to find out which Ryzen 3000 series processor to pair it with... :)
Update: Well, I may have been a bit too quick. Seems like this board is also actively cooled. That's really a no-go for me. Hopefully, a similar board comes along without active cooling.
You can put a 3k cpu into an old x370 or x470 mobo. Except you can't put a 1000 series cpu into a x570 mobo. This is the very thing I wanted to do. AMD pulled an Intel after all.
Oh myy!
I have a Xeon 6134 and was quite disappointed with full 6-channel memory speeds, so curious how well Rome will perform.
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korrorra
I can't see any indication that first gen cpus are not supported on 3rd gen boards. There is a stickler that 3rd gen CPUs will not be supported on 1st gen boards in most cases.
This is what it means right? Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/255956/a...n-x570-chipset
https://www.techpowerup.com/img/ox9T8jbLhY3AgOKu.jpg
Yeah, I've just seen that myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korrorra
I wouldn't go as far as you and say they've done an Intel but I'd like to know if it was just due to BIOS storage limitations or other reasons. If that is the case then they haven't done an Intel, they could just be pulling a Howard Stark: "limited by the technology of my time". But considering most if not all CPUs are supported on 2nd gen boards both on 1st and 3rd gen CPUs it doesn't sit quite right with me.
Jesus, we really need something better than the current BIOS memory system.
Interesting diagram, but some A320 boards have had 3000 series BIOS support which is also unsupported accorting to that chart, I wouldn't be surprised if some vendors ignore that chart and make 570 boards compatible with older CPUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korrorra
To be really fair I can't see the old processors not being supported on new motherboards as a big deal. The product stack has moved down a fair bit in terms of ipc and ppw so just sell it as is and buy new. If you were based on Intel you'd have to do that anyhoo. Also why would you buy a brand new mobo in the X570 class to support a 2 year old cpu? Get an X470 it will do everything you wish and support most of the next gen features
Why does nobody seem to care that AMD has just trumped Intel in nearly every way, gen 4 connectivity, ipc, ppw and cost are all on AMD's side now.
Oh I care, I'll want to see actual benchmarks before spending but fully expect one of these to fill the AM4 socket on my 470 motherboard soon after release.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandy
Yup Dances matey - just seems a bit meh from the regulars. Could be a real game changer this year from AMD. Oodles of bandwidth as well, a nice cheap(ish) nvme m.2 ssd will be way faster on the AMD platform than the Intel platform. More cores and more threads for the same given price point as well
Absolutely love this aspect but i want to see independent reviews before i pop open the second bottle of Champagne. Just usual cynicism about tech in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandy
For once though does not the gen4 support meaning a huge increase in bandwidth mean you're interested? For me, in general computing terms, this would make the biggest difference to making my work system buttery smooth and responsiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
The doubling of Bandwidth for PCIe is a real cherry on top and will make for whole new generations of workstations that can brutalise expansion IO and compute resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandy
This doesn't excite me as much for the consumer, it does for HEDT but i fell on the floor convulsing for what it means for EPYC.
Any idea when the RX 5000 series reviews could come out?
Embargo dates probably lift 2nd-7th July. Preorders start on 2nd and release is 7th.Quote:
Originally Posted by Queelis
Out of curiosity, why do you want to do that? What does X570 offer that X470 doesn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korrorra
More interesting news in the CPU world!
I just hope they release a decent mATX board as there are hardly any good choices at the moment whilst ATX and even enthusiast ITX boards are plentiful.
I'm personally eyeing up the Ryzen 7 3700X myself as the 3800X doesn't seem to offer much more than the 3700X. What I would be interested in seeing is the price of a none-X 3700 and seeing how that compares in stock and how well it can overclock.
I was so tempted to get the Ryzen 7 2700 for £156 from box a few weeks ago but stopped myself as there was really no point in doing that sidegrade.
A very interesting point is the claim to be ahead of Intel on single threaded Cinebench despite considerably lower clocks! Throwing only multithreaded results at the press would have been one thing given AMD seemingly have better SMT efficiency, but here, Zen2 @4.5GHz is ahead of Skylake @5.0GHz. Likewise 4.4 vs 4.9 but with lower power draw.
That 3700X does indeed look very tempting!
The one thing I can't see is a direct comparison of gaming performance, Zen2 vs Skylake. They have shown vs Zen1 which I guess we could extrapolate from.
Also, as mentioned above, it will be interesting to see how the multiple chiplet layout behaves.
Bit of an anticlimax for me, most of what they announced was already strongly suspected and the release is four weeks later than i was hoping.
Just a quick one, GTA V is one of the more CPU-bound and Intel-weighted games that comes to mind so to use that as a reference point, AMD claim 14% better performance for the 3800X over the 2700X. Going from Anandtech's 9900k benchmark (which AFAIK hasn't been back-dated with the latest round of speculative execution patches which may or may not impact Intel's performance slightly):
9900k and 9700k get roughly 160fps.
2700X gets roughly 135
Hypothetical 3800X (2700X+14%) gets ~154fps.
Not bad given it's not the top clocked or priced CPU* and patches may knock down Intel's performance a bit.
*Though it remains to be seen how the 2-chiplet design performs in games of course, so I'm not extrapolating any further.
While I had been hoping to see the 16-core variant that was rumoured, that not being the case (or at least not yet anyway) is understandable.
As such, I've definitely got my eye on the 3900X.
All in all, some very interesting reveals.
The leaks matched expectations and only was a month behind your expectation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky34
You must be great to buy for for your birthday and Christmas :P
Edit: well, matched somewhat, clocks are a little lower than expected
I'll be looking to the 3800X as a replacement for the my 1700. May wait a few months for the prices to drop though.
3900X is definitely on the 'want one' list, also.
IMO looking at clocks for a new microarchitecture is a bit pointless anyway, it's an almost meaningless value without context. E.g. at least in AMD's Cinebench results, it's roughly matching or beating Skylake@5.0GHz, just likely without the power/heat penalty of having to clock that high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
Oh yes, sorry, i was not intending to cast a negative. If AMD can match Skylake at 5GHz but with lower clocks that can only mean the IPC is even higher which means the Engineers should get an extra cookie with their coffee in the morning for a while!Quote:
Originally Posted by watercooled
IPC improvements look very promising. I can't wait to see some proper independant reviews! I couldn't personally justify spending more than what the 3700X looks to be going for, so that would likely be of most interest to me for now, although perhaps a few months down the line, the 3800X might have better pricing. The 3900X is the most desirable option with 12 cores, but the price is far above what I would be willing to realistically pay.
Yeah that wasn't intended as a response to yourself, but I've already seen a few places around the net claiming disappointment that it's 'not beating Intel's 5GHz'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
Shame would have liked to have seen a 'consumer' 16/32 ryzen 3 over a 12/24 but I suppose that's being kept for later or being deliberately kept off the list to make us buy threadripper with the increased cost.
I wasn't so much talking about leaks but AMD basically just repeated what they've said in the past about the increased FP + Integer and larger cache.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
I was expecting them to divulge something new and apart from the clock speeds that i was fairly sure the leakers were way off on, i always expected around a 200-400Mhz clock speed bump over Zen+ so the 4.6Ghz was a little under where i was expecting the maximum to be.
IDK i was just expecting something new, something that wasn't on this list of changes from Zen+ that they've previously talked about in tech days, horizon events, and financial analysis days.
And people wouldn't dare buy me something for a Bday or Xmas. :devilish:
Well it's exactly the same cores in EPYC as it is in Zen. Sounds like you set yourself uo for disappointment :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Corky34
I wouldn't say i was disappointed, as i said it was more an anticlimax as i was expecting something 'new', something like if XFR has been tweaked, more info on that I/O die, etc, etc. I guess I'll have to wait until until they divulge a few more details as this seem more like them firing the starting gun for the hype train. :)
While I like the look of the top end, was there any news about Zen2 chips with graphics? I'd be interested to see if they come with Navi, more than interested.
Nothing yet :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Iota
I can\'t wait to see if the graohics are chiplet based then it could be really exciting for next gen APUs
I can see chiplet graphics coming in real handy with the next-gen console design - cheaper silicon means they\'ll be able to squeeze more CUs in.
Aye but it's the platform and added extras that mean a lot to me. And that rumoured $99 for a 6c12t part is super exciting as for me that would be a great part in my music pc at that price pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Corky34
My thoughts exactly... also for a high end Navi gfx partQuote:
Originally Posted by Xlucine
Just to update a previous post, AMD did actually show a game benchmark vs Intel in their CES talk, running PUBG comparing 9900k and 3800X - the 3800X being on-par or very slightly ahead.
https://youtu.be/_96stDCb-mk?t=1h2m12s
So with Intel saying how hyperthreading was so good but now saying with the latest security hole that it doesn't make that much difference and to turn it off.....
....and then you get THIS.
I expect the 16 core has been held back to use if Intel responds.... y'know, how competition really should work.
I've just bought more DDR3 RAM but this is really making me think I may gut the thing and start from scratch, retaining only the GPU and PSU. The latest Windows update has brought a lot of jerking in games and I can't figure out why. Has Intel / MS patched yet another security hole that has crippled my CPU? Perhaps so.
The PCI-e 4.0 interface also sounds like it'd make for a worthy SSD upgrade.
Windows is not well geared up to compensate for AMD for Intel's hardware disasters. Here is a previous post from about 5 days ago. This has really improved my AMD 1600 Ryzen responsiveness (as did the last B350 bios update!) I have not updated Windows 10 for some months with the connection set to Metered.
https://forums.hexus.net/software/40...ml#post4098761
Which update messed with your responsiveness? Was it in the last 2 days? You can remove KB updates with the instructions in the link above (be careful to remove security sensitive thing ).Quote:
As someone with a Ryzen 1 system on a B350 this has helped my system performance immensely (I haven't launched Nox yet but I link their website).
The computer is back to normal. I do not think the KB article was related to micro coded with AMD processory complete.
.... @@
https://www.bignox.com/blog/uninstal...u-performance/
In case anyone missed it - there is a 3600X and 3600 in july, with the X model at 4.4/3.8 GHz, 95 W and $250; and the non-X at 4.2/3.6 GHz, 65 W and $200
https://hexus.net/tech/items/cpu/131...ship-products/
Still not sure which is going to replace my 1200
The Navi Radeons should be sensibly priced, if they're going to try and compete with the 2060 and 2070.
Where is moderator??
It is about advertisement on your website.
Thank.