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Thread: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

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    EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Overhauls digital rules set out back in 2000 to better reflect the industry, protect consumers.
    Read more.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Looks good, lets hope the UK government comes up with something similar.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Looks good, lets hope the UK government comes up with something similar.
    No chance of that. Ability to abuse the citizen is one of the reasons we vote to leave the EU.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Looks good, lets hope the UK government comes up with something similar.
    No chance of that. Ability to abuse the citizen is one of the reasons we vote to leave the EU.
    It's ironic isn't it? Sold to the proles as 'getting our freedom back' they voted like turkeys for christmas. They'll probably still find a way to blame Jeremy Corbyn for it though!?

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    EU talking about shady practices of others. Maybe they should get their own house in order - honour referenda, conduct elections as required in their laws (instead of back-room coronations), let he citizens choose their leaders and representatives. And on and on.
    They might also want to ask why no digital leaders exist in the EU. This is just more of the same from the EU - protectionism and tariffs by another name that will end up costing the citizens of the EU whilst providing no jobs, no alternative. Still no answer as to why these organisations have not come from here.
    15 years ago europe an an unbreakable lead in mobile phone platforms and technology - that was gone in bately 5 years, replaced by 2 american companies with zero background in that industry.
    Cars are likely next.
    The entire reason for this it to create revenue (fines) to fund the EU, not to beneifit the plebs subject to their rules.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by gagaga View Post
    EU talking about shady practices of others. Maybe they should get their own house in order - honour referenda, conduct elections as required in their laws (instead of back-room coronations), let he citizens choose their leaders and representatives. And on and on.
    They might also want to ask why no digital leaders exist in the EU. This is just more of the same from the EU - protectionism and tariffs by another name that will end up costing the citizens of the EU whilst providing no jobs, no alternative. Still no answer as to why these organisations have not come from here.
    15 years ago europe an an unbreakable lead in mobile phone platforms and technology - that was gone in bately 5 years, replaced by 2 american companies with zero background in that industry.
    Cars are likely next.
    The entire reason for this it to create revenue (fines) to fund the EU, not to beneifit the plebs subject to their rules.
    I'm not sure your anti-EU rant has any substantiation in reality. It's the usual hyperbole trotted out by Faragists but often without credible basis. Could you give an example of where the EU has not honoured a referendum? Or where the EU has prevented people electing their own representative?

    Also we do get to vote for our MEPS. It might not get the airtime it should, and a lot of people blindly ignore it, but we DO get to vote for it (or at least we did).

    As for phone tech, Nokia's demise was not the EU's fault, it was the fault of their woeful CEO killing off their own smartphone development and selling them out to Microsoft - some would allege for personal gain. Fast forward a few years and MS stops making software for smartphones altogether. Just one of those US big tech companies I guess this bill has in mind.

    As for whether laws benefit the citizens: I can think of several good ones: paternity leave, enhanced maternity rights, food standards, car safety and pedestrian impact safety, construction product certification to ensure fitness for use, air pollution targets, GDPR, limiting use of carginogenic pesticides, I could keep going. The only one I can personally think of that annoyed me has been limiting the size of hoover motors. Pointless and bad science that one but if that's the trade-off then so be it. Can you show me an EU law designed to subjugate the people that we should be seeking to repeal?
    Last edited by ik9000; 15-12-2020 at 01:24 PM.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    I'm not sure your anti-EU rant has any substantiation in reality. It's the usual hyperbole trotted out by Faragists but often without credible basis. Could you give an example of where the EU has not honoured a referendum? Or where the EU has prevented people electing their own representative?

    Also we do get to vote for our MEPS. It might not get the airtime it should, and a lot of people blindly ignore it, but we DO get to vote for it (or at least we did).

    As for phone tech, Nokia's demise was not the EU's fault, it was the fault of their woeful CEO killing off their own smartphone development and selling them out to Microsoft - some would allege for personal gain. Fast forward a few years and MS stops making software for smartphones altogether. Just one of those US big tech companies I guess this bill has in mind.
    Ignore them. They are probably a Yank,because accounts like that were hating on Airbus and supporting Boeing in another thread. Yet Airbus is a major UK aerospace employer and the UK was a major founding member of Airbus. It was formed prior to the UK even entering the EEC!

    Airbus was fined by the WTO for protectionism,Boeing was fined almost the same amount for the same thing. Apparently poor Boeing had to be protected forgetting they tried the same crap against Canadian Bombardier with their C-Series,and they joined forces with Airbus. Then they lost their protectionist case. Boeing has had a long history of US protectionist support,and state support.

    So many of the products they make for the US military had flaws and problems,but since they employ so many people they keep getting contracts. The KC46,V22,etc all have had massive problems,and instead of cutting Boeing free and looking elsewhere they get easy money. Even the new T7 trainer is made by guess.....Boeing.Let's hope Saab keeps it in line! This easy money has now bled into their commercial products - look at what is happening with the 737?? Airbus,Bombardier and multiple other companies have better equivalent products. Boeing CBA. Then ULA had a monolopy on US rocket launches and guess who is half of ULA....Boeing. See what SpaceX has achieved in such a short time??

    If you want to see an example where excessive protectionist indirect state support is not a good thing,then look what happened with Boeing. Lots of subpar products,subpar support but they don't care because they get easy money and get politially protected. Lots of smaller local competitors who didn't get a chance.

    People like that just sprout utter weirdness most of the time regarding "protectionism" but on purpose deflect and bury the huge amount of "protectionism" and "state support" the US gives to its companies. Literally every large country finds some way to work around WTO rules and enable state support. China does,India does it,Russia does,Japan does it,etc. If anything I do find the EU's "official line" on state aid/support a bit of window dressing. The EU does it,but in roundabout ways.

    They also seem to be clueless about what happened in the UK WRT to Rolls Royce,which was saved by bankruptcy by being nationalised,or how BAe was original formed by the UK government merging multiple aerospace companies into a state own entity which was later privatised:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircra...tries_Act_1977

    If that isn't state support,I don't know what is,and can be considered protectionist.

    Also BAe has gotten a lot of support too. It essentially became its own monopoly in ship building in the UK,and there were so many issues as a result of this. This is why the Type 31 programme was probably awarded to another company.

    Also I knew people who worked for Nokia in the UK,and it was Nokia underestimating Apple and Samsung,etc and being too invested in Symbian. People started leaving the company as time progressed.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 15-12-2020 at 11:48 PM.


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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Ignore them. They are probably a Yank,because they were hating on Airbus and supporting Boeing in another thread. Yet Airbus is a major UK aerospace employer. Then they boasted Airbus was fined by the WTO for protectionism,and then on purposed ignored Boeing was fined almost the same amount for the same thing.

    They just sprout utter rubbish most of the time regarding "protectionism" but on purpose deflect and bury the huge amount of "protectionism" and "state support" the US gives to its companies. Literally every large country finds some way to work around WTO rules and enable state support. They also seem to be clueless about what happened in the UK WRT to Rolls Royce,which was saved by bankruptcy by being nationalised,or how BAe was original formed by the UK government merging multiple aerospace companies into a state own entity which was later privatised:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircra...tries_Act_1977

    Also I knew people who worked for Nokia in the UK,and it was Nokia underestimating Apple and Samsung,etc and being too invested in Symbian. People started leaving the company as time progressed.
    Yes, maybe an American or Canadian as their location is shown as "London Town" and as we all know, there is no such place in the UK. There are various towns and cities that make up Greater London but none called London Town that I'm aware of. There is however one in Canada and a handful more in various states of the USA. They call themselves cities but some of them are so small they are better described as a town. Circa 350,000 in London, Ontario, Canada. ROFL. That's roughly the population of Tower Hamlets by itself!

    Re Nokia there was a great article going into depth on Nokia's CEO and how he got a cushy position at MS after the aquisition. They didn't have a rival to Apple et al because he killed off the dev team ahead of time and declared they were focussing elsewhere. Had he not done so they would have had something at, or very near, market-ready. I'll see if I can find it and add a link later.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Yes, maybe an American or Canadian as their location is shown as "London Town" and as we all know, there is no such place in the UK. There are various towns and cities that make up Greater London but none called London Town that I'm aware of. There is however one in Canada and a handful more in various states of the USA. They call themselves cities but some of them are so small they are better described as a town. Circa 350,000 in London, Ontario, Canada. ROFL. That's roughly the population of Tower Hamlets by itself!

    Re Nokia there was a great article going into depth on Nokia's CEO and how he got a cushy position at MS after the aquisition. They didn't have a rival to Apple et al because he killed off the dev team ahead of time and declared they were focussing elsewhere. Had he not done so they would have had something at, or very near, market-ready. I'll see if I can find it and add a link later.
    I wouldn't say Canadian,because Boeing tried its "protectionist" spiel with Bombardier who are the biggest Canadian aerospace company,with the C-Series regional jet. Accused the Canadian government of "unfair" protectionist subsidies,and got a US court to impose massive tariffs on the airliners:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSerie...tion_by_Boeing

    All because Bombardier had invested in a more cost effective design and US operators were buying it. Airliners for the US market were also being assembled in Alabama so it was creating local jobs too. Parts are also made in Belfast too and the site employs a lot of people. The Canadian government managed to reverse the tariffs after stepping in. Then Bombardier partnered with Airbus. The fact is Boeing was trying to screw over a smaller rival.

    All they did is make Bombardier desperate enough to give Airbus another addtional tool to fight Boeing with.

    Also,I expanded my answer a bit more now. I knew people who worked at Nokia! I also saw people leave them as the rot set in!

    Did you know that one of the actors who played the English Airmen in Allo! Allo! was working at Nokia? Surprised me when a mate said they were a co-worker.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 15-12-2020 at 01:59 PM.


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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Looks good, lets hope the UK government comes up with something similar.
    Subject to what the Acts actually say when they're published, I entirely agree. Of course, as of January, we can do our own thing, or even take what the EU did and either fine tune, or if we wish, gold-plate it.

    My views on the EU aren't exactly a secret round here, but even I will happily concede this is an area where the EU comes up with some very good, and thoroughly copyable ideas. It;s also worth noting that in areas of consumer protection, the UK is often (but by no means always) ahead of the EU. For instance, the EU directive that required us to adopt DSR rules both forced the UK to do lookwise, but even now, a decade later, still hasn't caught up with other consumer protections we've had here for several decades (like 6 years "warranty", noting that that word does not mean what most people think it does).

    It is both an advantage and disadvantage of Brexit. Because we're one country (*), with one set of politicians, we can move much faster than the EU but, because we'll now be "sovereign" it doesn't mean we will move faster, or even at all. We just can, and we know who to moan at if they don't.

    So .... subject to these Acts do that it's being suggested they will, yup, a good idea to mirror them.

    (*) One country. I'm avoiding digressing either down into devolved powers, or SNP ambitions for independence. But note, even if the SNP get their way, "we" will still only be one country. "They" will be a separate one, and whether "they" mirror this or not won't be our business.
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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Oh, and it didn't take long for this thread to disappear down the usual Brexit rabbithole, did it?

    When are we actually going to be discuss something like this without it descending into the same tired old cobblers. We've left. We've very nearly even left transition cover. How about looking forward, rather than forever rehashing old arguments?
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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Oh, and it didn't take long for this thread to disappear down the usual Brexit rabbithole, did it?

    When are we actually going to be discuss something like this without it descending into the same tired old cobblers. We've left. We've very nearly even left transition cover. How about looking forward, rather than forever rehashing old arguments?
    It's an article on EU legislation. It's not a rabbit hole to therefore talk about the EU. So far as I can see someone is making unsubstantiated claims about the EU and its intentions. If they can demonstrate them and back them up with examples then great, we all learn something, but to-date, I have yet to hear a credible argument as to why the EU is bad and the only good argument for leaving is the idealogy of "we want sovereignty". Well great, but that still doesn't demonstrate why the EU is bad in practice. So I will keep asking it because like I say no-one has given me a good example of why the EU is bad. With the exception of hoover motors I haven't seen how it's negatively impacted me personally in my lifetime. Maybe I'm just ignorant and sailing through life with a naive view and am missing the oppression and unfairness of the EU. In which case do enlighten me. We are leaving sure, but to dismiss things as cobblers ? Well if I'm so mistaken then please do back it up with examples. Something tangible so to speak, not a political ideal, actual everyday practical examples of why the EU is actually bad for us.

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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Oh, and it didn't take long for this thread to disappear down the usual Brexit rabbithole, did it?

    When are we actually going to be discuss something like this without it descending into the same tired old cobblers. We've left. We've very nearly even left transition cover. How about looking forward, rather than forever rehashing old arguments?
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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Oh, and it didn't take long for this thread to disappear down the usual Brexit rabbithole, did it?

    When are we actually going to be discuss something like this without it descending into the same tired old cobblers. We've left. We've very nearly even left transition cover. How about looking forward, rather than forever rehashing old arguments?
    I think the problem is for those of us who like the EU we haven't stopped wanting to be members of the EU. Rejoining is all i'm practically going to looking at voting towards for the next 50 odd years of my life as I feel that aggrieved by it. This was never going to be a settled argument and probably never will be. I think some of the porkies told by leave haven't helped too (oven ready deals, so many millions back - we've spent almost as much leaving as we've put since the EU started etc).

    I could go one but maybe we should step away from Brexit for a bit before it gets heated? I just wanted to explain why this isn't settled in many minds.
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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    It's an article on EU legislation. It's not a rabbit hole to therefore talk about the EU. So far as I can see someone is making unsubstantiated claims about the EU and its intentions. If they can demonstrate them and back them up with examples then great, we all learn something, but to-date, I have yet to hear a credible argument as to why the EU is bad and the only good argument for leaving is the idealogy of "we want sovereignty". Well great, but that still doesn't demonstrate why the EU is bad in practice. So I will keep asking it because like I say no-one has given me a good example of why the EU is bad. With the exception of hoover motors I haven't seen how it's negatively impacted me personally in my lifetime. Maybe I'm just ignorant and sailing through life with a naive view and am missing the oppression and unfairness of the EU. In which case do enlighten me. We are leaving sure, but to dismiss things as cobblers ? Well if I'm so mistaken then please do back it up with examples. Something tangible so to speak, not a political ideal, actual everyday practical examples of why the EU is actually bad for us.
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    Re: EU Digital Services and Digital Markets Acts unveiled today

    Wont do much other than slow the Silicon Valley companies down, all EU attempts to reign in American tech have failed because they are beholden to it including the political trans-atlantic soup of EU and Washington bureaucrats.

    Europe's core problem is that it let the Americans have their way with the tech industry over the past few decades instead of building their own.

    The Americans of course are quite happy with this but even the most pro EU Washington DC types change their tune when the EU starts talking about taxing USA tech companies. Bidens people have been saying exactly this on places like the Atlantic Council.

    The Chinese have the right approach, in balancing foreign tech industry while growing their own because they know it can be weaponized by the Americans.

    The EU doesn't have the balls to do it, the Germans are addicted to exports and keeping Washington DC types happy thereby keeping Germany USA exports going.

    The French tried to push their own technology in the past but failed as they don't have the backing of the EU & now the French public is exhausted from pushing an economic boulder up a hill.

    The UK is nothing more than an outpost of the American Empire taking its place alongside Canada, Mexico, Australia (its not a terrible position to be in but its delusion to not see it).


    The eastern Europeans have the will/ambition to drive their own tech industry but they don't have the resources and the EU liberal elites despise the eastern Europeans for refusing to sacrifice themselves on the alter of progressive globalism. So don't expect much support there.

    Hobbling American tech companies doesn't do anything unless you put major resources behind growing domestic competitors.

    European versions of eBay, Youtube, Twitch, Steam Netlfix etc.. nowhere to be seen.
    Last edited by Kato-2; 15-12-2020 at 03:38 PM. Reason: spelling

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