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But Gaming Monitor sales have grown by 48.6 per cent in the same period.
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But Gaming Monitor sales have grown by 48.6 per cent in the same period.
Now you can skip many generations of hardware it should prompt the prices to drop *in my dreams*
AAA games are fairly toxic these days and I wonder if we will ever recover after the Crypto mining madness. Once people started paying crazy prices, the manufacturers started to charge crazy prices and I think that's brought us to where we are now a downward spiral.
Is it just me that doesn't get the bit about cheaper graphics cards? If GPUs are cheaper and you need a system refresh, then your system refresh will be cheaper because it includes a cheap GPU. So if price was an issue (it never seems to be) then it should help system sales. If price isn't an issue, then cheaper GPUs aren't relevant to system sales.
OTOH, if you *don't* see the need for a system refresh, then you won't get one. With nothing that new or interesting out, I expect this is most people.
If you are waiting for Zen 2, you won't get a new PC *yet*.
Speaking as someone who just upgraded the GPU in my son's PC because RX 570 is just so cheap atm (and I'm taking a punt that Navi won't be introduced down at that price level for ages), and am waiting for Zen 2 CPUs to get released before upgrading my PC it feels like these people have completely misread my purchasing motivations.
I bet there's a lot of people waiting for new architectures, with Zen 2, Intel not really putting out anything new and exciting, and NVidia putting a serious squeeze on people's wallets with it's high end. I'll bet there will be a major bump after Zen 2 CPUs are released.
Crypto mining might get more popular again, with popular currencies gaining value again. (Bitcoin's bback up to over $12K US. It's not the 18K it was, but it's way more than the 6K it dropped down to.)
I would hope that GPU mining is gone though.Quote:
Originally Posted by globalwarning
There was a reduction in GPU pricing? When was this? :-(Quote:
Taken in turn, the reduction in prices of a range of AMD and Nvidia GPUs in the wake of the crypto-crash was well covered in news articles previously. Late last year Nvidia was already attributing the 'crypto hangover' for its financial forecast woes. With a large amount of unsold stocks of mainly mid-range GPUs, Nvidia and AMD (and partners) have had to steadily reduce their pricing to catch customer eyeballs. The availability of these better value graphics cards has prompted consumers to upgrade their desktops rather than do a full system upgrade. Secondly, most people are well aware of the "macroeconomic headwinds," at this time, as people wonder if we are nearing another painful recession, as per 2008, but with nationalist politics 'borders not business' rather than bankers to blame this time around.
A crazy increase in pricing for Crypto and then a reduction back down to (still quite) above what was there beforehand is not a reduction; that's still an increase overall. *coughs in 2080Super * excuse me, bad cough there.
On that first para, while your logic is sound, I suspect that a factor is that a couple of hundred for a 'bargain' GPU is, for many people, pretty much an impulse purchase whereas £1k to £2k for a full "gaming" PC is much more a considered purchase.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix
Putting that another way, £50 off a £250 purchase may well be enough to trigger a 'buy now' decision, whereas that same £50 off a £1500 PC is rather more "ho'hum, whatever" and would have minimal impact.
I remember spec'ing out a new car that was going to cost me quite a bit, and given the total bill, I thought "well, it's only £1500 for leather interior, and only £1000 for those really nice alloys, and I'm already spending £xK, so what the hell?"
But if I'd bought the car without the leather and fancy wheels and 3 months later the dealer had offered me both upgrades for "only" £2500 I'd have looked at him like he'd lost the plot. .... "Do I look like the kind of idiot that woull spend £2500 on wheels and leather seats" I'd have asked ... when clearly I am, 'cos I did.
And they were a bargain compared to the in-car sound system. ;)
IMHO, the psychology of the two situations is different.
I don't think I explained that well. It sounds to me like they are saying that low GPU prices are putting people off buying a new PC. I can see it as either a "ho-hum" where it probably won't increase the chance to buy much, or flat out irrelevant. What I'm struggling with is how you get to "GPU prices are too low, I won't buy a PC".Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
And yes, I can see lower GPU prices helping GPU upgrade sales. For me seeing an RX 570 for £125 was the tipping point. Could I have upgraded the entire system? Yes, and there is a valid case for upgrading that old Xeon based system, but not just before a new CPU release.
The only thing I can think of is the impulse bit. When GPU prices are high, it deters impulse buying, but when they start to look (relatively, at least) like bargains, a proportion of buyers may impulse buy a card, as opposed to a considered whole system purchase. A bit like it sounds like you did, which sounds like the RX570 at £125 was just too much of a bargain to miss (and I agree, by the way) but the result is where you might have system-replaced, you just got a good chunk of the improved performance by a bargain GPU upgrade, and deferred or cancelled a system upgrade or even new PC.
After all, especially with older machines, there comes a point where piecemeal upgrades don't really cut it, because you need to upgrade all core components (mobo, CPU, cooler, GPU, ststem ram and hell, storage too) and you pretty much have bought a new PC. But then, along comes a £125 GPU and you think to yourself .... "Y'know what that'll do. At that price it's a no-brainer and I'll get another year or rwo out of the old machine".
I think that's the logic they're suggesting .... a new bargain GPU defers what otherwise might be a new PC. That is, a kind of displacememr purchase.
As a current gaming laptop owner, I brought my slimline 1060 6gb in early 2017 and truth is nothing has touched it since really. Either bulky or no major improvement worth the upgrade/price. I'm using a 120hz screen atm but I'm tempted with the 144hz screens. For gaming though, its definetely better to have a desktop as these gaming laptops are toasters if you tried to use on your lap you could cause SERIOUS damage.
I'm assuming that desktop shipments refer to pre-built PCs only. If that's the case, it's entirely possible that it's simply the growth of the DIY market which has eaten into the pre-built desktop market.
Yes I think that is what they are suggesting as well, I just think they are wrong :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
There are clearly two trends here. Fewer people are buying PCs, and more people are buying graphics cards. So they must be related? No, correlation is not causation:
https://churchoftheflyingspaghettimo...12/pchart1.jpg
To be honest, I'm not sure either way. I'm more suggesting what they appear to mean than whether they're right. My suspicion, and it's no more than that, is that the reality is a blend of what they're suggesting and what you think, and I don't have much of a feel for which way the see-saw is tilting. So I certainly won't disagree with whether you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix
Yeeeees ..... but ..... go on, admit it, you knew there was a "but" coming, didn't you? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix
So ... but, I think what we have is two different trends that aren't contradictory, because they're largely two different sets of consumers.
Yes, fewer people are buying PCs. But why? Think about the causation of that.
And yes, more people are buying graphics cards. But, again, why?
The long-term downward trend in PC buying is, I believe, due to a number of factors. Among them :-
- near ubiquitous possession and use of mobile phones
- the maturity of laptops into devices powerful enough for many purposes
- the stage of the development cycle of PCs.
On that latter point is probably the biggest cause. Ever since the first IBM PC, PC power levels have been in an arms race with what we could do with them. You know the story - my PC is powerful enough to do that (whatever 'that' is, be it DTP, CAD, photo editing, video editing, voice dictation, ray-tracing, ever-more realistic gaming, and so on), but it's not powerful enough to do it effortlessly. But the next upgrade .... ;)
It varies for each of us, according to our needs, but we all either have reached or are reaching the point where our PCs can, well, basically cope with pretty much anything we need them to do. Mine reached that point sone years ago. It does my voice dictation, it's amply powerful enough for my sound editing needs, for my Photoshop needs, etc, and for my Office/business needs .... it just eats that for breakfast and doesn't even burp. And I'm not the gaming nut I once was, largely due to Steam, DRM issues, etc.
So, long term .... the trend is to upgrade less often, which with those other two factors accounts for the now well-established reduction in PC buying. The product is, fundamentally, at the 'mature' phase of it's technology life-cycle and, due to tablets and phones, is being superceded in some of it's previous uses.
However, within that long-term downward trend and reducing need for upgrades (because the existing PC just copes) there is still a proportion either replacing failed kit, or with needs that still do fall into that category of "my PC does it, just about, but a new/upgraded PC will do it mhch better/faster" and that, IMHO, is where the buyers bucking the trend are coming from.
With that group, I think my previous comments about the effect of a change in graphics carx value-for-money is making the difference in buying decisions.
On that, we are in absolute, complete, about a gazzillion percent, violent agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix
That is a point I often make, usually to politicians talking on the TV, and usually preceded by "No, you utter muppet, causation ..... etc".
And despite the fact that I've told the TV that so many times, those politicians never seem to listen. What is it with these richard-bonces anyway?
But more seriously, when trying to establish causation and not just correlation, we need to be sure we're tslking about comparable, or preferably identical, populations. Here, I think the graphics-card buying population is a distinctive subset of the PC-buying population and that there are factors (like dedication to gaming) that differentiates that subset from the downward trend of the larger, inclusive PC-buying trend.
We have, in effect, two trends and the determining factors in that subset are enough to, at least short-term, have them defying the long-term trend of the overall population.
It's not an uncommon phenomenon, either. Any economist ought to be aware of it. Populations are segmented. There will be over-arching trends, but within that, multiple sub-trends and sometimes, contradictory ones. For example, how do the rich, poor and middle-incomes react to a tax cbange, or interest rate rise, or recession? An interest rate rise that devastates someone who can only just pay their mortgage will perhaps cause no more that a modest belt-tightening in middle-incomes, and is to the rich, well .... either utterly inconsequential or perhaps even an investment opportunity.
Same overall population, but a single event can cause multiple and even opposing reactions in sub-populations. And there is causation in both. The tricky bit is identifying it.
toxic corporate gaming industry + toxic corporate GPU / CPU hardware industry and that's what you get eventually.
i just checked my amazon history and compared some prices between 2017-19 and guess what?
What are you expecting? Charity? From America? :lol: :secret:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonister