http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2004-03-12Originally Posted by PrivatePyle
roffle @ Michael.
I thought apple only sold products to beautiful people, I have this vision of going into an apple store, and them giving me nasty looks and whispering as someone uncool like me goes to buy an iPod nano
Nicely put Mike. I think the rest of us can now get on with happily using our mix of computers and other technology related guff whilst other people sit in a corner and stick pins in an effigy of Steve Jobs!
Ps, neither my windows or apple systems have crashed in aaages! However an apple prog did do for windows. Damn itunes 5.0!
Not around too often!
pfft nuts to that. Nukes are for that type of view points.
Apples marketing is the best its ever been. Hence the iPods sucsess but in this thread its amazing how no ones been able to actually list a reason to buy one, they just start trying to bring this a whole apple hatread war, which i freely admitted from the start, i hate apple.
So i ask, how is an iPod in ANY way better than its competitors?
beteen on:
Price
Performance
Battery Life
Feature Set
Size
Weight
now, apple win on:
accessories (like an armband holder)
advertising.
Now there is a good reason apple go for people who don't own a PC, the same reason you don't see people saying how good apple are in a computer science department. They're more expensive, do less, more slowly, and have a locked down hardware platform. That bloody stinks. I don't want my experance to be controlled from beging to end thanks! I want to be able to choose from 20+ mini-itx boards, not just have only one mac mini. Man.
Now as for the PPC moving away due to speed limitations, yes, this is what i refered to as "bang per transistor" which is a less scary way of saying "bang per junction" which is less scary than "bang per nm^2 of die"
Now this thread really should be locked, apple people take a few comments which can't be refuted about the design of the nano, and it becomes a crusaid.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
The crusade would seem to be yours. There is no doubt that there are faults in the nano, especially with the screen. There may be better mp3 players out there, but its not apples fault that their advertising is good and that the advertising is non-existant for the others. Also, you can't call the ipod 'rubbish' because of your personal preferences, there are many happy users, including myself who have no problem with it. So get down off your apple loathing high horse and accept that many of us are happy with apple products. I am constantly amazed that people still continue these blinkered rants, it reminds me of being a kid! My c64 is better than your spectrum! Etc, etc. Just be happy that we are all here and using this technology, whatever your preference.
Last edited by menthel; 27-09-2005 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Spelling and a bottle of red wine.
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How is it not rubish? Thats all my question is. But instead your saying this is a peeing competition. Its not i just want justification of something it does better than the others (bearing in mind rubbish is relative, and i'm using it in the scope of all personal music players as a parent population).
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
No, rubbish is not relative to other products. There could be 2 examples of a type of product and they could both be rubbish. Simply, my ipod plays the music i want it to, lets me listen to my podcasts and has a good enough battery life for my use. It is therefore not rubbish. I think that is fairly simple tbh.
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Ah well...I guess it is cool to hate 'Apple'.
It is the same with Microsoft. How many people out there love bash Microsoft/Gates mostly cause it is 'cool' in their eyes. As long as someone or some organization is successful there will always be a group of people out there that *will* bash 'em. (Note bashing isn't the same as criticizing, bashing is a direct result of criticism with extreme prejudice.)
Still as Menthel has stated, Animus is happy with what he uses and we are happy with what we use. What's important is that we get what we want out of our systems, sadly too many people out there are so narrow minded they are not willing to give alternatives a chance
It is their loss and well...we pretty much gained along time ago
Last edited by bsodmike; 27-09-2005 at 10:10 PM.
okay i might just been plain aurtistic here, but:
say you had a horrific remote control, only could be used 30 cm away from the TV. But its the best on market, or that people can think of, therefore its brillaint.
until someone brings out one that can be used 5 meters away, so you don't have to have the couch so close to the TV. It then becomes rubbish, because of the other products on the market.
I would say to bash something, you have to be ignoring parts of the argument, in a zealot like fassion. I've kept asking for someone to say how its good in a logical manner.
I've not been told that. I've been told that everyone uses apple for video editing (something i'm going to tell the guys in the "Advanaced Image Processing Lab" next time im in there).
I've been freely admitting that i've NEVER been impressed with apple, so i can see why you feel its bashing if that is just defined by extream preduce and criticisim.
Another thing you guys might be intrested in, i designed, and made from scratch my own mp3 player, 2 years ago now. It wasn't remotely portable, i had used 2 PICs, a DAC with MPEG integrated, and had some rather bad scratching sounds. I mention this because most people who bash are plain ignorant of the subject in hand, and i'd like to say i hope you weren't assuming that mike
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Animus, nope and I infact am involved in a bit of work with PICs (3rd year Elec & Comp Eng).
The problem here is that we have strayed off the topic of scratching of the nano and gone into this very dangerous area of a semi argument discussion. Of course while that maybe the purpose of these forums, chances are that if we continue in this fashion this thread will be closed by some other mod...and that would be a shame
Also, if Menthel and I were to point out all the reasons (logically lol) why Apple is better it would take quite some time and infact it would be easier for you to (omg!) purchase a Mac and try OS X out solidly for a month. Of course if you still think it is 'inferior' and well sucks, you could return it under the 30 days money back guarantee haha!
Intresting, and well done for building your own mp3 player, but that still doesn't affect your, in my opinion, flawed arguement. A remote control that only worked from 30cm would be rubbish and rather pointless, whereas I beg to differ on my mp3 player of choice. Its size, battery life and functionality all make it a good product in my view. I feel that your views are the blinkered, zealoted ones in this conversation as I am happy to admit that apple is not the most wonderful company in the world, whereas you cannot seem to see other people's side of the arguement. An irrational hatred is a phobia after all!
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Firstly I apologise for any inaccuracies here, some of the info was pulled from creative and apples website, some is from personal experience. I am comparing models currently on sale by both companies..Feel free to correct me if i'm totally wrong though
I would say that the (normal, 4G 'proper') iPod's main competitor is the Zen Touch wouldnt you agree? So lets compare
Price :
Zen Touch 20gig, around £180 inc delivery
iPod 20gig, around £200inc
Performance - Not sure what you mean by this, but if you mean sound quality they are pretty much on a par nowadays (yes i have listened to both)
Battery Life -
Zen Touch 20gig - My friends who owns one reports arond 15-16hrs of playback, mostly MP3s of 160kps
iPod - i get 8hrs or so now, had closer to 10 when i first got it (mp3s @160-320kps) and new ones have up to 15 apparently?
Feature Set: (ignoring pointless things like calander, games)
Zen - WAV, WMA, MP3, USB2 or Firewire (not both afaik?), touch stripe, playlists (*note no lossless playback*)
iPod - Colour screen, Pictures, MP3, AAC, Apple Lossless, playlists, audiobooks, firewire AND usb2, no need for drivers...
(so basically similar feature sets apart from the Zen not supporting lossless playback..)
Size?
Zen is bigger @ 6.9 cm x 10.5 cm x 2.2 cm, iPod is 6.1 x 10.4 x 1.6 cm
Weight? Zen Touch 20gig 200g, iPod 20gig 167 g
And don't forget the iPods superior looks, much more natural touch Wheel rather than annoying 1inch touch pad (cant just keep going with the pad, can with the wheel.
Plenty of reasons to spend that extra £20...
(sry if the post is badly constructed but i think it shows my point)
Last edited by Spud1; 27-09-2005 at 10:28 PM.
Yea thanks Spud that pretty much works quite nicely.
I'd like to comment on something Menthel said "I admit that apple is not the most wonderful company in the world" (slightly edited to make it short) - This is quite true. Their customer support section is utter pants. I purchased a 15" Alu Pbook (As it came out) and I learn't a very good lesson, never buy a Rev A product from Apple! Apart from the fact that it died in 2 weeks I ended up flying back to Singapore to get a replacement in January (a full 3 months after purchase and having a nice paperweight)...I contacted the Manager Apple for all of Asia and she wouldn't budge and would not compensate in ANY way for the trouble taken in getting it replaced. Ohh why fly back? Apple has zero presence in Sri Lanka, just recently they got an agent there but they aren't "proper Apple"...
So even if the company sucks and they make good products, it is a small price to pay most of the time. However if you are lucky enough to know of a decent 'agent' (also called retailers) they tend to be way more helpful than Apple them selves.
you see spud is on the right track, that is how you argue with me, disjoint english points in an almost predicate logic style manner.
Problem is, i dislike the zen, i think creative thought "oh ****, what happened to our market share." Then copied apple. the touch strip is stupid. to small, to usless. i would of prefered a touch pad. with a + pattern. but nm.
Lossless audio on 20gig device is intresting feature, but due to the quality of the DACs on these devices, i would have to say its pointless.
compare it to an iriver, or a sony. (btw, i view everything by its flaws, thats why i love tablet pcs... there just so perfect).
bsodmike, i was forced, for a bet with a lecturer to use their apple laptop for a week solidly, i gave up after 3 days, wiped it, put OpenBSD on it, then used it mainly as a remote desktop client to the main server so i could actually get some damn work done!
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
So anyway, these problems with the nano are a bit of a bummer really, especially as they seem so promising. I expect as usual apple will fix it for the 2nd generation.
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...And if you want one right away, invisible shield will do the job!
More info here: http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=55463
Although, the Zen touch is around £150... not £180...mine cost £155 back in January...
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