Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,709
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,073 times in 719 posts

    Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    USB co-inventor Ajay Bhatt says that design was constricted due to PC maker cost worries.
    Read more.

  2. Received thanks from:

    Mr_Jon (25-06-2019)

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Where you are not
    Posts
    1,331
    Thanks
    611
    Thanked
    103 times in 90 posts
    • Iota's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Hero XI
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i9 9900KF
      • Memory:
      • CMD32GX4M2C3200C16
      • Storage:
      • 1 x 1TB / 3 x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia RTX 3090 Founders Edition
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX1200i
      • Case:
      • Corsair Obsidian 500D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung Odyssey G9
      • Internet:
      • 500Mbps BT FTTH

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    many expletives have been emitted due to the single-orientation rectangular port design. There is a popular IT enthusiast anecdote that getting a USB Type-A connector plugged in round the back of a PC or similar will take three attempts - after giving up the first fumbled attempt, turning it 180 degrees becomes clearly evident that one should have persevered earlier, and then it will pop in easily when you switch back…


    Have you got secret cameras in my house? This was me on Sunday...

  4. #3
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    "There is a popular IT enthusiast anecdote that getting a USB Type-A connector plugged in round the back of a PC or similar will take three attempts - after giving up the first fumbled attempt, turning it 180 degrees becomes clearly evident that one should have persevered earlier, and then it will pop in easily when you switch back…"

    Hardly anecdotal. It's almost certainly true!

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    227
    Thanks
    70
    Thanked
    34 times in 22 posts

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Clearly the original Type-A connectors are four-dimensional in order to require three attempts at plugging in. Doesn't seem much like cost-cutting to me!

  6. Received thanks from:

    peterb (25-06-2019),Pleiades (25-06-2019)

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    400
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked
    46 times in 39 posts
    • iworrall's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus B350M TUF Gaming
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 2700X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB C14 Team Group "Dark Pro"
      • Storage:
      • 512Gb Samsung 970 Evo NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia RTX3080 FE
      • PSU:
      • BeQuiet 1KW
      • Case:
      • Thermaltake Core V21
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 / Kubuntu 19.04
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer Predator X34A
      • Internet:
      • Sky Fibre

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    USB-A connectors are a perfect example of Schrödinger's cable.

    It doesn't matter if you look at both plug and socket before attempting to connect, the plug will instantly reverse itself on contact with the socket.

  8. Received thanks from:

    Pleiades (25-06-2019)

  9. #6
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    52
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Ajay Bhatt is a sheep, not doing reversable usb cable from begining because of what cost, like 1 cent extra. He so cheap he crys when he's taking a dump.

  10. #7
    DDY
    DDY is online now
    Senior Member DDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,844
    Thanks
    185
    Thanked
    631 times in 436 posts
    • DDY's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASRock Z390M Pro 4
      • CPU:
      • i5 9600k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB (2x16GB) 3600MHz
      • Storage:
      • Adata SX8200 NVME 1TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • RX 5700
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 550W
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2715H

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by fynxer View Post
    Ajay Bhatt is a sheep, not doing reversable usb cable from begining because of what cost, like 1 cent extra. He so cheap he crys when he's taking a dump.
    I think you've missed the point here.

    Engineers don't get to make these project decisions, such as whether it's worth spending another cent on additional functionality.

    Engineers of course have to inform the project stakeholders why having certain features like a reversible USB type-A plug is worth the extra cent, but ultimately the call isn't theirs to make.

    The article describes how Ajay Bhatt regrets not making a bigger fuss and influencing on the decision that lead to USB being what it is.

    I think it's very unfair to call Ajay Bhatt the names you did.

    As an engineer myself, I know how it feels when project stakeholders make decisions contrary to my recommendations, and throwing good intentions and sometimes months of work in the bin.

  11. Received thanks from:

    quatermass (25-06-2019),Xlucine (25-06-2019)

  12. #8
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by DDY View Post
    As an engineer myself, I know how it feels when project stakeholders make decisions contrary to my recommendations, and throwing good intentions and sometimes months of work in the bin.
    The road to hell is paved in managerial disregard for engineer recommendations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  13. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Where you are not
    Posts
    1,331
    Thanks
    611
    Thanked
    103 times in 90 posts
    • Iota's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Hero XI
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i9 9900KF
      • Memory:
      • CMD32GX4M2C3200C16
      • Storage:
      • 1 x 1TB / 3 x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia RTX 3090 Founders Edition
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX1200i
      • Case:
      • Corsair Obsidian 500D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung Odyssey G9
      • Internet:
      • 500Mbps BT FTTH

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    The road to hell is paved in managerial disregard for engineer recommendations.
    You could replace "engineer" with pretty much any job role to be fair.

  14. Received thanks from:

    aidanjt (25-06-2019)

  15. #10
    Missed by us all - RIP old boy spacein_vader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Darkest Northamptonshire
    Posts
    2,015
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked
    1,086 times in 410 posts
    • spacein_vader's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 5 3600
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Patriot Steel DDR4 3600mhz
      • Storage:
      • 1tb Sabrent Rocket NVMe (boot), 500GB Crucial MX100, 1TB Crucial MX200
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte Radeon RX5700 Gaming OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX 520W modular
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Meshify C
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • BenQ GW2765, Dell Ultrasharp U2412
      • Internet:
      • Zen Internet

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    The road to hell is paved in managerial disregard for engineer recommendations.
    There's a balance to be struck. Leave it entirely to engineers and you may never ship a product. Or (one for tank nerds,) you end up with a TOG2.

  16. #11
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    28
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts

    Wink Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Easy enough to buy a reversible USB type A or a USB Micro B these days.

    People don't know they're available...?

  17. #12
    Senior Member Xlucine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,162
    Thanks
    298
    Thanked
    188 times in 147 posts
    • Xlucine's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus prime B650M-A II
      • CPU:
      • 7900
      • Memory:
      • 32GB @ 4.8 Gt/s (don't want to wait for memory training)
      • Storage:
      • Crucial P5+ 2TB (boot), Crucial P5 1TB, Crucial MX500 1TB, Crucial MX100 512GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Dual 4070 w/ shroud mod
      • PSU:
      • Fractal Design ION+ 560P
      • Case:
      • Silverstone TJ08-E
      • Operating System:
      • W10 pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Viewsonic vx3211-2k-mhd, Dell P2414H
      • Internet:
      • Gigabit symmetrical

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    There's a balance to be struck. Leave it entirely to engineers and you may never ship a product. Or (one for tank nerds,) you end up with a TOG2.
    That failed due to the old gang deciding what requirements to design to (and setting those requirements based on what they were comfortable designing, while ignoring the reality on the ground) - not really good engineering

  18. #13
    Missed by us all - RIP old boy spacein_vader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Darkest Northamptonshire
    Posts
    2,015
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked
    1,086 times in 410 posts
    • spacein_vader's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 5 3600
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Patriot Steel DDR4 3600mhz
      • Storage:
      • 1tb Sabrent Rocket NVMe (boot), 500GB Crucial MX100, 1TB Crucial MX200
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte Radeon RX5700 Gaming OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX 520W modular
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Meshify C
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • BenQ GW2765, Dell Ultrasharp U2412
      • Internet:
      • Zen Internet

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    That failed due to the old gang deciding what requirements to design to (and setting those requirements based on what they were comfortable designing, while ignoring the reality on the ground) - not really good engineering
    That's my point. It shows that you need non-engineer input into deciding the requirements and signing off on the completed product at the end.

  19. #14
    I'm special azrael-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Posts
    1,074
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked
    113 times in 92 posts
    • azrael-'s system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Prime X470-Pro
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
      • Memory:
      • 64 GB ECC DDR4 2666 MHz (Samsung M391A2K43BB1-CTD)
      • Storage:
      • 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus, 1 TB Samsung 850 EVO, 12 TB WD HDDs
      • Graphics card(s):
      • eVGA GTX 1080 SC Gaming, 8 GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic X-Series 560W
      • Case:
      • Corsair Obsidian 550D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Acer Predator XB271HU
      • Internet:
      • VDSL 55/12 Mbit/s

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by DerbyDave View Post
    "There is a popular IT enthusiast anecdote that getting a USB Type-A connector plugged in round the back of a PC or similar will take three attempts - after giving up the first fumbled attempt, turning it 180 degrees becomes clearly evident that one should have persevered earlier, and then it will pop in easily when you switch back…"

    Hardly anecdotal. It's almost certainly true!

  20. Received thanks from:

    chinf (27-06-2019),peterb (26-06-2019)

  21. #15
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,185
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked
    3,179 times in 1,926 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Quote Originally Posted by fynxer View Post
    Ajay Bhatt is a sheep, not doing reversable usb cable from begining because of what cost, like 1 cent extra. He so cheap he crys when he's taking a dump.
    Bit harsh, everything we deal with in life is cost based.

    What have you invented that changed the world? We look forward to the list. If it so much as scratches the surface of the genius is USB, I will be astounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  22. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    117
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    3 times in 3 posts

    Re: Original USB plug design was non-reversible due to cost

    Being a bit harsh on Bhatt there. As an engineer I come up with the cost cutters all the time. I deal more in one offs rather than millions off. With USB A it must be billions and every cent saved adds up. If you as a Dell or HP can save a cent on each USB port on a PC then it amounts to $100,000's a year to the bottom line.
    As a one off recently we spent £16,500 repairing something we had spend over £30,000 repairing in the last 18 months. A new, smaller, more efficient one, with a 36 month support warranty would have been £20,000. It failed again last week, another £6,000. You can kick an accountant in the bo**ocks until you are blue in the face, but they will always go the least cost route. Unfortunately the plant can always be repaired, it does not fully fail so that it has to be renewed.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •