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Thread: Moving a Beginner to Linux

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    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
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    Moving a Beginner to Linux

    If somebody hasn't really used a computer that much, one might theorise that getting them going on Linux shouldn't be too confusing. XYZ try it out...
    The presentation of Linux to a casual users will inevitably come with problems. Linux is not necessarily harder to learn than Windows but because we live in a Windows-centric computing environment using Linux is made harder than it has to be. People new to Linux will want to know why this new operating system is not compatible with as much hardware as Windows and why they cannot install Itunes (etc.)
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    Senior Member ajbrun's Avatar
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    That's a nice article, interesting read. I've thought about what might happen if I put linux on my parents PC, and have definatly decided they wouldn't like it. I've only just convinced them to move to XP, nevermind a whole new OS.

    I'd use linux if game support was easier. I'm sure directhex will be along sometime with his HL2 in debian screenshots - I'm not saying that gaming in linux is impossible, just maybe more hasstle than it's worth.

    I did try and expreiment with using linux a few months ago on a dual boot, but I was booting into windows so often, linux eventually went. If in the future, I either don't play games any more, or I have a non-gaming machine, I hope to be using linux then .

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    The first thing that gets me with Linux is the utterly bewildering different types available. I don't have the time to try 2 of them out let alone them all so it is difficult to find one that I like.

    No doubt the day will come when I move over to Linux on at least one PC in the household but I just don't have the time to invest at the moment getting to grips with it. The closest I've come is the odd play with Knoppix.
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Moving to linux because "spyware infestation" on the XP box is just bloody stupid. Just run them as a regular limited user.

    If you have the same stupidity of user on anything short of a trusted platform that happens to be exploit free, there going to get problems. Security by obscurity dosen't work for everyone on mass.
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    It's the biggest obstacle I think to Linux, that is getting people to out of the 'Windows state of mind'. However I still find windows is more newbie friendly, as far as software installation is concerned.
    But is Linux was the predominant OS I'm sure spyware & viruses would be just as prevalant.
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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus
    Moving to linux because "spyware infestation" on the XP box is just bloody stupid. Just run them as a regular limited user.

    If you have the same stupidity of user on anything short of a trusted platform that happens to be exploit free, there going to get problems. Security by obscurity dosen't work for everyone on mass.
    the windows security model is weak enough that a limited user can still get most spyware installed locally. the AD-based windows machines at the uni certainly seemed able to pick up enough different pieces of cruft from every user capable of clicking on setup.exe

    hell, try this one:
    take any known malware, name it program.exe, shove it in c:\ - then reboot

    as for the article, i have enough difficulty convincing my father than msie and msoe as an administrator are a bad idea. my other half is happy enough using my linux machines for day-to-day stuff (though will use her own machine for preference). linux isn't harder for 99% of users, per se, but it's different - and different is scary and confusing

    for what she uses it for, i'd have no hesitation to move my mother to linux, if anything to get rid of that feeling in my gut when she double-clicks on a random msoffice attachment

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Erm directhex, standard windows security settings don't allow user to right to C:\ root.

    a standard user can only right to their user directory and their startup area.

    IE with active scripting turned off isn't bad.

    If you move people without educating them, the problems remain. Remeber when all those hip linux kids used to call red hat, root hat? Because so much was super user by default. I'm not saying thats theres a greater chance of getting spyware on linux, that would be stupid, but i am saying there would be if sudenly every idoitic user ran over.

    If your uni is letting that happen, your ITS people need a kick up the arse.

    Myself i run a Damn Small Linux box, and some BSDs in my room for me use. Now my desktop, running IE6 (stable windows dev box). Has NEVER had any spy ware? How come? With all these wholes in IE? Surely i should be snowed under by now. I run as admin a lot too, because windows has this iratiting security model i can't get passed when i need more than just debug priveldges (which a standard user hasn't got).

    My farther, has yet to install a single peice of spyware, and he's as bad as users get. Just because he is a running as a "user" on an out of the box installation of XP SP2. Purely because he isn't running as admin. Thats it, thats all you need do, you needen't take people on a religous crusade who obviously aren't very computer literate or else they'd not be running as admin whilst surfing the web in the first place.

    Appologies for non-sensicalness, been up for 30 hours straight now, coding like a mad man! (in .net too, i supose that means i get spyware too?)
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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus
    Appologies for non-sensicalness, been up for 30 hours straight now, coding like a mad man! (in .net too, i supose that means i get spyware too?)
    actually, i rather like .net architecturally, and c# programatically. i have some microsoftpress books on it, as well as some stuff on mono and gtk#.

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    Senior Member ajbrun's Avatar
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    What would be the easiest distro for a parent to use, assuming they've been using windows for years? Does XYZ Computing have it right when they put someone on Mandriva PowerPack 10.1, or are there easier distros to get to grips with?

    Is Lindows (think that's it) supposed to be very similar to windows?

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by directhex
    actually, i rather like .net architecturally, and c# programatically. i have some microsoftpress books on it, as well as some stuff on mono and gtk#.
    Its great we finally have a good vml (java isn't good, sorry UCL your wasting even more time with kenya), the .net libraries are a little too massive in some respects, but its a really good security model, which you can see how much has inherieted from NT.

    Distro ease really depends, a lot of people thinks Ubunto, Knoppix etc are easy. Most use KDE and all have pro's and cons, some are horrifically insecure, most are built on debian to provide their "security updates".
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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajbrun
    What would be the easiest distro for a parent to use, assuming they've been using windows for years? Does XYZ Computing have it right when they put someone on Mandriva PowerPack 10.1, or are there easier distros to get to grips with?

    Is Lindows (think that's it) supposed to be very similar to windows?
    i'd say ubuntu - it's not pretty to install, but it's very easy to use afterwards, and provides a relatively sensible run-as-user-with-easy-access-to-root setup which works well for a desktop box. linspire, by default, runs everyone as root - BAD BAD BAD

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    kinda is similar to windows then
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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus
    kinda is similar to windows then
    i'd ask if you'd ever even heard of words like "competition", but i already know the contempt you feel for those who have ever tried to suggest microsoft's monopolistic business practices aren't to be praised

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    on a side note I gave my parents their first PC not long back - neither has used Windows really in the past, so as an experiment I handed it to them setup with SuSE. It took them a couple of days to get the hang of (which I would imagine Windows would too) but they're fine with it now.

    One of the reasons people think Linux is hard is that they've been using the Windows platform for years, and as such anything that handles differently is a challenge. It's the same with MacOS btw... (though I rilly can't get along with the Macolytes that ram it down your throat...)

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    ubuntu

    i have recently downloaded a copy of ubuntu 64-bit.. and the only thing that really bugs me is the distinct lack of linux drivers for .. things like my sata raid controller and my soundcard. so if anybody perhaps knows of linux drivers for the Via 8237 South Bridge or the Terratec Producer Phase 28 then please let me know i will be eternally greatful. thankyou

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    8237 ought to be fine - what won't be is any raid partitons (since it's not real raid, it's faked by a window-only driver)

    as for the terratec, it's supported by the (paid) 4front OSS (http://www.opensound.com/oss.html)

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