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Thread: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

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    Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    From August, it will reduce its Microsoft Store PC revenue split from 30/70 to 12/88.
    Read more.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Good move but how many games are bought on the Microsoft store? I use but only because of Game Pass - I wouldn't buy anything. Microsoft themselves sell most of their new titles from steam anyway?

    Still saying that anything that puts pressure on steam/apple/google to reduce the cut is good. These store fronts deserve a cut but 30% is crazy considering the sizes of the operations.
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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    If you go by writing "per cent" every time instead of using the proper symbol "%", why don't you also write "dollars" instead of "$"?
    Make your articles more readable please.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by GinoLatino View Post
    If you go by writing "per cent" every time instead of using the proper symbol "%", why don't you also write "dollars" instead of "$"?
    Make your articles more readable please.
    That's such a finicky pedantic thing to get annoyed about.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Good stuff really, not that I buy anything from their store (same approach as cheesemp here...only use it for GamePass) but this doesn't hurt

    As long as they don't take the anti-competitive Epic style stance and start bribing publishers to steal games from other storefronts of course, but that's not their typical MO really...MS prefer to just buy them out and still sell their titles elsewhere, recognising that the more options consumers have the more sales they will get

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    A purely symbolic move, but a good one nonetheless.

    Nobody should "buy" games from a store that won't let you own them.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Usernamist View Post
    A purely symbolic move, but a good one nonetheless.

    Nobody should "buy" games from a store that won't let you own them.
    That's OK, in the EU & UK we do own games bought from stores like this.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    As long as they don't take the anti-competitive Epic style stance and start bribing publishers to steal games from other storefronts of course,


    Every sales platform tries to encourage stuff-owners to sell on their platform by offering various forms of enticement.
    That could be seller protection T&Cs, wider interest, better support, or (as in this case) just more money. Shops do it, businesses do it, everyone does it and it's the same when it comes to employing people. It's just how the world works.
    Get over it.
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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post


    Every sales platform tries to encourage stuff-owners to sell on their platform by offering various forms of enticement.
    That could be seller protection T&Cs, wider interest, better support, or (as in this case) just more money. Shops do it, businesses do it, everyone does it and it's the same when it comes to employing people. It's just how the world works.
    Get over it.
    Epic was intentionally bribing publishers of titles that were announced to be released on steam.

    Not supporting their anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices by not spending a dime in their store is also how the world works

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post


    Every sales platform tries to encourage stuff-owners to sell on their platform by offering various forms of enticement.
    That could be seller protection T&Cs, wider interest, better support, or (as in this case) just more money. Shops do it, businesses do it, everyone does it and it's the same when it comes to employing people. It's just how the world works.
    Get over it.
    Yep it is, and thats all true, I do not disagree with any of it

    its the whole "thing is better for you gamers, we're doing it for you" bull that I can't deal with - it reduces competition, it reduces choice for gamers/consumers, and offers nothing positive for the gaming community.

    Exclusivity deals very rarely, if ever, have a positive impact on consumers.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifl View Post
    Epic was intentionally bribing publishers of titles that were announced to be released on steam.
    People are offered money to decline job offers and go work for rival companies all the time. There are entire recruitment agencies who specialise in this kind of 'headhunting'.
    It's only a bribe if it's illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifl View Post
    Not supporting their anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices by not spending a dime in their store is also how the world works
    Yes indeed, so feel free.
    But Steam could quite easily compete - They just have to offer the dev/publisher a better deal... and arguably, they're the only ones with enough money to do just that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    its the whole "thing is better for you gamers, we're doing it for you" bull that I can't deal with - it reduces competition, it reduces choice for gamers/consumers, and offers nothing positive for the gaming community.
    Well, in the years before Epic popped up and started doing all this I kept hearing about game devs that had come out with good games, and even über-mega AAA titles that sold millions, yet were still going bust and closing down or being bought out by the bigger fish and simply vanished... either way, meaning we lost a lot of support and sequels.
    It's one reason why Chris Roberts went crowdfunding for Star ****izen, so he was not beholden to publishers and game platforms.

    If this puts more money in dev pockets to help keep them producing great games, then yes that is better for gamers. At worst, it doesn't cost us any more than buying from other places.
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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    If this puts more money in dev pockets to help keep them producing great games, then yes that is better for gamers. At worst, it doesn't cost us any more than buying from other places.
    The reduced "commission" is definitely a good thing and helps the publishers (who may well then pass some of that on to the developers). The exclusivity rubbish only helps Epic.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    The reduced "commission" is definitely a good thing and helps the publishers (who may well then pass some of that on to the developers). The exclusivity rubbish only helps Epic.
    I agree the exclusivity only helps epic, but what does it help them do? in short they gain market share which is only a good thing in bringing actual competition to steam. Valve haven't done anything wrong but do hold a monopoly and have became many peoples default so it takes big swings to pull people away from that default.

    Its when people try to apply morals to all this when its just business.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Usernamist View Post
    A purely symbolic move, but a good one nonetheless.

    Nobody should "buy" games from a store that won't let you own them.
    But your happy with a OS that you don't own?

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Percy1983 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    The reduced "commission" is definitely a good thing and helps the publishers (who may well then pass some of that on to the developers). The exclusivity rubbish only helps Epic.
    I agree the exclusivity only helps epic, but what does it help them do? in short they gain market share which is only a good thing in bringing actual competition to steam. Valve haven't done anything wrong but do hold a monopoly and have became many peoples default so it takes big swings to pull people away from that default.

    Its when people try to apply morals to all this when its just business.
    I'm not sure why you think Steam have held a monopoly. Perhaps you could show us where Steam have stopped you selling certain titles on your store?
    Last edited by kalniel; 03-05-2021 at 12:12 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft matches Epic, with a 12 per cent cut of revenue

    How times change,CEO of Epic games:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ight-microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by Epic CEO in 2016
    One of the world’s biggest and most successful games development studios has launched a stinging attack on Microsoft.

    Tim Sweeney, co-founder of Epic Games, creator of the multimillion selling Gears of War series, has accused the Redmond corporation of attempting to monopolise and control the entire PC games market.

    “[Microsoft is] curtailing users’ freedom to install full-featured PC software, and subverting the rights of developers and publishers to maintain a direct relationship with their customers,” he wrote in the Guardian.

    Sweeney’s anger is directed at the newly announced Universal Windows Platform (UWP), a programming application for Windows 10 developers. Microsoft says UWP will allow studios to produce a single version of a game – or any piece of software – which will then run on all current Microsoft devices, including Windows 10 PCs, the Xbox One console and Windows smartphones and tablets.

    The concern voiced by Sweeney and echoed by other developers the Guardian has spoken to is that UWP is a closed platform, which means developers will need to be licensed by Microsoft to distribute games written using the platform. It could also mean that Microsoft will be able to control the sale of PC games and applications, ensuring that UWP titles will only be available through its own Windows Store.

    The unprecedented attack on the Microsoft’s direction by one of its most valued game development partners will be seen as a huge blow to the company. The Gears of War Ultimate Edition, a new version of the classic Xbox title updated for Windows 10, was one of the key draws at Microsoft’s recent Spring Showcase event. Gears of War 4 (which is not developed by Epic Games but uses the company’s Unreal Engine 4 technology), is one of this year’s most anticipated Xbox One titles.

    Tim Sweeney writes: “Microsoft is moving against the entire PC industry – including consumers (and gamers in particular), software developers such as Epic Games, publishers like EA and Activision, and distributors like Valve and Good Old Games.

    “Microsoft has launched new PC Windows features exclusively in UWP, and is effectively telling developers you can use these Windows features only if you submit to the control of our locked-down UWP ecosystem. They’re curtailing users’ freedom to install full-featured PC software, and subverting the rights of developers and publishers to maintain a direct relationship with their customers.”

    A key concern is that Microsoft is set to include and update features in UWP that won’t be supported by older development platforms. This means that games studios will need to support and use UWP if they want games to remain at the cutting edge of games capabilities on Windows 10.

    Microsoft has faced the ire of developers and PC gamers in the past. Its Games for Windows Live initiative, launched with Windows Vista, was an attempt to create a “walled garden” for the sale of PC games – it proved hugely controversial with gamers and game makers and the company later conceded that it “wasn’t the right approach”.

    Currently, UWP will not affect Xbox One development. However, Phil Spencer, the head of Microsoft’s Xbox Division, announced at a press event in San Francisco last week that developers will be able to roll-out UWP-developed games onto the console. Sweeney fears that if Microsoft upgrades the hardware of the machine at some point in the future, Microsoft could seek to lock down game creators to the platform.

    In response to Sweeney’s allegations, Kevin Gallo, corporate vice president of Windows at Microsoft, told the Guardian: “The Universal Windows Platform is a fully open ecosystem, available to every developer, that can be supported by any store. We continue to make improvements for developers; for example, in the Windows 10 November Update, we enabled people to easily side-load apps by default, with no UX required.

    “We want to make Windows the best development platform regardless of technologies used, and offer tools to help developers with existing code bases of HTML/JavaScript, .NET and Win32, C+ + and Objective-C bring their code to Windows, and integrate UWP capabilities. With Xamarin, UWP developers can not only reach all Windows 10 devices, but they can now use a large percentage of their C# code to deliver a fully native mobile app experiences for iOS and Android. We also posted a blog on our development tools recently.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...s-gears-of-war

    This isn’t like that. Here, Microsoft is moving against the entire PC industry – including consumers (and gamers in particular), software developers such as Epic Games, publishers like EA and Activision, and distributors like Valve and Good Old Games.

    Microsoft has launched new PC Windows features exclusively in UWP, and is effectively telling developers you can use these Windows features only if you submit to the control of our locked-down UWP ecosystem. They’re curtailing users’ freedom to install full-featured PC software, and subverting the rights of developers and publishers to maintain a direct relationship with their customers.
    An Open PC Ecosystem is a Vibrant One

    Valve’s Steam distribution service is booming with over 100m users, and publishers like Adobe, Autodesk, Blizzard, Riot Games and EA are operating highly successful businesses selling their games and content directly to consumers.

    Microsoft’s situation, however, is an embarrassment. Seven months after the launch of Windows Store alongside Windows 10, the place remains devoid of the top third-party games and signature applications that define the PC experience. Where’s Photoshop? Grand Theft Auto V? Fifa 2016? There are some PC ports of what were great mobile games, and some weirder things, such as the Windows 10 port of the Android port of the PC version of Grand Theft Auto from 2004.

    But the good PC stuff isn’t there, with the exception of Microsoft’s own software products. Does Microsoft really think that independent PC developers and publishers, who cherish their freedom and their direct customer relationships, are going to sign up for this current UWP fiasco?

    In my view, if Microsoft does not commit to opening PC UWP up in the manner described here, then PC UWP can, should, must and will, die as a result of industry backlash. Gamers, developers, publishers simply cannot trust the PC UWP “platform” so long as Microsoft gives evasive, ambiguous and sneaky answers to questions about UWP’s future, as if it’s a PR issue. This isn’t a PR issue, it’s an existential issue for Microsoft, a first-class determinant of Microsoft’s future role in the world.
    Then he attacked MS accusing them of hobbling Steam:
    https://hexus.net/gaming/news/indust...ws-10-updates/

    Yet,his company have ended up hobbling gaming under Linux more and more,and literally doing an about turn,on what he was preaching to the press in 2016. Yet he was acting like an SJW going on about the "evil compeition" of MS,etc and saying how we needed to protect Steam and other platforms.



    He then 3 years later,said consumers have no rights WRT to determining where they will buy games:
    https://www.thegamer.com/epic-boss-s...not-consumers/

    Epic Boss Says Developers Will Decide Who Wins The Game Store Wars, Not Consumers

    Epic Games founder Tim Sweeny thinks that users already have the best online store experience, so his platform will win by courting developers.
    Tim Sweeney, the founder of Epic Games, has declared that Epic Games will win the battle for best digital storefront based on its relationship with developers, not with customers.
    After attacking MS for "dubious" practices,they literally told our MPs data protection does not matter:
    https://www.theguardian.com/games/20...te-makes-money

    [QUOTEA Commons committee was left baffled as video game executives appeared to deny making money from their own games, admit to ignoring regulations governing data protection and age restrictions, and claim ignorance over how much time their own users were spending on games.[/QUOTE]

    “You don’t think it’s necessary to abide by data regulations by establishing the age of the people who play your game?” Lucas asked.

    “We don’t,” said Pence. Later in the hearing, Pence denied giving that response, prompting Lucas to suggest he check the record of the hearing.
    One of the biggest investors in Epic games is the Chinese company,Tencent - the same company involved with the social credit scheme in China.

    The negativity around Epic is entirely down to their CEO. Everytime he opens he gives an interview he digs a deeper and deeper hole for them. Instead of all his trash talk against the competiton that all their competitors are "evil" and they are the "good guys" they should just concentrate on their platform.

    Its quite clear,they are not turning a profit. That means not enough people are buying games on the platform,so they need to make improvements. Epic has made nearly $500 million in losses in 2 years,a lot underwritten by companies like Tencent.

    Yet despite all the criticism that Steam gets,its last sale was the biggest ever:
    https://gamerant.com/steam-valve-aut...ggest-revenue/

    This can't be all loyalty to the Steam platfrom. Other companies also have their own launchers and platforms like Battle.net,etc which are very sucessful.

    That indicates to me,perhaps platform maturity is the issue here.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 01-05-2021 at 12:10 PM.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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