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Thread: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

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    AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    And some benchmark scores for Ryzen 4000-series APUs (Renoir, Zen 2) have shown up.
    Read more.

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by hexus
    Due to this good fortune, the source says that AMD and TSMC have made adjustments to their plans and that the Ryzen 4000 series of desktop processors will be manufactured using TSMC N5P, rather than 7nm EUV.
    can I just check that's correct? The slide later in the article says ryzen 3 at 7nm and ryzen 4 at 5nm. Due to their silly naming the ryzen 3 cpus are the 4000 series, so do you mean the 5000 series ryzen 4 will be 5nm, or definitely that the upcoming 4000 due out later this year will actually be 5nm?

    If so that upgrade path for a B450 mobo or better will be incredible. 5nm on the AM4 socket!!!

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    are you all aware intel can simply offload some of its chips to TSMC or even Samsung?

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by lumireleon View Post
    are you all aware intel can simply offload some of its chips to TSMC or even Samsung?
    Then why are they still using 14nm+++++ ?

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    For the 2 people above Intel would just have to close fabs then... can't see that happening as they have always stated they will never be a fabless company.
    They have loads of capacity just on a process that's years behind
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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Volume manufacturing in Q4 and launching a product is a rather tight timescale

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    can I just check that's correct? The slide later in the article says ryzen 3 at 7nm and ryzen 4 at 5nm. Due to their silly naming the ryzen 3 cpus are the 4000 series, so do you mean the 5000 series ryzen 4 will be 5nm, or definitely that the upcoming 4000 due out later this year will actually be 5nm?

    If so that upgrade path for a B450 mobo or better will be incredible. 5nm on the AM4 socket!!!
    The slide in the article might be outdated, so we might see ryzen 4000 on 5nm

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    can I just check that's correct? The slide later in the article says ryzen 3 at 7nm and ryzen 4 at 5nm. Due to their silly naming the ryzen 3 cpus are the 4000 series, so do you mean the 5000 series ryzen 4 will be 5nm, or definitely that the upcoming 4000 due out later this year will actually be 5nm?

    If so that upgrade path for a B450 mobo or better will be incredible. 5nm on the AM4 socket!!!
    The DigiTimes piece indicates that the Zen 3 processors will be N5P but we will have to see if its true. As for desktop Ryzen 5000 (Zen 4) CPUs, that is even further away and even less certain. Remember this roadmap slide from late 2019 (and most others) has small print saying "roadmaps subject to change" - though we are more used to things changing in a negative way (delays etc).

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by mtyson View Post
    The DigiTimes piece indicates that the Zen 3 processors will be N5P but we will have to see if its true. As for desktop Ryzen 5000 (Zen 4) CPUs, that is even further away and even less certain. Remember this roadmap slide from late 2019 (and most others) has small print saying "roadmaps subject to change" - though we are more used to things changing in a negative way (delays etc).
    I'd imagine 5000 series will support DDR5 so AM5 will be required
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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by lumireleon View Post
    are you all aware intel can simply offload some of its chips to TSMC or even Samsung?
    "Simply offload"

    Taking an existing design and porting it to a different process is a very expensive, time consuming excersise. Where Intel would be "just another customer to their fully committed wafer output" to TSMC.

    I think you are unaware of the hundreds of millions of dollars it would cost intel to do that for a single CPU die design.
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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    It's unlikely as other sources have already stated that the design process for 5nm is different to 7nm. I'd say 7nm on AM4 socket for this year and most of next year and then 5nm on a new AM5 socket then end of next year.

    Anything sooner is a bonus and would be kicking Intel when it's already down...

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    I'd imagine 5000 series will support DDR5 so AM5 will be required
    What's the latest on that? I seem to remember some talk about it being tested or used in the enterprise space, all be it at rather low speeds, but what's the current thinking on consumer availability?

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    What's the latest on that? I seem to remember some talk about it being tested or used in the enterprise space, all be it at rather low speeds, but what's the current thinking on consumer availability?
    Don't know about the forecasts (and I haven't paid them any attention), but going by historic switches prices will be very high for the first 'few' years. Vaguely recall that DDR3>>DDR4 took 4+ years.
    So unless AMD want to get bad reputation like Intel did during the RAMBUS-down-your-throat years, I doubt they'd force DDR5 too soon.
    Since the IO is a separate chip now, it is actually easy for AMD to release Zen4 with support for both.
    Whether they can do Zen4-DDR4 for AM4 with Zen4-DDR5 later on AM5 is a big question. I'd say it's unlikely, but if they don't then whatever DDR4 boards are made for Zen4 will be short-lived.

    Server's are less price sensitive so I'd expect them to once again transition far earlier. Mobile is unknown. If DDR5 is far more power efficient then they might transition before desktop.
    Found an image from 2015 showing how much desktop lagged behind server:


    Of course, the memory manufacturers (i.e. Samsung since the other two are far smaller), may try to push towards DDR5 to try and increase margins. The usual thing has been that the new standard gets better density which is usually most important in servers.

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Skylake desktop only launched halfway through Q3 15, so it is a bit chicken and egg - no desktop systems will ship with DDR5 until we get components that support it

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Zen+ was a process shift. AMD were probably already working on a Zen3+ on 5nm. Given the 5nm process is ahead of plan, they could validate that earlier than initially planned meaning release in 2020 possible rather than 2021 as planned. Add in Zen3 being delayed by Covid), if they'd not started proper bulk manufacturing of Zen3 on 7nm, the COVID Zen3 delay combined with the 5nm process early arrival could mean this happens.

    Utterly crazy if it does.

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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Re:Corky and kompukare - until the last few month I'd have agreed, but I've seen AMD try and shift forward much quicker than before.
    DDR5 is in testing stages, but as AMD have shown with the move to pcie gen4 they can get a load of traction with beating Intel to the post....
    DDR5 and DDR4 support is another thing they could do so maybe it is another reason they went for an i/o hub....

    Who knows... I'm just hoping they may push it forward
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    Re: AMD Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs to be fabbed on TSMC N5P?

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    "Simply offload"

    Taking an existing design and porting it to a different process is a very expensive, time consuming excersise. Where Intel would be "just another customer to their fully committed wafer output" to TSMC.

    I think you are unaware of the hundreds of millions of dollars it would cost intel to do that for a single CPU die design.
    Was just about to post something along the lines of this myself. Even for the title story, it's really not a case of AMD just making a last-minute decision to click go on a completely new node. Usually I'd just dismiss this out of hand as a misunderstanding, but AMD have been somewhat surprisingly lately so I guess there's an outside chance. If so, they would have had to be planning this for quite a long time, and that possibly means simultaneously designing Zen3 on both 5nm and 7nm - sounds mighty resource and cost intensive to me! I think it was one of Anandtech's writers suggested perhaps they might have one for Ryzen, another for EPYC if it does actually happen, but that would seem to negate some the advantage of using chiplets across both markets.

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