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Thread: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

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    Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    As the Steam Summer Sale dates leak (25th June to 9th July).
    Read more.

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    Hardcore Tory, Lost Cause Ttaskmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Why would they be begging for our loyalty?
    Are they worried about losing business to Epic, or something?
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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Why would they be begging for our loyalty?
    Are they worried about losing business to Epic, or something?
    I'd likely see this as an extension of the existing trading cards arrangements - something I don't personally give two hoots about but I know a lot of people love.

    They don't really need to fear Epic, at least not yet - their money will run out eventually and once the bribes and underhand, anti consumer practices stop the incentive for anyone to use their platform drops through the floor.

    Early numbers show that even after a 6-12 month wait, sales of the bribed epic exclusives are just as strong on Steam, and hopefully that trend continues.

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    Hardcore Tory, Lost Cause Ttaskmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Oh well that'll be alright, then. The sooner Epic die, the better.
    It's always great when large corporates get to win and eliminate all challengers. It's not like Steam has ever done anything bad or unfair....
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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Ummm this doesn't sound too different from any previous Steam summer/winter sale.
    You get rewards for buying more stuff in the sale.
    Turning that feature into something permanent would be nice, but it will most likely exclude externally obtained products (through steam keys).

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Oh well that'll be alright, then. The sooner Epic die, the better.
    Not at all, as i've said many times - the competition is needed, but just not by introducing console style timed and permanent exclusives into a previously open platform like a PC. evenmoreso not by bribing the publishers (not developers I must add....this isn't their fault!). It's still amazing the authorities have not stepped into this given how bad it is for the consumer, but the they are slow to act when it comes to tech so who knows.

    Here's the thing though - if Epic stopped all the exclusivity rubbish, they wouldn't be able to compete with Steam. Why? Their launcher and store is rubbish, feature poor, and the company has a terrible record on security (much worse than steam).

    Epic could have invested all that bribery money into their platform and product and given valve something to *really* worry about. They took the lazy approach though which is fine [for them] short term, but disastrous for the PC gaming community as a whole in the long run if it keeps going.

    I'd much rather support platforms like GOG which are much more open and don't get involved in the "bad" side - look how fast they are growing and the support they get by well, not screwing over the PC gaming community...

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Why would they be begging for our loyalty?
    Are they worried about losing business to Epic, or something?
    I'd likely see this as an extension of the existing trading cards arrangements - something I don't personally give two hoots about but I know a lot of people love.

    They don't really need to fear Epic, at least not yet - their money will run out eventually and once the bribes and underhand, anti consumer practices stop the incentive for anyone to use their platform drops through the floor.

    Early numbers show that even after a 6-12 month wait, sales of the bribed epic exclusives are just as strong on Steam, and hopefully that trend continues.
    Epic very recently introduced 2 factor authentication, which is mandatory even when redeeming free games. So I don't even bother claiming free games now.

    Almost like a nail in the coffin.

    In my opinion they've spent their money poorly, there were better investments, whether that be exclusives, acquisitions or improvements (which they desperately need).

    They still have a lot of pressure on Valve and these changes prove it.

    I think it will be similar to the sale they had 2 or 3 year back, but instead of being heavily achievment based, it will be badges and purchases, likely others.

    I had a hell of a lot of points on my accounts, didnt claim them, then they changed it to bring cards back, so I lost then all.

    I won't be buying based on these loyalty promises.

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    I actually tried Epic, the launcher is a joke, really is pathetic. Not even basic functionality.

    I know we've been spoilt by Steam, but it is so far behind they would have to buy every game as a exclusive to stand a chance.

    Still good for us to have competition, Valve are at their best when they're challenged.

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Here's the thing though - if Epic stopped all the exclusivity rubbish, they wouldn't be able to compete with Steam. Why? Their launcher and store is rubbish, feature poor, and the company has a terrible record on security (much worse than steam).
    All that is true, but what's also true is they wouldn't be able to compete due to the massive monopoly power Steam has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Epic could have invested all that bribery money into their platform and product and given valve something to *really* worry about. They took the lazy approach though which is fine [for them] short term, but disastrous for the PC gaming community as a whole in the long run if it keeps going.

    I'd much rather support platforms like GOG which are much more open and don't get involved in the "bad" side - look how fast they are growing and the support they get by well, not screwing over the PC gaming community...
    Absolutely. They could make a platform with a unique USP (like GOG,) backed with their own in house games (like GOG,) and even a launcher that not only works as well as Steams but also contains functionality that Steam doesn't (like GOG with Galaxys ability to pool all your games from various launchers.)

    I did look at how fast GOG was growing, you may want to sit down for this inconvenient truth. Despite doing all of the above, CD Projekt (the company that owns GOG and the CD Projekt Red game dev/publisher,) made revenues equivalent to $124.9m USD in 2019 (source: https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-cont...p-for-2019.pdf ) that includes everything they do, not just the GOG store.

    Epic on the otherhand have recently announced that the Epic Store (not the whole of Epic and it's subsidiaries,) had revenues of $680m last year. "Ah, but loads of that will be Fortnite" you cry. True, but they also state revenues of $251m in third party PC games. (source: https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-U...validated=true )

    GOG may be fighting the good fight and GOG has years of brand recognition as a store front and all else being equal I'd buy a game on GOG rather than Epic (or Steam for that matter,) but Epic have proven that their way works regardless of how people feel about it.
    Last edited by spacein_vader; 12-05-2020 at 07:46 PM.

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    I would pay money for not having to go thru places like steam,,,,, and epic,,,, and whatever they are called.

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Anti-consumer? Yeah, sure, if you like. Why not... Whatever makes you feel better about it.
    It makes no difference, because the consumers are not the customer. They're the resource. Developers are the customers.

    Consumers are the ones doing all the work. Consumers are the ones demanding all the features and all the games in one easy, convenient place. Consumers are the ones doing Steam's marketing for them. Consumers are the ones doing the Community Workshop stuff for a (potential, but not guaranteed) 25% of the profit Steam makes from selling it. Steam barely have to lift a finger, and even then it's just a few staff costs to admin it. What did that little exercise make them? $170 Million, IIRC?

    Steam is purely a corporate beast, just like Amazon, who uses and abuses every tiny little trick and exploit they can to claw up more money.
    It takes way too much money to try undercutting Steam and not go under, unless you're selling something they're not (like DRM-free good old games) or have your own line of games (Uplay, Origin).

    It costs you the same money on Epic as it does (or will in a years' time) on Steam and anywhere else, but the Devs get a better cut of the sales, and Epic are doing this purely to kick Steam in the nads and give them a wedgie. Epic is basically the gaming equivalent of Fair Trade coffee... and I don't see anyone trying to burn down Waitrose for selling that!
    Yes, they could probably make more money on Steam eventually, years down the line, so long as their game holds up enough for Steam to market it more heavily and they don't go bust in the years between now and then like so many game studios seem to, these days... or they could take the guaranteed payments in advance, plus the increased percentage cuts and have a bit more of a certain future, at least for the first year of the game. Who knows, maybe even make some decent sequels and other games...

    From a publisher/developer perspective, they basically now have options and it's becoming a bidding war for distribution, so they are definitely heading towards a win.
    Then you have things like this: https://www.thegamingeconomy.com/202...lishing-model/
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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    I would guess this is to do with the sale but a further loyalty may be ok, I don't spend enough on gaming for these things to make a difference.

    I have no loyalty to any of them, I don't see the any problems with the epic launcher, I click a game and play. Steam works in an equal(ish) just throws pop ups sometimes when I launch and throws some trading card things my way which I just sell for pennies.

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    The Epic CEO is a hypocrite. When MS started to introduce its own games store,he went moaning to the media,MS would stifle customer choice,etc and it was bad and poor Steam and GOG needed to be protected:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...s-gears-of-war

    Then after his firm got more investment by Tencent,etc he decided consumer choice wasn't a big deal after all::
    https://www.thegamer.com/epic-boss-s...not-consumers/

    Epic Boss Says Developers Will Decide Who Wins The Game Store Wars, Not Consumers
    https://www.theguardian.com/games/20...te-makes-money

    Epic bosses admit ignoring data protection rules and claim not to know how long users play for
    Then after that his company told our MPs,data protection laws don't apply to his company. The guy just changes his stance every few years.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoyoyo69 View Post
    I actually tried Epic, the launcher is a joke, really is pathetic. Not even basic functionality.

    I know we've been spoilt by Steam, but it is so far behind they would have to buy every game as a exclusive to stand a chance.

    Still good for us to have competition, Valve are at their best when they're challenged.
    The Steam client is f*** bad - i hate it honestly. On top of that Valve did s*** for users before epic has emerged (that was not monetized). Go and try to sort you library by genre, something that you can do easily in the store (good luck!). I honestly hope they will loose shares to anybody.
    There are some "recent changes to the Library, but they happened (guess when) after Epic store emerged.
    I dont mind timely exclusives, however i do mind the forever exclusives for consoles and DRM.
    All in the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The Epic CEO is a hypocrite.
    ...
    C'mon CAT-THE-FIFTH, find me a CEO of big company that is not a hipocrite. I dare you. Ba! I wonder if you can find a line manager that is not hypocrite.
    This comes to my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15HTd4Um1m4

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Urgh links to pro gamer gate guardian...Monopolies are bad Epic yeah wish we could have a better challenger but steam sat on there asses for along time. Sales were getting worse no Half life 3 etc all of a sudden they seem to be shifting gears.

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    Re: Evidence emerges of Steam loyalty discount scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    <snip> Epic is basically the gaming equivalent of Fair Trade coffee... and I don't see anyone trying to burn down Waitrose for selling that!
    what? Fairtrade coffee farmers are not paid huge bribes to only sell their coffee through one single outlet that requires you to hand over your personal details to a company with a horrible security record and serious questions over their ownship.

    Whilst we (pretty much) all agree that Steam's monopoly isn't good either, the way Epic have gone about things is totally indefensible.

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