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Thread: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

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    Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    And some are already pushing for the UK to rejoin the EU's Galileo system.
    Read more.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Not like the UK Government to sink astronomical sums of money into something fanciful, then perform a complete 180 with no return on the investment... but this could end up being a double or triple whammy of incompetence (or maybe also interpreted as lining the pockets of wealthy Tory backers - if you've been around long enough to develop a healthy sense of scepticism about such things).

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    "The UK previously invested heavily in Galileo and as an EU member pushed for it to not be open to third party military use"

    The latter part of that is a detail I hadn't been aware of before. Makes more sense why the go-it-alone approach had been pursued now; it never made sense to me before.

    I'll chalk it up as another example of why it's stupid to put decisions with major long-term importance up to a simple 50% + 1 majority vote (as well as to act like the results of an advisory vote are binding when they are not).

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    I really need to set myself up as a government consultant. I could have told them all this even though I'm not a subject 'expert'. I'm sure I'd have a hot less than £92m. I'm sure I could have done it for a 100th of that and been very happy

    Now just need to get my head round the boneheaded decision to purchase oneweb when 100% of the UK could have been fibred for less than £400m...
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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Almost makes you wonder if this entire Brexit thing was worth doing in the first place. </heavy sarcasm>

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Core2Extreme View Post
    ....

    I'll chalk it up as another example of why it's stupid to put decisions with major long-term importance up to a simple 50% + 1 majority vote (as well as to act like the results of an advisory vote are binding when they are not).
    So, what would you suggest? That a supposedly democratic government in a supposedly democratic country holds a referendum on a subject, and forget Brexit for a moment, with the Prime Minister publicly promising that it will be implemented, and then when they get a result they and a minority don't like, they simply ignore it? A vote, by the way, labelled as having been the biggest in UK history.

    So, after a load of Parliamentary faffing about, legal challenges and so forth, we then have a general election widely regarded, including by many Remain supporters, as a de-facto Referendum v2.0 and we all saw the result of that.

    Given the results, not once but twice, just how do you come up with a decision-making process that completely ignores both votes and somehow justify staying in, and still call it a democracy?

    What decision of the people does the government ignore next, because it doesn't like it? A general election result, maybe? Be careful what you wish for, lest you get it.

    Oh, and while the vote may not be legally binding, explain how it could have been? The referendum was, and had to be, an Act of Parliament. Any subsequent voting process by MPs could simply revoke, or override that act, given parliament's sovereignty and inability to bind future parliaments. So how could it be legally binding, when parliament can simply change the law?

    The "not binding" argument is merely a distraction by those that didn't like the result of the vote, most of whom I'd bet my left gonad would be insisting it was entirely binding, had the vote been to remain.
    Last edited by Saracen999; 21-09-2020 at 03:19 PM.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Core2Extreme View Post
    I'll chalk it up as another example of why it's stupid to put decisions with major long-term importance up to a simple 50% + 1 majority vote (as well as to act like the results of an advisory vote are binding when they are not).
    I'll chalk it up to Whitehall (non-elected Civil Servants) being incompetent at pricing out and implementing any form of infrastructure plan, without those costs either spiralling out of control, or the project being cancelled after spending large sums of money on it to realise that it isn't going to work without significantly more money, or for it to be pushed out to contractors who then decide it'll cost even more money (or they'll loan it and then charge double for it to be paid back etc).

    As for blaming something on the general public? I'm fairly sure they were not the ones requesting our own GPS system.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Oh, and while the vote may not be legally binding, explain how it could have been? The referendum was, and had to be, an Act of Parliament. Any subsequent voting process by MPs could simply revoke, or override that act, given parliament's sovereignty and inability to bind future parliaments. So how could it be legally binding, when parliament can simply change the law?

    The "not binding" argument is merely a distraction by those that didn't like the result of the vote, most of whom I'd bet my left gonad would be insisting it was entirely binding, had the vote been to remain.
    I just find it ironic that half the reason for voting leave was to return sovereignty back to the UK and to actually exercise that sovereignty they had to vote on the result of the referendum in Parliament, but instead of just getting on with it they wasted chuff knows how much tax payers money (double irony when another reason to vote leave was wasting money on the EU) fighting court cases about ensuring Parliament acted in a sovereign manner and had to vote on it in the end anyway.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Bloody hell, UK governments can't get new computer systems right when they are just land based, that they might make a system like a national GPS system work properly, is inconceivable, especially if the present government has anything to do with it. Rejoin the EU system already and, do it soon.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ilh View Post
    I just find it ironic that half the reason for voting leave was to return sovereignty back to the UK and to actually exercise that sovereignty they had to vote on the result of the referendum in Parliament, but instead of just getting on with it they wasted chuff knows how much tax payers money (double irony when another reason to vote leave was wasting money on the EU) fighting court cases about ensuring Parliament acted in a sovereign manner and had to vote on it in the end anyway.
    I take the point, though "returning sovereignty too the UK" does actually imply returning decision-making powers to Westminster (and, where relevant, devolved governments) rather than have those those powers sitting in Brussels. It has, or rather, will achieve that after "transition".

    But of course, almost anything government does can be challenged in court. It's not anything like as partisan here as the US but the government is still, up to a point, subject to the courts. And to be honest, so it should be. But it does mean they don't get to determine who can challenge them in court, and can't control the volume.

    A lot of the legal issues with Brexit revolved around the fact that the UK doesn't have a written constitution, and even the EU treaty was written with only a half-baked and insufficiently detailed "escape" clause, because it was never intended or expected to be used. Thus, due to so many issues not being clarified in either, it was wide open to challenges as to both fundamental meaning of some of it, and detailed implementation.

    It would have been better, having voted for it, to have just got on with it not dither about for 3 years, which frankly did neither the UK nor EU any favours. But while the referendum pulled the trigger on the process, that lack of legal clarity left the door wide open for challenges.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    The empire have suddenly realized,,,,, it is just a country like any other country. :-)

    Still with all the problems of Brexit, i wish we Danes would join the UK, rather that than the insanity of the EU.
    If it dont pan out we can go down in flames together, and i would rather do that too than EU.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Is there any realistic technical benefit we will see from setting this huge amount of money on fire as opposed to joining the EU Galileo System? Or like with many of our big post-brexit plans is this a thinly disguised vanity exercise to get away from the EU...

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Although the UK has a long and inglorious habit of gross ill-governance, the present incumbents really have plumbed the depths of incompetence, greed and corruption.
    They are going to spend £100bn on HS2 in order to shorten journey times from Birmingham to London by 40 minutes. A fraction of that humongous sum would fibre the whole nation AND build a world class GPS system.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmaheid View Post
    Although the UK has a long and inglorious habit of gross ill-governance, the present incumbents really have plumbed the depths of incompetence, greed and corruption.
    They are going to spend £100bn on HS2 in order to shorten journey times from Birmingham to London by 40 minutes. A fraction of that humongous sum would fibre the whole nation AND build a world class GPS system.
    Presumably, what you meant to say was New Labour really plumbed the depths, and the Tories carried it on. HS2 was a Labour project. As was HS1.

    While I agree on HS2, you can't dump it all on the "current incumbents" as solely responsible when it was a Labour project.

    Or was it a good idea when Labour wanted to do it, and only incompetence, corruption and greed when the Tories carry it on?

    If the current incompetent greedy and corrupt mob had cancelled it, what would the cost of all those broken and breached contracts have been, given the benefits then would have been naff all?
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Quote Originally Posted by simonpreston View Post
    Almost makes you wonder if this entire Brexit thing was worth doing in the first place. </heavy sarcasm>
    It most definitely was, if you've got lots of cash hidden away in tax havens and you were worried the EU might make you pay your taxes.

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    Re: Report: UK government reboots independent GPS plans

    Is there something that Theresa May has done right?

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