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Thread: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

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    Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Retaliatory move could affect every Unreal Engine game on iOS and MacOS.
    Read more.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Are banking app exempt from this transaction tax then?

    I dont know, ive not got qnything fruity nor can i bothered to read the t's and c's

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    feck it, drop to 15% across the board fro ios apps and they'll still make trillions and get loads of goodwill. Asking for 1/3 of everything for acting as a store is a ridiculous margin for any store digital or physical.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Apple, protecting customers, whats wrong with that...

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Dont buy Apple stuff - simple as that!!

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    We definitely don't have a monopoly, but if you try to sidestep our monopoly we'll revoke your access to the platform entirely.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Here we have one evil monopolistic company taking on yet another monopolistic evil company.

    Given Epics predatory, anti consumer anti gamer practices, it's great to see them finally getting a taste of what it's like to be on the other side of the fence. Good luck to Apple and Google on this fight. They may not be much better, but i'm backing them on this.

    Selfishly, their app store approaches don't negatively affect me. Epics do (and any other PC gamer).

    edit: I miss the days when Epic just made and published good video games. It's a really sad tale of a company that had so much respect in the gaming community and created some amazing titles, which spawned one of the most popular game engines in existence....and then fortnite happened and they seem to have gotten super greedy, alienating much of their fanbase in the process. Real shame.
    Last edited by Spud1; 18-08-2020 at 01:43 PM.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    The reason I picked Android over iOS was always the openness of using a different app store if I have issues with the official one. While Google are making this increasingly difficult (boo Google) at least the option is still there. Giving all this power to one firm over what happens with your devices is just not right.
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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidmunkee View Post
    Are banking app exempt from this transaction tax then?

    I dont know, ive not got qnything fruity nor can i bothered to read the t's and c's
    For banking apps it doesn't apply. It applies for transactions where you pay something to get something in return which is usable in the app, hence why apps like amazon shopping have always been allowed.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    I'll genuinely never understand how a platform that gives you access to hundreds of millions of players can be seen as not deserving of their cut

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Honestly... I'm on epic's side here, this is just Apple being 'unhappy' that someone is actually brave (and rich) enough to disagree with their, imo, anticompetitive iOS/store policies....it's not like they're already being looked at by governments etc.

    Apple might not come out of this smelling of roses as the saying goes, imo this is just as bad, if not worse, than MS and internet explorer and we all know how MS got hammered for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunnah View Post
    I'll genuinely never understand how a platform that gives you access to hundreds of millions of players can be seen as not deserving of their cut
    Would you want to give up 30% of your revenue to a company that is basically doing nothing but holding a few files, supposedly checking (debatable these days) and processing money through their forced usage of them as the payment provider.

    I don't think any company has an issue with paying a 'fair' amount for what Apple does (Epic is 12% for example), but I suspect most don't like the 30% they're forced to pay for the 'privilege' of providing apple with software for their device...

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Erm, Epic agreed to terms that they have since circumvented, so they're in breach, not sure why anyone would argue Epics point, grated Apple can, and are often, a bunch of dicks, but if you agree to something, why then moan about it when you get caught out trying to get around the things you agreed too...

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Honestly... I'm on epic's side here.
    Putting aside all debates about how good and bad apple & epic are - as that always includes a personal spin - Epic signed up to the terms and conditions to publish their game on the Apple app store (and on Googles too ofc).

    If they don't like it, they can pull their product and have an argument, or try and sue apple for being anti competitive or whatever they want...but simply ignoring the rules they agreed to and signed up for, is just wrong.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Putting aside all debates about how good and bad apple & epic are - as that always includes a personal spin - Epic signed up to the terms and conditions to publish their game on the Apple app store (and on Googles too ofc).

    If they don't like it, they can pull their product and have an argument, or try and sue apple for being anti competitive or whatever they want...but simply ignoring the rules they agreed to and signed up for, is just wrong.
    If you want to be on iOS you don't have a choice to sign up to the t&c's and if your users also want you on there you need to be available for them. Now don't get me wrong while I don't have an issue with t&c's in general they also shouldn't be designed to be anticompetitive and restrictive to the point of apple's when it comes to payment providers etc.. I also don't agree with 30% on EVERYTHING even if apple (or others like them) has nothing to do with it.

    We also need to consider there aren't exactly many companies out there that have the financial clout to go up against apple (and other major tech players like ms, google, facebook, amazon etc), if they disagree with them.. just look at the reaction from Apple, they're not just affecting epic, they're going after epic's customers who use epic software on iOS store too.... that to me is wrong on so many levels, but it seems to be the usual approach for apple (just look at imagination and the gpu side of things...).

    You also mention google but the thing is on android you can still side load, you can't on apple, and even ignoring side loading supposedly google went and 'blocked' a deal between epic and oneplus regarding fortnite outside of the google store.

    Essentially this is going back to go back to the old argument of who actually owns the phone when you buy it... if I buy a phone, it's mine and if I want to install something on it that 'apple' says I can't then do I really 'own' my phone.... by all means put warnings up etc (android does iirc) but don't stop 'me' from doing what I want to do with something I've bought and this is ultimately what epic is likely trying to raise awareness of.
    Last edited by LSG501; 18-08-2020 at 03:27 PM.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    If you want to be on iOS you don't have a choice to sign up to the t&c's.
    I generally agree with most of what you say - I have no love for Apples policies are they are clearly anti consumer - just look at the whole right to repair debacle for example.

    It's all irrelevant though. If i want to sell a product in a particular store, my product must be compliant and as a supplier I need to follow my customer's requirements. If I don't want to, then I don't access that market.

    It's very black and white to me. We can all have a discussion on how Apple's policies are awful etc etc and likely all agree, but again, it's totally irrelevant to this. They signed up to the agreement, they then decided to break the contract, so Apple is now enforcing their rights.

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    Re: Apple strikes Epic with iOS dev tools access revocation

    Epic: "hey, just cause we violated your terms so brazenly, insulted you and then tried to create a furor in our client base against you doesn't mean you should ban us!"

    Apple makes an example

    Epic sobbing crocodile tears: "but if you block our developer access you'll kill the development of many of your other app developers who rely on our software!


    Sorry, I despise Apple as much as the next reasonably sane person but Epic are wholeheartedly willing to sacrifice their own customer base both in gaming and the proponent of their software and then calling foul over it. This is so scummy, lets look at the timeline:

    1. Epic violates the terms of both Apple and Googles Play stores in a "yeah, well you shouldn't be costing us money, we should be allowed to do our own thing" (on the platform you maintain, design, update and secure (more Apple than Google on that) but granted Apple is more unreasonably draconian).
    2. Google and Apple pull the app from the store as it is a brazen terms violation
    3. Epic releases a pre-canned video insulting Apple using one of the most close to home in current world politics story books as a source material
    4. Epic initiates a lawsuit and tries to rile up support to boycott Apple and create dissent (and to point out, courts hate it when you make a mockery of due process) and force Apples hand
    5. Apple is an adult and goes "whiny child whining, right your allowance is cut off"
    6. Epic likely knew this was on the cards and is now screaming foul and files an injunction
    6a. not to mention the primary purpose of the injunction is not keep their developer access but also to keep Fortnite on the game store with the external links so they don't have to pay

    No, sorry, Epic has lost the damn plot on this and if Apple gives in or if the courts even waver in Epics favour i'll be highly surprised. That it's very clear that Epic knew what the ramifications were for their subscribers to the engine and did this anyway, probably hoping to get them on their side in fighting Apple.

    It is time Apple, and to a lesser extent Google, got taken to the coals over their app store costs but this is a crazy way of doing it...

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