Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 28

Thread: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,398
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,011 times in 715 posts

    Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    And, Microsoft confirms rollout of Windows 10 to 11 updates isn't due to start until 2022.
    Read more.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,227
    Thanks
    169
    Thanked
    281 times in 203 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Hmm, this seems like an un-smart move as what is exactly specific or unique for DirectStorage that mandates a totally new OS?

    Isn't it just a DX12 API?

    This seems an unnecessary restriction.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,902
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    178 times in 150 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    Hmm, this seems like an un-smart move as what is exactly specific or unique for DirectStorage that mandates a totally new OS?

    Isn't it just a DX12 API?

    This seems an unnecessary restriction.
    why else would you upgrade? Someone will hack it in and annoy users anyhoo
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  4. #4
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    30,579
    Thanks
    1,746
    Thanked
    3,233 times in 2,605 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    Hmm, this seems like an un-smart move as what is exactly specific or unique for DirectStorage that mandates a totally new OS?

    Isn't it just a DX12 API?

    This seems an unnecessary restriction.
    DX12 Ultimate apparently, but yes, I agree, seems like feature differentiation for the sake of it. It seems RTX IO is using DirectStorage as well so no respite there either.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,433
    Thanks
    489
    Thanked
    461 times in 319 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    I guess DirectStorage isn't working/enabled in the leaked dev build so there's no way to benchmark what effect it has.

  6. #6
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,314
    Thanks
    1,664
    Thanked
    1,261 times in 947 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    it's the same as no DX12 on win7 despite it being viable, and then pulling all the NVMe drivers for win7 despite that hotfix being released in what, 2015?

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,107
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked
    106 times in 95 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    This seems an unnecessary restriction.
    Like restricting cpu generation and forced tpm etc...

    As I've said in the main windows 11 thread, it really is starting to feel like the arbitrary restrictions are more about selling new hardware than anything else.

    MS doesn't make any money from the free upgrades, they do however make money from oem sales, so the more new pc's they sell the better off financially MS is too....keeps the oem manufacturers happy too.

    And lets be honest, most tech savvy people can already see that windows 11 is basically windows 10 with a fancy skin and a few upgrades here and there, nothing that really warranted a new version at least, but hey forced obsolescence is fine with mobile phones, lets do it on pc's too....

  8. #8
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,314
    Thanks
    1,664
    Thanked
    1,261 times in 947 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Like restricting cpu generation and forced tpm etc...

    As I've said in the main windows 11 thread, it really is starting to feel like the arbitrary restrictions are more about selling new hardware than anything else.

    MS doesn't make any money from the free upgrades, they do however make money from oem sales, so the more new pc's they sell the better off financially MS is too....keeps the oem manufacturers happy too.

    And lets be honest, most tech savvy people can already see that windows 11 is basically windows 10 with a fancy skin and a few upgrades here and there, nothing that really warranted a new version at least, but hey forced obsolescence is fine with mobile phones, lets do it on pc's too....
    I don't mind having to buy new OS and for them needing new requirements, but let's get back to the days of user control of updates and individual kbs please. MS are trying to copy apple and all its "ditch users after 5 years and make them pay again" mantra. The windows store is copying the app store etc. Their update strategy copies google. MS haven't had a decent original idea since 2010 IMO

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    11,463
    Thanks
    748
    Thanked
    442 times in 309 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    If they're working on Windows 11, why would any 'new' stuff be coming to Windows 10, makes little sense really, might as well just add all the new jazz and fluff to Windows 11 no?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,227
    Thanks
    169
    Thanked
    281 times in 203 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    This seems an unnecessary restriction.
    Like restricting cpu generation and forced tpm etc...

    As I've said in the main windows 11 thread, it really is starting to feel like the arbitrary restrictions are more about selling new hardware than anything else.

    MS doesn't make any money from the free upgrades, they do however make money from oem sales, so the more new pc's they sell the better off financially MS is too....keeps the oem manufacturers happy too.

    I have one line for issues regarding security and functional operations which makes one or t'other necessary.

    I have another line for issues being artificially manufactured and, from what I understand DX12 DSAPI, is purely software and requires no more than just a PCIe 3.0 (maybe 4.0 at least for interlink bandwidth). I equate this crap as similar to Intel requiring hardware unlock keys to allow different on system RAID levels.

    So DX12 DSAPI being restricted to OS version is one thing, TPM chip (or virtual TPM firmware on CPU) is wholly another and is less an arbitrary restriction because it actually functionally requires non-software entity to operate correctly. I would rather see better security between kernel and hardware, especially with the constant tirade of both Western and Eastern "hardware manipulation" goings on.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    And lets be honest, most tech savvy people can already see that windows 11 is basically windows 10 with a fancy skin and a few upgrades here and there, nothing that really warranted a new version at least, but hey forced obsolescence is fine with mobile phones, lets do it on pc's too....
    I've even seen quite technical people throw MS under the bus because the only objective difference they see is a different skin and ignore the possible ulterior/superior reasons why an new versioning was decided on (note: I didn't say, necessary)

    I don't see anything about Win 11 promoting forced obsolescence, I think that's just your opinion intruding on the discussion areas.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    2,510
    Thanks
    629
    Thanked
    566 times in 424 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    As I don't have a "gaming PC", at all, that makes me wwonder just how relevant W11 is to me?

    To clarify, I have a PC on which I play games but typically, my gaming these days is firstly, not any sort of priority, and secondly, relies pretty much on DRM-free games from GOG, etc, and I certainly don't chase either the latest releases or care about using the latest/grestest graphical settings. For that matter, as I have zero interest in competitive and/or online gaming and play singlr-player games, ultumate perfomance and/or latency don't much bother me. While I'm currently spec-ing a new PC that will likely have a GPU capable of decent gaming performance, that isn;t for the gaming performmance.

    Which leaves me wondering if I care about DirectStorage (or autoHDR) at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by HEXUS Article
    Already there are signs that it is removing the requirement for TPM for 'Special Purpose' systems, and for countries that don't use Western encryption technologies, like China and Russia.
    If so, that pretty much proves it's not so tightly integrated into W11 that the requirement can't be turned off or ignored when it suits MS which, a bit like the old W8 Start menu fiasco, suggests that if MS don't offer a way for others, in countries for which MS don't offer that, it won't be long before some third party comes up with a utility to 'fix' that.

    Quote Originally Posted by HEXUS Article
    ....

    The requirement for a very modern processor for Windows 11 support (Intel 8th gen Core or newer, AMD Ryzen 2000 or newer) appears to me to be a requirement for new machines from systems makers, which isn't going to apply to upgraders. Looking back at Windows 10 processor requirements via that link, I see that my old Haswell Core i7 desktop is not supported, but it had no problem upgrading to the latest version of Windows 10.
    Which sort-of suggests that an upgrade path will exist for non-TPM-compliant systems but still leaves me unclear about whether MS are intending to make upgrading 'mandatory' for non-compliant systems, i.e. slip-stream it into auto-updates?

    If W11 genuinely was a new OS, and worthy of the new "version", and was chargeable, they couldn't force upgrades. They can, of course, twist arms a bit by discontinuing support. And on that score, in case anyone wonders, no, I don't think they should provide free support indefinitely, or that even those that paid for W10 (be it buying a retail version, or paying for it in the price of an OEM system, like my Dell laptop, or Surface Pro) are entitled to indefinite free support. I'm realistic enough to get that if supplying support has a cost, it has to be paid for somehow, by somebody.

    But what now looks even less clear, if TPM isn't a hard barrier, is whether those with older non-compliant systems can 'hide' behind that if they are content, at least until 2025, to remain on W10?
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,107
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked
    106 times in 95 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    I don't see anything about Win 11 promoting forced obsolescence, I think that's just your opinion intruding on the discussion areas.
    It might be seen as an opinion but when you look at the requirements and what is allowed and then look at what isn't allowed to run (I'm talking officially and by the looks of it they may lock out non official hardware) can you honestly tell me an atom x6200FE is better than an i5-6600k (or even older imo).. that to me is planned obsolescence in the hope of pushing more new hardware sales which in turn means more oem sales of their os.

    atom x6200FE is 2x 1GHZ cores which have no hyper threading or turbo boost and no decoding/encoding for any type of media
    the i5-6600k is 4x3.5GHZ cores with no hyper threading, it does have turbo boost and decoding/encoding for most types of media

    Which of those is going to give a better overall experience to windows 11.... it's not going to be the atom is it, yet that is allowed to run windows 11 while the i5 isn't.

    Now TPM 2.0 is another matter but as I said in the main windows thread you can also do security in other ways (usb keys for example) if that's the main reason for it.


    But every decision on spec required realistically (although will never be admitted) boils down to selling new hardware, which in turn benefits both MS and the OEM manufacturers.
    Last edited by LSG501; 28-06-2021 at 02:09 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,227
    Thanks
    169
    Thanked
    281 times in 203 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    It might be seen as an opinion...
    It is an opinion, you have very little to quantify or placate your claim except for your objective view. Correlation does not equal causation.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    ...but when you look at the requirements and what is allowed and then look at what isn't allowed to run (I'm talking officially and by the looks of it they may lock out non official hardware) can you honestly tell me an atom x6200FE is better than an i5-6600k (or even older imo).. that to me is planned obsolescence in the hope of pushing more new hardware sales which in turn means more oem sales of their os.

    atom x6200FE is 2x 1GHZ cores which have no hyper threading or turbo boost and no decoding/encoding for any type of media
    the i5-6600k is 4x3.5GHZ cores with no hyper threading, it does have turbo boost and decoding/encoding for most types of media

    Which of those is going to give a better overall experience to windows 11.... it's not going to be the atom is it, yet that is allowed to run windows 11 while the i5 isn't.

    But every decision on spec required realistically (although will never be admitted) boils down to selling new hardware, which in turn benefits both MS and the OEM manufacturers.
    One has Secure Boot, one doesn't.

    I know what you'd like me to say and frankly, you're right, a CPU is a CPU is a CPU where some are better performing than others, some are still as capable as others, even more so than some "newer" generation models but I'm also not interested in splitting hairs over your awful example.

    You still have Windows 10 support till 2025 (will likely get extended), you'll have 10 years of your 6600k which is a dire straits of planned obsolence.

    You'll probably get a backport of DSAPI and other features because it's likely nothing more than a software compat lockout and there'll be enough complaints over the next couple of years to make it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    Now TPM 2.0 is another matter but as I said in the main windows thread you can also do security in other ways (usb keys for example) if that's the main reason for it.
    Because USB Key based BitLocker (I originally said Secure Boot, never existed) has been so successful with the standard user base, it is practically one of the most hated methodologies to be deployed and it's safer to just scrub the hardware and replace it with a newer model than use in practice. And a USB key is not a TPM chip, you're thinking of a BitLocker unlock key and unless a specialised TPM chip can be employed over a USB bus can be designed and manufactured, it's never going to happen and frankly, should never happen because of the serious implications of its loss or ability to be cloned. ("But Tabby, you can clone a TPM chip by hooking onto its JTAGs", yeah and you can beat someone half to death to get their unlock key too, it's all about the level of accessibility of a flawed system, ease of performing an adversarial attack without discovery and usability of the system by the general user base).
    Last edited by Tabbykatze; 28-06-2021 at 02:40 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    30 times in 27 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Windows 11. Free. Has new stuff.

    People still not happy.

    Negative news gets more clicks, views and posts than positive. Who knew!?

  15. Received thanks from:

    Xlucine (28-06-2021)

  16. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,227
    Thanks
    169
    Thanked
    281 times in 203 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur1814 View Post
    Windows 11. Free. Has new stuff.

    People still not happy.

    Negative news gets more clicks, views and posts than positive. Who knew!?
    While I don't disagree that there is no such news that isn't good for publicity and bad news is great for publicity.

    You categorically have shown you have nothing to add to these discussions, I'm sure you can make your own thread somewhere else to dump your facetious/sarcastic points into rather than cluttering up actual discussions.

  17. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    2,510
    Thanks
    629
    Thanked
    566 times in 424 posts

    Re: Windows 10 isn't going to get DirectStorage support

    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur1814 View Post
    Windows 11. Free. Has new stuff.

    People still not happy.

    Negative news gets more clicks, views and posts than positive. Who knew!?
    Just because MS doesn't charge for it doesn't mean it is a zero cost option or users. I told you in some detail of the vast amount of time involved, and/or costs running into the thousands, for me if I had "upgraded" all my systems "for free" to Win8, because not all software was supported and fixing that would take weeks of my time, and not all hardware was supported and replacing all that would cost me thousands.

    There is an old adage that applies here -if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    The question for any competent business user, and it should apply to home users too, for any computer (or other) change is .... what is this going to cost me, and what am I going to gain from doing it? That is to say, a straigtht cost-benefit analysis.

    Another example, in case you don't get that one.

    Some years ago, as a support person for a computer company, we had an operating system upgrader available and it was available to customers at zero charge. However, one of our customers was a bank, and the systems being upgraded were counter terminals in branches. The upgrade process would have required someone (probably me) to manually install every machine with, fitst, a BIOS flash, then an OS upgrade. Which meant a visit to every branch. But, they were in a secure part of the branch, which meant the bank would require someone from their IT team to be present because, otherwise, I could be installing anything to the machines that, among other things, controlled cash dispensers.

    So that "free" upgrade would haver cost my firm about 3 months of my time,and the bank about 3 months of one of their IT person's time. I could give countless other examples of the same thing.

    My PCs are tools, to do a job. They currently do that job. So, before installing anything, I want to know how long it will take, will it mess up my current abiltiy to do that job, will it benefit my current needs, will it give me any new capabilities that I care about or need, and so on.

    The fact that it is "free" is, to be honest, either completely irrelevant, or very near so. If it costs me an hour or two of time, it'd be cheaper to pay for a £100 upgrade wasn't "free" if it avoided that.

    As for "does new stuff"? What stuff? Is this new stuff that gives me any benefit? Do I care about it? And far more obviously, does it also (like W8 did) screw up loads of stuff I'm currently doing?

    From what I've seen so far, the "new stuff" includes things like rounded corners (nice enough but makes no difference to productivity to me), centre toolbar (pretty naff but can be turned off, so who cares), toolbar locked to bottom of screen (don't like at all, can't be turned off and a right pain in the proverbial but not a deal-killer), and a TPM requirement that will prevent it working on most or all of my machines(currently about 15) if, as initially implied, it was a hard requirement. That latter one suggested a choice, at least between upgrding with all the above potential implications, or not upgrading and by 2025, losing support.

    So please don't be naive enough to think that because the upgrade itself is supposedly free, it is without cost to all users, even it if it is without cost to you. Those of us for whom the cost, direct or indirect, have good reason to be cautious, and toask lots of questions. So would you if not doing so could cost you thousands.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •