QOTW: Was virtual reality just a fad?

[DanceswithUnix]

and you seem to need a beast of a system to run the better setups without turning details down.

Compared to the basic Rift CV1 requirements of a GTX 1060 and an i5 4590 you already have a beast of a system.

And remember, if you want more detail, unlike with a boring flat panel you can move your head a bit closer

and with that I'm off to play that archery game in Steam VR lab. It's free if you have a Steam account, and great fun.

[Ttaskmaster]

VR can cause permanent brain damage. The human brain hasn't been made for this rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish. Lanier should be sentenced to a VR cage for life.

Yes, but like all the other things you do in life that are bad for you - it's bloody good fun!!!

And seeing as I just picked up a Vive of my own, I'mma follow DwU's example!

[Euphonium]

disclaimer: I have not had the opportunity to use a VR headset.

I don't think VR is a fad but I do think it's not ready for the mainstream yet. For that I think VR headsets need to be just another type of monitor - no accounts to log into, no software that only works on certain brands.
I think the tech is probably ready for VR cockpit games but anecdotally what I hear is that room-scale is a pain to set up in a shared family lounge.

Overall I think we'll see widespread adoption of AR headsets before we see widestream VR. AR can be used in everyday life (we trialed it at work hazard awareness) but VR is a much narrower niche.

[DanceswithUnix]

Overall I think we'll see widespread adoption of AR headsets before we see widestream VR.

AR and VR might share underlying technology but they are two totally different things. If I'm pretending to fly a space ship then I don't want to see the cat wandering past or the tree out my window I want the lot blotted out by my virtual world. Perhaps one day headsets might be able to do both, but honestly I think for most people just pointing a phone at things is enough like in the night sky mapping apps that tell you which stars are which and Pokemon Go.

[John_Amstrad]

VR can cause permanent brain damage. The human brain hasn't been made for this rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish. Lanier should be sentenced to a VR cage for life.

Yes, but like all the other things you do in life that are bad for you - it's bloody good fun!!!

And seeing as I just picked up a Vive of my own, I'mma follow DwU's example!

I agree that "more the fun more the harm" but I suggest that you use it with caution and at short time intervals. In short, seeing flashes when you close your eyes is a bad sign.

[cheesemp]

When I first got my Rift I was playing on a 2GB R9 285. It isn't ideal, but your RX480 8GB is fine.

Or put it another way, you could upgrade your GPU for the same (probably more) money, but would it give you any new experiences? It just makes the same old games a bit quicker and a bit nicer looking. That's not an upgrade, it's a rut.

In a VR headset playing Elite, you can look down whilst scooping a sun in your Asp Explorer and see the sun boiling away beneath your feet. In dogfights you can look around you to try and see where that second ship went after getting the first one. Sometimes you lean forwards when looking up to see past some beam that is blocking your view of the enemy. Firing up Dirt Rally in VR in the campaign mode the first car was a Lancia Fulvia. My brother owned a Fulvia once, and I spent a few minutes just gazing around the interior of the car boggled by the amount of detail they had put in there.

The simpler games, like Beat Saber, a Quest can play without even plugging into a PC.

The biggest blocker to VR is frankly the amount of space you need around you to play games like Alyx. If you can play in a living room then you are probably OK, but that isn't very family friendly.

But that's the problem. My PC is in my office/family room but its just a converted garage... Also don't get me wrong it seems like a nice to have but my rx480 is struggling with my 2k monitor already so it has to be replaced if I just want to keep my PC working. I did play a VR system on holiday where they had a room set up with PC's in backpacks and it was amazing I'll agree but it doesn't make the £300+ any easier to justify.

[Ttaskmaster]

I agree that "more the fun more the harm" but I suggest that you use it with caution and at short time intervals. In short, seeing flashes when you close your eyes is a bad sign.

Thanks, but I was being flippant - I've logged many hundreds of hours flying in VR Elite, as well as many hundreds more in plenty of other apps.
Not once have I experienced flashes, dizziness, nausea or any other ill effects.
The only time it has been bad for me is when 'playing' a FPS and letting a mate handle the controls!!

But then, I always set my headset up and configure it properly for me, which is why I always advocate others do the same. This improper setup is the biggest cause of many issues that people have, with VR, with 3D imagery, and all that stuff.
You can't just jump in a car and go, or look through a pair of binoculars and expect them to be perfectly comfortable - You have to make the alterations to suit you.

[Dashers]

I had a dk2 and was I using for Elite Dangerous... I can't play it without a vr headset any more... It lacks the immersion. For this type of game, it's amazing. I would probably invest again in future. FS 2020, more elite etc.

I'd like to try ED with VR, I know somebody who has one but whilst being an Elite fanatic, never took to VR. The low res of the DK2 combined with not being able to see anything put him off in the end.

I've got a 40" 4K screen on my desk, which is fantastic for Elite, and I can glance at my keyboard too. I would like to try head-tracking with it at some point. Gaming on a large screen close up feels like a good compromise between practicality and immersion. Works even better with proper surround sound instead of headphones.

[Saracen999]

....

But then, I always set my headset up and configure it properly for me, which is why I always advocate others do the same. This improper setup is the biggest cause of many issues that people have, with VR, with 3D imagery, and all that stuff.
You can't just jump in a car and go, or look through a pair of binoculars and expect them to be perfectly comfortable - You have to make the alterations to suit you.

I wouldn't dispute that for a moment. But ....

I tend to operate in one of two modes: either "me" or "reviewer".

When in "me" mode, I tend to be "if all else fails, and you really have to, RTFM". But not doing so is almost a point of pride. It does bite me in the chuff periodically, with something that MUST be done the right way, in the right order. That tends to be rare, though.

Then, there's reviewer mode. In that context, the publication it's being reviewed for matters. A 'tech' column in a national paper is going to be written at a different level of assumed expertise to something aimed at IT pro's. It has to be.

But either way, in reviewer mode, I do things in a fairly slow, painstaking mode and always RTFM. There's two reasons, really. First, if I end up criticising a product, it's only fair to have done that. Second, if I criticise a product and the manufacturer objects, I have to be able to defend the review, firstly to the commissioning editor, but also potentially in a court case. I've never been sued, but it's been threatened a time or two and the editor always wanted to know "can I back up my criticisms?" Oh, hell, yeah. I do it step by step, and document everything, just in case.

So .... re: VR. They give me headaches, and/or nausea. I've had systems (on loan) where they've been carefully set up by me, but also had the fairly rare experience a couple of times of having them set up for me, in their labs, by the manufacturer's technical teams.

It doesn't matter if I do it myself, try a generic system in PC World, or have it professionally set up .... except that the headaches/nausea start earlier in the PC World situation than in a manufacturer lab .... but not by much.

HOWEVER .... I do have some very specific sight issues so can't personally go further than to say that so far they don't work with me. If one ever does, I'd be delighted, and probably immediately buy.

I did, however, have a technical manager at a manufacturer tell me that a percentage (minority but not insignificant) of the population just don't seem to get on with them. He also pointed out that neither they (the manufacturer) nor necessarily even the customer, may know of certain eyesight issues, particularly in early stages, without access to medical records, if they exist. So he wouldn't speculate on whether some people just aren't wired right, or whether those having headaches/nausea might have eye conditions, or developing eye conditions, that caused it. And short of a fairly broad-based and statistically sufficiently widespread investigation into the sight of anyone having problems, I can't see an easy way to find out.

[DanceswithUnix]

The low res of the DK2 combined with not being able to see anything put him off in the end.

My old consumer Rift is also a bit low res for some of the text, so like everyone else in that boat (ship? ) I ended up editing one of the config files to change the colours to make it readable. It is annoying as it is so close to readable, so a quick move of your head forwards can "zoom" enough to read it. A more modern headset should be OK. Early adopter blues I guess. OTOH I think it says a lot that people will go to such lengths to get the game working well, because the alternative is to walk away from the game because I just can't play on flat screen any more.

Elite has lead to some minor domestics in our house though. If at my desk playing Elite I look left to where the info panel floats in game, I am IRL looking towards the wife if she is at her desk. Apparently this is disturbing

[Ttaskmaster]

I've got a 40" 4K screen on my desk, which is fantastic for Elite, and I can glance at my keyboard too. I would like to try head-tracking with it at some point. Gaming on a large screen close up feels like a good compromise between practicality and immersion. Works even better with proper surround sound instead of headphones.

If it weren't for Covid, I'd invite you round to have a go on mine!
For full VR, you really need a HOTAS, to which you've assigned all the controls you need and have spent enough time with to know where everything is without looking on a cheat sheet. That's fairly hardcore, though.

Head tracking is probably your best option, especially if you're likely to want food, drinks, ciggies/vapes, and other such during the game, and for avoiding other people interrupting you mid-game by tapping on your shoulder and making you jump out of your skin!

I did, however, have a technical manager at a manufacturer tell me that a percentage (minority but not insignificant) of the population just don't seem to get on with them. He also pointed out that neither they (the manufacturer) nor necessarily even the customer, may know of certain eyesight issues, particularly in early stages, without access to medical records, if they exist. So he wouldn't speculate on whether some people just aren't wired right, or whether those having headaches/nausea might have eye conditions, or developing eye conditions, that caused it. And short of a fairly broad-based and statistically sufficiently widespread investigation into the sight of anyone having problems, I can't see an easy way to find out.

Surveys not needed - As mentioned, some people will just be outside the range of adjustment for the device. I'm just barely within the IPD range for one of them (the Rift, I think), which is far narrower than most binoculars, for example.
Other people have certain issues, be it visual defects, inner ear balance problems, or something else. It's like people who get travel-sick in cars or on boats - It doesn't mean the technology is duff, but that some peope will have reasons why they personally don't get on with it.

The rest, however, is invariably down to device setup somewhere along the line. It's the same with 3D films - The principles behind them have not changed, because the MkI Human Eyeball has not changed. 3D films worked great in the 1950s when they came out, because people made them and screened/projected them properly. These days most of the "horrible" 3D is down to the filmmakers not doing their job. It's pretty simple stuff, as well... I can go through The Hobbit and Avatar shot-by-shot, point out all the errors made, and explain why they don't work in 3D when other similar shots did.

[DanceswithUnix]

These days most of the "horrible" 3D is down to the filmmakers not doing their job. It's pretty simple stuff, as well... I can go through The Hobbit and Avatar shot-by-shot, point out all the errors made, and explain why they don't work in 3D when other similar shots did.

I quite liked 3D films, but there is a social problem that if one person in the group you are seeing a film with doesn't want to do 3D (be it an eyesight problem, not wanting to wear the glasses for 2 hours or just basic luddite tendencies) then that vetoes 3D for the group, and you end up watching it in 2D.

I don't really get why people bundle 3D tv and TV in the same argument, different pressures apply.

... and with that, there is another sub-game in Steam's free Lab where you pilot a space ship in a shoot em up by simply holding it and pointing it at things. Spotted it when firing up Longbow yesterday and think I can get a quick go in before bed. If only there was no content for VR, I could just go to bed instead

[Saracen999]

....

Surveys not needed - As mentioned, some people will just be outside the range of adjustment for the device. I'm just barely within the IPD range for one of them (the Rift, I think), which is far narrower than most binoculars, for example.
Other people have certain issues, be it visual defects, inner ear balance problems, or something else. It's like people who get travel-sick in cars or on boats - It doesn't mean the technology is duff, but that some peope will have reasons why they personally don't get on with it.

...

Agreed. I've never said the tech is bad. Just what it does to me.

His point about surveys was that to distinguish between those getting ill because of bad setup from those getting ill because of some inherent problem (liked eyes) can only be a guess unless they have more than anecdotal evidence to go on. It needs testing which, at least at that time, some years back, hadn't been done.

They couldn't say, then, xx% of people are 'outside tolerances' and yy% just need to set itt up right, because they didn't have data to back it up.

It could be that 99.9% of people having problems are due to bad setup, or 99.9% are due to some problem with the user. My guess is somewhere in-between, but I wouldn't want to put a number on it.

[John_Amstrad]

Surveys can't help. If the industry wants to go forward with VR, eventually it will, no matter what health issues. Think about the radiation effects of mobile phones to human health: we still don't know the truth after almost 20 years of use.

[DanceswithUnix]

Think about the radiation effects of mobile phones to human health: we still don't know the truth after almost 20 years of use.

Yes we do, and phones are made to be safe. Just some people like to scare monger and distrust a peer reviewed scientist preferring to trust a self proclaimed expert who felt the energy problems in their pyramid crystals or some other such nonsense.

Perhaps if we said "radio waves" rather than using the scary "radiation" word people would calm down a tad.

[badass]

I'd like to try ED with VR, I know somebody who has one but whilst being an Elite fanatic, never took to VR. The low res of the DK2 combined with not being able to see anything put him off in the end.

I've got a 40" 4K screen on my desk, which is fantastic for Elite, and I can glance at my keyboard too. I would like to try head-tracking with it at some point. Gaming on a large screen close up feels like a good compromise between practicality and immersion. Works even better with proper surround sound instead of headphones.

Smoothtrack uses your mobile phone for head tracking and it works (in my case any way)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...hl=en_US&gl=US
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/smoothtrack/id1528839485

I had a go dreaming of it meaning my monitor would "feel" more like a window but it wasn't that great TBH.