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Thread: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

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    France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    "France is sovereign, and France decides its own tax rules," finance minister signals to USA.
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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Well, frankly, and at leadt on this issue ... Vive La France.

    About hleeping time, and why aren't we doing it?

    If Trump diesn't like it, pull yer finger out and get international agreement by the utterly hopeless international ability to get fair taxation on these massive companies using tax laws to heavily mitigate taxes from fair, to minimal.

    Note: I blame national givernments, not the FANG(AM) et.al. for having tax rules/laws (and the out of date double-tax treaties) that allow this sort of tax manipulation, not the companies for following the law. Which is exactly why I say Vive La France.

    Oh, and re: Trump's rhetoric ....
    Quote Originally Posted by France's Finance Minister
    France is sovereign, and France decides its own tax rules. And this will continue to be the case,
    Indeed. And may the rest of the EU, including us, do likewise. Don't leave France hanging in the wind on their own.

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Amazon want pay the tax, it will be the people buying from Amazon.

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Agreed Saracen999. No idea why Trumps that bothered. Its not as if this cash ever makes it to the US tax coffers. Most of it just ends up in the Cayman Island or some other tax haven. Hope we do the same.
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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    France is sovereign, and France decides its own tax rules.
    Frexit anyone?

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Frexit anyone?
    Gut reaction? Oh God, no. One is bad enough.

    2nd Reaction? France? Not a chance.

    3rd Reaction? The French finance minister's "sovereignty" makes the point - this is a national government "competence", not an EU one. Not yet, anyway. So individual governments of EU states, or even European states could work in harmony to do this, but it isn't an EU issue. Yet.

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by tparmenter View Post
    Amazon want pay the tax, it will be the people buying from Amazon.
    Ahem... I think you'll find that's "L'amazon"... it's French, you know!!

    Hurrah for France and yah-boo-sucks to you, Trumpy!!
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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    stupid.

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by will19565 View Post
    stupid.
    France, - Amazon or Google - and why?


    Quote Originally Posted by tparmenter View Post
    Amazon want pay the tax, it will be the people buying from Amazon.
    Amazon have some choicees:

    They could ignore it, but that would probably lead to a court case and a large fine.

    They can psss the costs onto the customer - the amount would be fairly Small given the size of their customer base.

    They could pass the cost on to French customers only, but that could be seen as discrimiory and incur the wrath of the European Commission. It might make them less competitive.

    They could choose to absorb the cost out of their profit margin

    They could just stop trading in France, and refuse to ship products ordered through one of their other websites to a French address.

    Most of those options will affect customers (unless they absorb the cost) although not necessarily financially.
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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by tparmenter View Post
    Amazon want pay the tax, it will be the people buying from Amazon.
    That is *exactly* the point. If anyone thinks, for even one second, that Amazon, Google etc. will pay this tax out of their own pockets they're sorely mistaken. This will get dumped right on the customer ...as always.

    As it stands, every customer, regardless if they live in France or not, will probably "help finance" said tax. It's just easier that way.

    But hey... it makes a great news bite and photo op.

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by tparmenter View Post
    Amazon want pay the tax, it will be the people buying from Amazon.
    Quote Originally Posted by azrael- View Post
    That is *exactly* the point. If anyone thinks, for even one second, that Amazon, Google etc. will pay this tax out of their own pockets they're sorely mistaken. This will get dumped right on the customer ...as always.

    As it stands, every customer, regardless if they live in France or not, will probably "help finance" said tax. It's just easier that way.

    But hey... it makes a great news bite and photo op.
    I think you're both kind of missing the point. Yes, in all likelihood that since this is a tax on sales, they will simply add it to the price of products sold. Much like VAT is added in the UK. That is what is desired. Amazon have an unfair advantage over domestic companies with their international tax arrangements allowing them to sell products at the same price and make more net profit or to sell products at a lower price and make the same net profit. Simply slapping a 3% tax on all of their french sales goes some way to leveling the playing field. This isn't about making things cheaper and/or more fair for consumers. It's about making competition between Amazon and French companies more level.

    It's not a perfect solution but there is no perfect solution. Personally I think it's a good start.
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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    I think you're both kind of missing the point. Yes, in all likelihood that since this is a tax on sales, they will simply add it to the price of products sold. Much like VAT is added in the UK. That is what is desired. Amazon have an unfair advantage over domestic companies with their international tax arrangements allowing them to sell products at the same price and make more net profit or to sell products at a lower price and make the same net profit. Simply slapping a 3% tax on all of their french sales goes some way to leveling the playing field. This isn't about making things cheaper and/or more fair for consumers. It's about making competition between Amazon and French companies more level.

    It's not a perfect solution but there is no perfect solution. Personally I think it's a good start.
    I'm not convinced it is about competition with French companies at all. Which french company is competing with Google, Netflix, Facebook, etc?

    I think what it's about is that tech-sector giants are seen, correctly, as not bearing their fair share of the burden of taxation compared to other sectors, not to each other.

    It's about fairness at a fundamental level, not about competitiveness and, to be blunt, not about whether it puts up consumer prices.

    The state has to provide all sorts of services, from warships to dustcarts, and someone has to pay for it. And ultimately, whatever the mechanism, that means people, citizens, consumers .... which are all pretty much the same thing.

    I saw one set of figures suggesting that the overall tax burden on companies in France is about 23%, but inside the giants in the tech sector, it's more like 8% or 9%. And that is the unfairness - that unlike everybody else in the business world, tech giants are operating in France (like here) and not making a "fair" contribution towards the cost of government providing services to those same citizens the FANG's are making huge profits from.

    Will consumer prices go up? Will competitive pressures keep the steady and force the FANG's to finance this?

    I don't think government cares.

    What they care about is getting their fair slice because that is what pays for services. Will consumers eat price rises? Probably. But they already do in just about every other sector, so why not the tech giants?

    If consumers object to resultant price rises, it brings up to a long-standing political conundrum ..... most people want Rolls Royce public services, but don't want to pay for them. The world doesn't work like that.
    Last edited by Saracen999; 15-07-2019 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Tpyo's

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    Re: France will levy 3 per cent digital tax on likes of Amazon, Google

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    I think you're both kind of missing the point. Yes, in all likelihood that since this is a tax on sales, they will simply add it to the price of products sold. Much like VAT is added in the UK. That is what is desired. Amazon have an unfair advantage over domestic companies with their international tax arrangements allowing them to sell products at the same price and make more net profit or to sell products at a lower price and make the same net profit. Simply slapping a 3% tax on all of their french sales goes some way to leveling the playing field. This isn't about making things cheaper and/or more fair for consumers. It's about making competition between Amazon and French companies more level.

    It's not a perfect solution but there is no perfect solution. Personally I think it's a good start.
    I'm nit convinced it is about competition with Ffrench comoanies at all. Which frebch company is competing with Google, Netflix, Facebook, etc?

    I think what it's about is that tech-sector giants are seen, correctly, as not bearing their fair share of the burden of taxation compared tovother sectors, not yo each other.

    It's about fairness at a fundamental level, not about competitiveness and, to be blunt, not about whether it puts up consumer prices.

    The state has to provide all sorts of services, from warships to dustcarts, and someone has to pay for it. And ultimately, whatever the mechanism, that means people, citizens, consumers .... which are all pretty much the same thing.

    I saw one set of figures suggesting that the overall tax burden on companies in France is about 23%, but inside the giants in the tech sector, it's more like 8% or 9%. And that is the unfairness - that unlike everybody else in the business world, tech giants are operating in France (like here) and not making a "fair" contribution towards the cost if government providing services to those sane citizens the FANG's are making huge profits from.

    Will consumer prices go up? Will competitive pressures keep the steady and force the FANG's to finance this?

    I don't think government cares.

    What they care about is getting their fair slice because that is what pays for services. Will consumers eat price rises? Probably. But they already do in just about every other sector, so why not the tech giants?

    If consumers objec4 to resultant price rises, it brings up to a long-standing political conundrum ..... most people want Rolls Royce public services, but don't want to pay for them. The world doesn't work like that.
    Pretty much this. And to add, it's laughable that the counter point is to say that it's discrimination against American businesses. It isn't. It's discriminating against mega corporations that rake in ten or hundreds of billions of dollars of revenue each year. They try to use language to stir up some kind of national pride and or make themselves out as though they're being victimised. These very same companies who operate cut throat policies, bully and harass each other and other companies with legal and financial claims every single day and who, legally or not (certainly not morally) reduce their tax burden to the absolute minimum.

    Pay their cries no heed for they are undeserving of anything approaching sympathy or empathy. They would harvest your personal and spending data in a second to turn a profit and they don't care one bit if you're alive or dead. You're a data point to them, nothing more or less. Let's get them paying reasonable taxes in every location they operate.

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