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Thread: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by BiggusDickus View Post
    "Samsung cannot meet what nvidia need for supply, so how are they going to manage with amd as well"

    This 100% sums this story up.
    On the other hand, Samsung had no problems meeting demand for GT1030 and GT1050/Ti with their 14nm.
    And even with the new 8nm products, there were stories that at least for GA102 (3080 and 3090) GDDR6X supply is major problem too.

    Also GA102 is a 600mm²+ product which they seem to have decided to run past the perf/watt sweetspot of Samsung's 8nm. Guess time will tell: if they launch a GA102 3070 Ti with plentiful supply it probably means that 600mm²+ at the speed of 3080 and 3090 was pushing it.

    As for AMD and Samsung Semi: well we have no idea what size chips AMD intend to fab there. Zen3 CCDs at under 100mm² would be totally different than trying to fab Navi21 (which is already 520mm² with TSMC's 7nm and would be close to 600mm² on Samsung's 8nm going by the transistors/size of GA102 vs the existing Navi).

    Also, porting / redesigning (which is a more accurate description of the work which would required to move a design from TSMC's 7nm to Samsung's 8nm) probably takes a year or so so unless AMD started this work ages ago (and like I said in the PS5 comment, do AMD even have enough engineering resources to have begun this already while already taping out three consoles chips, Zen3 in both CCD and APU format - I think not) this is far more likely to be a Samsung post-8nm node.

    From wafer requirement calculations, the consoles are taking up to 80% of AMD's TSMC allocation so it makes the most sense to port those and with at least the PS5 chip already running past the sweetspot of TSMC's 7nm node, porting it to a worse node (Samsung's 8nm) would be impossible as a console is fixed (that is they can't 'simply' redesign it so the GPU runs slower but wider).

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    From wafer requirement calculations, the consoles are taking up to 80% of AMD's TSMC allocation so it makes the most sense to port those and with at least the PS5 chip already running past the sweetspot of TSMC's 7nm node, porting it to a worse node (Samsung's 8nm) would be impossible as a console is fixed (that is they can't 'simply' redesign it so the GPU runs slower but wider).
    I've seen the 80% figure bandied about few times now, eg:

    https://www.hardwaretimes.com/1-mill...-for-big-navi/

    but I've also seen it stated that 1M 5000 series CPUs sold is a ramp up twice as fast as AMD have ever done in the past. They probably believed they had the launch covered, but still badly underestimated the demand.

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I've seen the 80% figure bandied about few times now, eg:

    https://www.hardwaretimes.com/1-mill...-for-big-navi/

    but I've also seen it stated that 1M 5000 series CPUs sold is a ramp up twice as fast as AMD have ever done in the past. They probably believed they had the launch covered, but still badly underestimated the demand.
    Possibly. 1 million Zen3 CCDs are only about 1,500 wafers though, while 4.5 million PS5 would be around 35,000 (equivalent to over 22 million Zen3 CCDs).

    The figures are probably worse than that since Sony pushed for higher clocks after seeing Microsoft's specs and it is possible they had lot of fully functional parts which couldn't hit those clocks.

    Wasn't there talk of 60% yields or worse for Sony at some point whereas the widely bandied around defect of TSMC's 7nm of 0.09 per mm² (which is from a good while ago so yields should be far better than that now) gives a yield of about 76% for a 308m² part according to my calculations:


    Hm, between 60% and 76% that would mean that, what, 16% or so of 4.5 million working parts are waiting to be dumped? Woudn't mind some of those for a monster APU build!

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    Samsung cannot meet what nvidia need for supply, so how are they going to manage with amd as well
    THIS. This is why I just posted on wccftech the AMD ride is over (as I've said many times before, it ends this year or next). They forgot to make money over the last 3yrs on great tech. Instead they priced stupidly for market share which makes NO NET INCOME.

    Now, Intel is fully awake and buying your 3nm TSMC wafers before you can. Now Pat is back and Intel has an ENGINEER again as CEO and he's waited decades for this job to come (GROVEAN rules he said...LOL). He wants FABS and CHIP KINGS, PERIOD. Blue Crystals? Pffft, not from KICKING Pat. Note in the Q&A he said 2023 almost all Intel product IN HOUSE all year. He looked at the 7nm data and believes they have solved 7nm. That said, TSMC 3nm first I guess...LOL. I'd say this is NOT required either and fully think this is PAT making an Art of War move. Sure I could use my fab for 2022, but that wouldn't hurt AMD as much and NOT taking TSMC 3nm wafers gives AMD MANY more cpus etc to sell. Take the wafers EVEN if you are 100% good at your own fabs for this year and next. You can't gain INCOME if I take the wafers you require to build a chip (call samsung, LOL - See NV going back to TSMC due to shortages). I can take a financial fab hit and eat your wafers all day for 5B a year (Intel just made 5.9B this Q NET INCOME, AMD can't do that for a year). It's not illegal to buy what you don't need.

    I say that last line or two because Intel blew 4.1B+ a year for 5yrs on mobile (contra revenue...LOL) instead of fabs (that is what you get from a NON engineer running CEO), so we're talking Intel buying TSMC wafers today. Pat will fix it shortly (2023 I guess), but use 2022 for warfare at TSMC on AMD. You can count 2021 also I guess, as Intel GPUS use TSMC wafers also, so the wafer war already started. Force AMD to samsung for a worse process and laugh as watts go up, speeds come down etc. Leave TSMC AFTER you have made MORE fab space than you are buying from them to expand and then crush AMD with a flooded market and lower prices for awhile (no losses, just sold for less margin making selling AMD chips for INCOME very hard). Fast forward to their Mkap being under 10B again, and buy them since ARM puts out 2B units a year that are basically PC's and macs don't use your chips either soon. Nothing stopping Intel from buying AMD after toasting their value. FTC won't even blink at this point since many use their phones as PCs today, and again those macs will all be ARM shortly (no need for AMD FTC protection now).

    If Pat plays this right, AMD is integrated into Intel soon or just killed and sold for IP at some point I guess. I'd rather see Intel buy them than kill them though. NV vs. Intel for years then and throw in apple on cpu/gpu too now (would they sell to others? or Macs only?). AMD can't win a fab war with Intel while TSMC is facing many higher bidders. TSMC's job is to take the largest check and they don't care who writes it. Maybe it's time for AMD to STOP wasting wafers on stupid consoles that make peanuts for ~500mm^2!

    Stop making console chips and make HEDT/SERVER/GPU instead. When Intel is short silicon they move everything to server/hedt and tell celeron/pentium people (whatever the poor buy...LOL) to suck eggs. Ask Dell/HP/Lenovo how true that is. Why AMD still makes large chips that make $10-15 each is beyond me. It is LISA SU stupid. Bring back the Dark Mayor. He said KINGS before crap and they fired him 2011. Now making kings anyway (LOL), but making the crap too so can't make enough kings for NET INCOME. LOL. Dirk is laughing right now thinking about how much NET INCOME he'd be bringing in for AMD if he was still CEO. He wouldn't be pricing for SHARE either, he'd be pricing for NET INCOME.

    At this point if AMD can't get pricing right to make money, I'd rather see an NV/ARM vs. INTEL/AMD war. Sure most of us would end up owning both, but I just think AMD can't move Intel hard enough. Look at the wafer fights, NV at samsung (now forced back to TSMC for much of it), Intel buying TSMC wafers etc. Intel has been beaten handily for 3yrs and AMD did NOTHING with it but gain some share they are now losing again. Lisa went for revenue records instead of NET INCOME records. She went for share instead of NET INCOME also. Very bad. Too late now, but this Q will be good. But after this report? Maybe one more good Q (or two? Servers coming up should help), but then the TSMC wafer stealing starts hurting and Intel's h2 chips hit for real damage. I think they'll kill that H2 chip as fast as the Q1 chips. Intel has more in the bag, as Anandtech found out. They asked for the next two chips from Intel to be 10% IPC at least for each. The response was, too late those are all done and baked, we are on others. Intel FAB issues do NOT mean engineers just took 3yrs off. Nope they kept bagging designs that can now be outed and killed like mad to blow past AMD. Expect chipsets to go the same route. New sockets will be needed for higher cores that Intel didn't expect to be using TODAY (or soonish...whatever). Buying an Intel board? Just buy the top chip that can go in it, as upgrades won't be any better than my dead 8700k's board was the day I bought it (no upgrades here, new board for 8c).

    Yes, saw AMD's 1.7B+ Q this Q, but it's not real (1.3B was a one time tax effect)...See report for one timer tax deal (for the year too I guess which pushed them to 2.49B). But hey, they finally made a BILLION YEAR for net income...The only problem is, their stock price is for a Q report of 1.7B without that one time TAX help and for many Q's in a row that should be IN the bag already. NO surprise they lost $11 in the last month. You should have sold already if you read my posts Take that 1.3B tax deal out and PE is right back in scary range too. Just saying, Intel is the better bet for a while IMHO assuming they fail the GREAT RESET crap. If that happens everyone is broke (done on purpose), and probably nowhere good to hide your money, but Intel isn't bad even then (AMD however, OUCH). I'd say hide in Amazon/Fakebook/Twitter/Google but those could get all assets taken soon due to 2018 EO that trump basically invoked verbally in his Dec 3rd speech (does he have to sign it for miller to act or was verbal and DNI report enough?). We are in 2nd 45 days now where they determine how fraud etc was committed and who did it all. Then 30 more days to DECIDE what to do about those people (tribunals ending with firing squads for people), and also what to do about the companies that were involved ALSO (instagram and more in there too probably). The 2018 EO trump signed was specifically tailored to take assests and put traitors to death. IMHO we are just taking all the names down as they come out of the closet hating trump.

    http://navarroreport.com
    https://hereistheevidence.com
    But, why believe the republican side?

    https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
    When you can read TIME magazine plainly telling you how they stole it, er, I mean how they "fortified the election" for you so Trump couldn't win it again. FYI the state of AZ SENATE is forcing an AUDIT of all machines AND votes. So it might be a bit, but AZ isn't going to quit until we get receipts (which they already said are lost...LOL - then REVOTE I guess?). You can only keep this fake president going for so long people. Biden didn't beat Obama (800+ counties won) or Trump (~2500 won) with only ~500 and ZERO interest or campaign. He in fact lost this in a massive landslide and with all the evidence out now for decades (see the links) on election fraud, I don't believe Obama won EITHER election. Trump beat Obama by 10M votes with triple the counties won. Biden beat Obama with 1/2 the counties he had? ROFL, only if you're retarded. The machines clearly won 2012 (trump pointed it out in 2012 tweet IIRC!), but I think they did 2008 also (machines have been here for AGES). My guess is since reps won EVERY house seat they had up for election 2020, they really won the house probably by 20 seats or more. I can't wait to REVOTE USA (not one state or county, the ENTIRE COUNTRY PAPER only) or just declare trump the victor shortly. You can't win the lottery 100 times in a day like Biden did...LOL. 29 states with these machines, the rest have another brand, same story, same scytl servers to report to etc. Still waiting to see what comes from the RAID on Gina Haspel's CIA facility in Germany (note she wasn't at trumps meeting a day after reporting it). Anyone want to wager a bet on who has them? Already trying to cover up the guys that died there it seems (helicopter in egypt down with same casualties..hmmm.. Reported day after CIA attack reports? Odd?). For anyone not thinking there was fraud, just hand us the machines and the votes then. We can all count together like we were supposed to on Nov 3rd. What are you hiding them for? Why so afraid of a FORENSIC AUDIT? Why can't we even get the votes or machines yet in AZ? Again, what are you afraid of us seeing? Well, we all know why you hide stuff and Time Magazine pretty much says it all. I can't believe they put that out there. So brazen about it all. I'll be laughing if I get to see firing squads. Yeah, because traitors should be shot dead like the law says.

    https://rumble.com/vdf4nn-james-clapper-interrogation-2.html
    James Clapper telling it all. How long before we hear the rest of this interrogation? HOLY...He names everyone. Jeez, Judge Roberts pedo says clapper, Mike Pence also he said. It's clearly CLAPPER's voice. 8 minutes of WTH? We knew this was bad, but this explains why roberts has been voting against us since ~2013 (went to pedo island 2011/2012 or so?). He goes all into the island etc. This interview has to be hours considering many of trumps people sat for 10hrs+. What do you think he said for even 1hr with this 8mins being so freaking explosive. We knew they had something on roberts, but who knew so many pedos were in govt? Why would clapper lie after saying the exact opposite on TV hundreds or thousands of times? Wish we knew who did the interview. Anyone recognize voice? Clapper seems to be blaming others to some extent here but clearly stating WHOPPERS in the process (haspel probably singing now too no doubt). How many ways do they need to tell you they stole the election before you stop listening to fake news media? That is CLAPPER's voice. Either people start getting put to death (by law) or the USA is over. That said, with ammo out almost all over (guns too in places), I don't think the 80mil who got ripped off will go too much longer without using the bullets they bought for this year to fix this election if the law doesn't do it's job. I'm in a swing state, so this will likely suck soon. AZ is NOT going to let this go and others will follow once OUR evidence is out. We are getting the machines with another team to do the forensic AUDIT (not the team THEY chose for us, they're OUT now). The ~10hr hearing here was mind blowing with evidence. Comic reps actually had to have it explained to them that they had the POWER to subpoena the MACHINES...ROFL. Politicians are so dumb these days (probably bought degrees etc). Are we done yet? Everyone get there was FRAUD on a massive scale yet? Is anyone going to stop this before the bullets start flying? Which of course the "GREAT RESET" globalist Aholes would all love that as it would help them cover the RESET or all your assets...ROFL. Please start the TRIBUNALS, before my city becomes the wild, wild west shooting gallery. Remember when the GREAT RESET was a conspiracy theory? It's not now right? UK you listening? How long have you been trying to freaking BREXIT? You have the same problems! They fake brexited still, but how long will you all take it? You all up for CCP digital currency soon?? Am I preaching to the choir here? Time to get back to fixing a PC. Wasting time if you peruse those links and don't get this. I can type 60wpm so I guess not that much time wasted USA worth it right? UK? BREXIT!

  5. #37
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Edit: NVM, deleted. Way too much conspiracy nonsense to be worth starting an argument over.

    Chill out dude, and fact check your statements.

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    wow man, from silicon to statehouse politics this is like building Navi 21 on 90nm process. (in-fact here we know intel is too big but AMD is too big for us to stop supporting them)

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Possibly. 1 million Zen3 CCDs are only about 1,500 wafers though, while 4.5 million PS5 would be around 35,000 (equivalent to over 22 million Zen3 CCDs).
    Well yes, I'm sure they are kicking themselves now over the lost opportunity cost of selling maybe another million CPUs.
    But you can see how it can happen...

    "How many 5000 series should we make?"
    "Things are going well, double whatever quantity we initially sold last time. Should be enough."

    TBH, I would't have wanted to be the one making that call.

    Hm, between 60% and 76% that would mean that, what, 16% or so of 4.5 million working parts are waiting to be dumped? Woudn't mind some of those for a monster APU build!
    Perhaps they can undervolt and underclock them to make a Switch competitor?

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Perhaps they can undervolt and underclock them to make a Switch competitor?
    PS5 portable!
    Would certainly be a waste if that guestimate is anywhere close to their figures as otherwise they'd be throwing away over 600,000 functional but not-clocking-high-enough dies. The characteristics for undervolted and underclocked might actually match those which couldn't reach the high clocks. Certainly for normal overclocking high leakage can mean high clocks whereas for this you'd want low leakage.

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    PS5 portable!
    Would certainly be a waste if that guestimate is anywhere close to their figures as otherwise they'd be throwing away over 600,000 functional but not-clocking-high-enough dies. The characteristics for undervolted and underclocked might actually match those which couldn't reach the high clocks. Certainly for normal overclocking high leakage can mean high clocks whereas for this you'd want low leakage.
    Well that's what I would do. They can't make a PS5 Mini with those chips, that's the PS4. They could knock out a couple of CPU and shader modules at the same time for even better harvesting rates, and it would still be overkill for a 1080p mobile panel.

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Contracts are contracts I guess. I do still wonder whether the consoles actually come from AMD's allocation (I know we've spoken about this before). Either way, they're still competing for space at TSMC, it's just a curiosity. That 80% just seems... wrong? Leaving 20% for Ryzen CPU/APU, GPU, Threadripper, EPYC? They've surely increased shipments if anything, so unless AMD got 5x the wafer allocation overnight, I don't see where that 80% appeared from?

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Edit: NVM, deleted. Way too much conspiracy nonsense to be worth starting an argument over.

    Chill out dude, and fact check your statements.
    What i find incredible is that you read some (all?) of that text wall.

    Or even that someone would take all that time to type it for that matter.

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    Re: AMD in talks with Samsung to resolve chip shortages: rumour

    What can I say, I couldn't help myself! I only got a couple of paragraphs in and started picking but then after I posted I glanced further down and noticed how ridiculous it was so deleted the lot.

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