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And Microsoft has suspended the offer of Windows 365 free trials, due to lack of capacity.
Defaulted to on is basically one step closer to 'forcing' the use of the MS store for all applications installed on windows...
I wouldn't mind so much if it had a pop up asking for OUR choice but this lack of choice is a bit too controlling for my tastes, especially because it can still do false positives.
Just go in and turn it off then? It's not hardQuote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
Some of these programs is developed by communities and has a use, if it end getting forced, people would get hacked versions of windows 11-12-13 and hacked updates to as well.
And then Optical drives and more may have a use again, in ways of having to bypass stuff.
This is much needed IMHO, and it's not as restrictive as saying all your applications have to come from a single store, plus there's the toggle.
Many many hours of fixing up friends and relatives PCs would have been saved if we'd had this years ago!
Microsoft are the only 'security' company that think qBittorrent is malware, funny that.
Ahhh, no this is very certainly not leading down to "forcing use of MS Store".Quote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
PUAs are exceptional vectors for actual applications that can deliver malicious payloads or are used specifically by malicious entities to perform their acts.
PSExec and similar ilk are immediately blocked on our network, this kind of thing should have been part of Windows Defender much earlier on to be honest.
One day there will be a version of windows were you cannot, this is another step in that direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandyJust go in and turn it off then? It's not hardQuote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
MS have stated they intend to bring their Xbox security architecture to windows, most likely TPM 2.0 requirement is laying the foundation for that future.
Also Windows 11 home requires an MS account to login.
One day you might even be banned from Windows or have services restricted like being banned from Xbox Live.
windows pro may not have some of these "security" systems but for how long will that last.
This is not a good development, all of the major American tech companies are increasingly becoming authoritarian gate keepers and the people coming out the US collages hired by these companies fully support this.
There is even an extreme sub-movement to make Linux usable only by those who meet their ethical standards but thankfully the open source movement has told them to go kick rocks.
The point is I shouldn't NEED to go and turn it off because someone else has arbitrarily decided it should be turned on, I should be asked if I want it turned on (with clear, simple explanation as to the benefits), not just assumed that I'm ok with it being turned on. It's not like they haven't had 'pop ups' when new things have been added/changed before.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandy
I said one step closer, and if you look at the longer/larger picture it arguably is because they'll continue using 'security and safety' as a reason for locking stuff down bit by bit until we have no other way of getting stuff on our pc's except via their store. MS aren't blind to the 'money' that can be made via a locked in infrastructure similar to iOS, especially with their market share etc, the OS isn't where the money is anymore, it's the stuff we add/use on that OS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
Drats, I thought this would allow you to flag Windows bundled poopware and disable it, shame...
Ah , I'm streets ahead of Microsoft. Got a big button on my PC to turn it off , can't do anything with it , load anything , even better they can't get at it. Lol.
I'm struggling to see your perspective on why this is "one step closer", this feature of PUA detection and removal has been a staple part of Anti-Virus software for almost a decade and it has genuinely amazed me it's not enabled on Defender by default like it generally is on many other AV vendors.Quote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
So no, I am confident that this conspiracy has no legs at all considering they are bringing their AV tool provided packaged with windows closer to the same base level as their competitors. That and if you install your own AV software, Defender is disabled and all that's left is standard Windows Smartscreen. The question arises if this is left automatically enabled once AV software is installed which I would need to test because then it would be an annoyance having two applications performing the same tasks (which is why Defender is disabled when an appropriate AV is installed).
I'm not known as being the greatest fan of MS recently, but I'm kind-of onboard with this one.
The problem, IMHO, is that it's hard to do a "one size fits all" option for this kind of thing. Personally, my preference is "ask me before blocking". Or perhaps better is, block, then ask me to confirm. And that'd probably be the case for most users of a forum like this. But a lot of users, including many home users and more than a few less than tech-savvy business users, are going to panic on seeing a scary-looking message about a form of security risk. Or, will ignore and override, not realising the danger.
Maybe in the future this might become a "nanny MS knows best" but it certainly isn't that yet, and I think it's probably better to target the default at the non-savvy because more clued in users are better suited to decide for themselves and go either turn it off, or set exclusions.
They certainly could, though, have done a better job of notifying people that this going to happen, so thanks to Hexus for pointing it out. It probably explains a cryptic message the wife saw earlier today on her work laptop, that disappeared before she could either call me, or even read it properly.
This is a good change to make, and isn't a step in the wrong direction at all.
You, as an end user can override this at the point of the download triggering or trying to open the application (depending on what point you reach) - you have to click through a few warning boxes, but ultimately it's your choice. Most windows users do not understand technology or IT to any large degree, and this sort of feature would have saved me many hours of fixing relatives machines every year.
I would also wager that most users will never even know this settings exists or need to for that matter.
Microsoft are not stupid enough to force everyone to use windows store, or to even just make it very difficult to not use it, with their GA versions of windows. They know full well that their USP right now is software compatibility and pretty much nothing else - so take that away and you don't have much left to sell...I think we're many years away from a walled off approach to windows being the main thing, although I do think they will push in that direction it's more likely to be through dedicated versions of Windows along the lines of RT.
I really can't see the fuss. Another damned if they do damned if they don't. To override it you have to click through a few warnings, and for 99% of users it's better that way.
This will never make you have to use the Windows Store as pointed out. That just wouldn't work, as pointed out again....
Us Hexites are NOT average users. There are literally hundreds of millions of other users that this will benefit
Personally I'm sticking with my view especially with how many false positives I've had and the frankly annoying (and arguably lacking in real information) process of allowing stuff in defender so we'll just have to disagree and see where the future goes. I still would like a choice before they make changes like this and that is the bigger issue to me personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
Either way hopefully it won't be abused to block things like EdgeDeflector which overrides the 'forced' use of edge from things like the built in mail app and could arguably be seen as a bit of software that has 'taken over' your pc.
Settings > Windows Defender > Potentially unwanted app blocking > Action: Off.Quote:
Originally Posted by LSG501
I really don't see what your fuss is about, Ubuntu (the most commonly used desktop flavour) and Mac have a built in Mail app, Edge isn't forced use except for the built in search (granted, they could shut the hell up when I tell it "NO").
I think I was the one that mentioned HEXUS, so I'll jut point out, that's pretty much what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandy
As for "the fuss", the thing that does somewhat hump me off is them silently deciding to change the default settings. Ask first. Or at least notify me you're faffing with my system settings, MS. And I'd stress the "my" bit in "my system settings". Not yours, Microsoft, My damn PC, m'kay?
Is it this setting? Not in particular, no. It's the principle in their penchant for doing things like this, and doing it silently. It makes me wonder .... what else are they screwing about with in my settings without me knowing? What, in their infinite wisdom, and raging arrogance, else are they messing with, after I've set/checked my settings?
Because if they mess with this because they think (right or wrongly) that it's a good idea, and without even telling me, how do I know when and if they mess with anything else?
Butt the bleep out of my config, Microsoft.
Everyone who does not like the option easyly can go in and set off the option.
And then next week, MS can apparently decide to turn it back on again.Quote:
Originally Posted by sinhaomar
If you know it's there you can turn it off, and if you do know it's there, and that MS have changed it for you, that the setting you thought was applied has been changed by MS without notifying you that they are changing your settings, you can turn it off again. That is what is so annoying.
I have been through a whole bucketload of settings, and turned off (or checked it was off) if I don't want it on. What I don't do is check it all daily, weekly etc to see if MS decided to change it. Do you?
Beat me to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bridges009
If they want to get serious about PUAs they can retroactively flag most of the junk that gets pre-installed by vendors on home systems. On the other hand, if they let vendors whitelist, that list will get abused. Not to mention that Candy Crush, in a vanilla Windows install, is a PUA.
Cheeses me off how they think they can control what you can do on your own computer.
That said tho, if they can add it we can hack it out, just as a lot of us did with telemetry and even windows lite paches.
Yet another ahole move by Microsoft.
I see this as a good idea that's been poorly communicated personally.
First I knew about it was when I updated qbittorrent (ironically to download a Linux ISO,) and it gave me the warning. I clicked through to the "thanks for the warning, install it anyway" option and got on with life easily enough. Left it enabled in case it picks up anything truly nefarious though.
Ideal solution would be a pop up after the update installed saying "we have this new safety feature, would you like us to switch it on?" nobody could grumble at that.
I can't see the big fuss either. More security in a default windows install is a good thing. This should of been enabled by default years ago. It used to require you to edit the registry to enable it or on pro versions you could use GPO or local security policy editor. Enabling it by default and being able to amend it in the settings it a good step.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcandy
Most antivirus products have enabled this by default for a number of years. I know that some vendors do ask if you want to enable it during install. Last time I used Eset it asked during install and explained what it detected. I am sure Kaspersky did as well last time I used it. PUA can be a heated topic as it can detect legitimate tools which could be used for other purposes such as remote access software, process monitor tools etc however I personally prefer these applications to be detected and I can then choose to exclude them if I want to use them. PUA are not generally False positives.
I use and will continue to use a little program called Unchecky when installing softwares.. Works for me !
Up to a point, I agree. I just think it's being done in the usual high-handed MS way. That is, silently, without user approval, or even knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud1
Part of my concern is the psychology of it. Even the HEXUS thread title falls into it .... a PUA is not an "unwanted app". That misses the crucial "potentially" bit.
A couple of comments above refer to Eset etc doing this sort of thing (which is good) but also explaining it, which is even better. In making silent setting changes, MS not only peeve knowledgeable users, but miss an opportunity to deliver a bit of carefully phrased education to the less knowledgeable. Yes, a PUA could be an obnoxious and even dangerous "unwanted" app, but it is also sometimes the reaction to intended and beneficial activity. Before just silently changing settings, maybe MS ought to put up an explanation poiting out that it certainly can be a sign of danger, butcan also be normal, and at least giving the user the option to approve the setting change (which can be default), or not, and a non-lurid account of what they're doing/recommending, and why.
I've spent too many hours over the years trying to wor out wh this or that is happening, only to find some setting has been changed by something (and by no means always MS) that's caused the problem. Over the weekend, it turns out something decided a .tar file was an image format my photo editing software should handle, not the compressed tarball it actually was (with a security certificate in it). I don't know what (though I have suspicions) changed the file association, but it sure wasn't me.
I would! I'd have at least 2 phone calls from the parents and in laws asking if it was ok or had they been hacked. I'd also probably find someone else I knew, thought it was dodgy and hit no (and then later got the junk). Ultimately Windows is a consumer OS, the same as Android and iOS. They have had way tighter restrictions for a long time. Heck this is lighter than Androids setting that allows for installs outside the app store.Quote:
Originally Posted by spacein_vader
If you want an OS where you are 100% in control go use Linux (and even then something like ubuntu probably does similar security decisions as it is also aiming to be a consumer OS). Microsoft want an OS that is, at least on paper secure by design and this is part of it.