Microsoft Windows 10 'Sun Valley' to deliver significant UI updates

[Corky34]

For tinkering with the internals, I'd certainly agree it's different. And perhaps, a different mindset, too. A bit like the brainache going from a linear programming environment to an object-oriented one was for me. But I wonder if, had you used Linux first and become thoroughly familiar with tinkering, would you have had the same issues switching to Windows with what would then have been it's unfamiliarity?

Oh 100%. I do plan on getting back to learning more about Linux, perhaps when my new hardware isn't so new, trying to switch to it along with an upgrade probably wasn't a good idea as support from hardware vendors can suck, especially on newer stuff (FreeSync, X570, sensor chips), it's that chicken and egg thing again, hardware vendors don't support it because there's not many users and there's not many uses because they don't, Steam helped out in that area a lot but even their reach is pretty limited.

From a 'normal' user perspective I'd actually say Linux is better than Windows, there's next to no worries about drivers, you don't have to spend ages trawling the internet to find the right bit of software, and you don't have to worry if there's a new version of whatever software.

[philehidiot]

All I can say is I am going to get a load of tearful phone calls from my mother saying "they've changed it again!" because they've moved things around. It's bad enough that I can't keep up with where things are. It's like learning to drive and suddenly the cars controls move around. It's barking mad and seriously frustrating. They MUST put in a way to revert back if you don't like it.

But, I must know nothing. MS know better. Last update broke my WiFi adaptor. I'm excited to see what the next one brings.

Closer and closer Linux comes.

[Gentle Viking]

I sure hope the things are able to be disabled, i have no interest in them i am sure.
Like someone else mentioned i too prefer the XP / 2000 look, so i have butchered / disabled and made all the changes i can to win 10 to not make it look the way they think is cool.

[DanceswithUnix]

But I wonder if, had you used Linux first and become thoroughly familiar with tinkering, would you have had the same issues switching to Windows with what would then have been it's unfamiliarity?

Whilst strictly speaking I learnt Windows first (I briefly even delved into Windows XP device driver writing, urgh!), I learnt Linux so long ago that Windows always feels like a game of catch-up.

Unix was always a way of thinking, a set of guiding principles. Almost everything in the system is a file, even things like disks. All the files are in one tree. Utilities should do one thing and do it well. Configuration should be in text files, in the /etc directory. You might not be the only person currently running programs on this machine. Scripting is your friend.

Once you "grok" the Unix way, Windows feels like a teetering mess in comparison.

[spacein_vader]

Utilities should do one thing and do it well.

*cough* Systemd *cough*

[DanceswithUnix]

*cough* Systemd *cough*

Yeah, that's generated a lot of hate hasn't it.

I have yet to write a full on systemd plugin, so I don't know how gnarly it is under the hood. Doing some basic service config files seemed no worse than the old systems. To be fair, the sys-v init scripts it replaces were pretty bad, and the systemd boot time is pretty impressive.

[Saracen999]

Whilst strictly speaking I learnt Windows first (I briefly even delved into Windows XP device driver writing, urgh!), I learnt Linux so long ago that Windows always feels like a game of catch-up.

Unix was always a way of thinking, a set of guiding principles. Almost everything in the system is a file, even things like disks. All the files are in one tree. Utilities should do one thing and do it well. Configuration should be in text files, in the /etc directory. You might not be the only person currently running programs on this machine. Scripting is your friend.

Once you "grok" the Unix way, Windows feels like a teetering mess in comparison.

Nice Heinlein reference.

I agree with all that .... from a tinkerer's perspective.

From a normal (not power) user's perspective, they shouldn't need to know any of that. If they want to make configuration changes, there's a control panel for that, and even then, about three quarters of the settings are to be locked off from casual sticky fingers, restricted to admins and even then, only if you know how to find the right control.

For most of the people I "support" (thankfully very few these days) about the last thing I want them doing is tinkering with config files. Most of them, when they try that, have a habit of badly breaking something, then utterly forgetting ('cos they didn't understand in the first place) what they were tinkering with.

[ritiklahori270]

these are amazing windows is improving day by day

[k9wazere]

UI design is fascinating. The number of times you look at a device and think, "What were they thinking?" - well, it's still a regular occurrence.

I often deal with non-technical people trying to get to grips with various devices and software. A big obstacle to learning these devices is that they tend to be internally inconsistent.

Windows is massively inconsistent, and the modern UI co-existing with older UI controls doesn't help there either.

In Windows, how many times have you seen someone double-clicking things where a single click would have done the job?

Well, I don't really blame them.

Desktop - double click to launch, single click to select, additional single click (on the text part ONLY) to rename.
Start Menu - single click to open, single click to launch
Taskbar - single click to launch
Explorer and File Open dialogs - single click to highlight, double click to select (and close dialog)
App menu - Single click to open, single click to close, single click to select action and close
Ribbon - yadda
Something else - different again

You can't learn that "a double click does this" and "a single click does this" because it does different things depending on the context.

There is just so much inconsistency in Windows that dates right back to the earlier versions.

And now, you have a great situation where to run something as a different user, you have to right click your app from the taskbar, then shift-right click the app name, then choose "run as user"... No doubt that this is a complete mess.

Teaching this stuff to somebody who hasn't used Windows for years involves teaching them that "X does Y, except here, where X does B, and then in this screen, X does C..."

It's only natural to us because of years (and years) of conditioning. In my case since Windows 3.1