Region free Wii was a mistake

[Steven W]

Exactly - so why bother putting a region lock on in the first place if all its going to do is annoy the most loyal fan base ?
If people want to spend money on an imported game, I don’t see the issue?

Even though its almost certain that the majority of people in the UK don’t use import software (or at least, knowingly), I think that the region lockout also triggers off a mental barrier and an attitude of “If ive brought it – who are they to tell me what I can buy for it?”, even though almost everyone would never use the feature.
The publishers still get to sell the game, the big N still makes cash off the game, and the people who made the game in the first place also get a slice of the money. Please someone, just tell me what im missing here….

Think some of it is to do with the fact that, although Nintendo is ultimately one company, each region operates it's own cost centre and has their own targets etc..

Possibly they feel as though making it region free would impact sales in certain countries, although I'm sure nintendo as a whole would still be onto a winner.

Also they can maximise their profits in each region by charging those customers the 'going rate' for that region's economy. If it were region free they wouldn't get away with charging UK customers 180 because many would just buy it cheaper from another country, thus losing out on more cash and bringing that cost centres profits tumbling.

Probably totally wrong..just a theory.

[steve threlfall]

my over-sauced Whopper

hehe

At least region locking is less of an issue these days. With the N64 it was a different story. We had big titles coming out over here six months later than in the states (and their releases were after Japan). Admittedly that had a lot to do with THE (complete muppets). Luckily, Nintendo distribute their own products now.

[kalniel]

True, the UK IS pricier, but it's the old PITA/saving equation.

If you get an import Wii you're tied to importing the games. If you chip it, you've just invalidated the warranty on £180 pounds worth of kit... plus there's the cost of the actual chipping... IF they ever manage it.

However all of that is negated if you don't have region coding, which I believe was your original question:

Guys, can I just ask what's so bad about region locking in the context of the Wii?

So you've just answered it yourself

[nichomach]

Nope. Why would I? My DVD player is back in the UK... why would I want to buy a German over dubbed version of a film I can get in English back at home?

Firstly, Germany is in Europe, i.e. in R2 so that's probably a bad example. That said, I have a DVD of "The Battle of Britain" bought in Germany, with English, German or Turkish sound available on it. Not a problem. The same is true of a lot of far eastern films; they frequently have either English subtitles or sound. OK, anyone who's tried READING the subtitles in "The Stormriders" probably knows that's not so easy, but still...

What IS noticeable is that there are quite a lot of US released games that are sold at a huge markup in the UK. Now, localisation to English from, say, Japanese, I understand, takes time and investment; that said, how many games have you seen that have had any effort spent on localising from the US to the UK? So if what we're being sold is content that has already been localised to the US, and it's not even having minimal effort made to localise to the UK, where's the justification for the markup? And THAT'S why region encoding is wrong. The whole purpose of it is to abuse the customer.

[Blademrk]

Nope. Why would I? My DVD player is back in the UK... why would I want to buy a German over dubbed version of a film I can get in English back at home?

I've also bought US dvds which were unavailable here.

(Bad example, as the disc wasn't region coded, but never the less unavailable in the UK on DVD, despite having been shown on Sky Movies) A film I've been searching for for a long time called "Mean Guns" (extreeeeemly cheesy film, which plays out like a UT deathmatch with Ice Cube and Christopher Lambert, never-the-less, I liked it) I found it on Play USA for a tenner.

Same goes for The Guyver (was called Mutronics over here when it played on Sky) and the Animated Guyver series (all unavailable on DVD here. Well animated Guyver was a brief run which has all but disappeared and can still be just about obtained on video for £10 for 2 episodes - which is what I paid for the entire 1st series from Play USA).

not interested in those films? how about South Park from season 5+? the UK didn't even get to see south park after season 4 until Paramount recently picked it back up. And you still can't get the DVDs...

Region coding these stops fans like myself from watching these, as it's doubtful there'll ever be a R2 release of these films/programs .

How does this relate to games? well I'm sure there are absolute classics that will never hit these shores as TPTB* deem that there wouldn't be a market for these games (same as for those DVD's that I mentioned), despite there obviously being people who whould love to play them)


(*TPTB = The Powers That Be)

[Nick]

However all of that is negated if you don't have region coding, which I believe was your original question:

So you've just answered it yourself

Nope, sorry, you're not making any sense. Go to the back of the class and start of this thread.

Firstly, Germany is in Europe, i.e. in R2 so that's probably a bad example. That said, I have a DVD of "The Battle of Britain" bought in Germany, with English, German or Turkish sound available on it. Not a problem. The same is true of a lot of far eastern films; they frequently have either English subtitles or sound. OK, anyone who's tried READING the subtitles in "The Stormriders" probably knows that's not so easy, but still...

Yep, proves my point precisely and, while we're on the subject of buying DVDs abroad, I have just one question: Why?

How many of you have travelled abroad and actually said to themselves "Ooh, you know what, as soon as I get off the plane, spend three hours waiting for my luggage and convince the passport people I'm not Albanian, I'll go home and slap this Thai version of "Blidget Jones" into the DVD player?

I can understand buggering off to France to buy cheap booze and fags, but does anyone really, truthfully think about their DVD collection when they're on holiday?

There's far more to worry about on holiday, such as how many times that dodgy prawn cokctail has been put out on the buffet table and whether the girl you went home with last night has given you a present that will need a trip to the special clinic when you get home... not to mention getting locked up by the Greeks for taking photos near their airports.

I'm sorry, but DVDs just do not come high on anyones list. Zak is heading off somewhere warm in a just a few days time and I guarantee you the last thing he'll be thinking about is completing his Star Trek collection or getting that elusive Episode 4, Series 2 DVD of Lost.

And if you're away on a business trip, the very LAST thing you want to do is go shopping... unless of course you're just having a jolly on the company funds, in which case you and your DVD woes will garner no sympathy from me.

What IS noticeable is that there are quite a lot of US released games that are sold at a huge markup in the UK. Now, localisation to English from, say, Japanese, I understand, takes time and investment; that said, how many games have you seen that have had any effort spent on localising from the US to the UK?

Well given that many games are actually US orientated in their content, such as GTA as but one example, of course there's going to be little on the way of localisation... apparently.

But localisation goes farther than just converting languages... have you ever played a US released game and then noticed all those colloquialisms the Americans have, everything from the way they say 'Aluminum' (which is wrong anyway) through to menu and option screens being different to the standards we're used to... There's a lot more to it than just changing a few text files here and there... I know of one game which shall remain nameless, that had to have a near total re-write when being converted from NTSC to PAL... even to the extent of re-recording the engine noises as they were running too slow in the speed adjusted game.

So, other than being able to watch Japanese films in their original form with English subtitles, (has no-one heard of Film 4 or in fact, the rather cool late films on Channel 4 and now BBC 4 too, all free and all on DVBt?), or being able to play some obscure games, what's the problem with region coding?

Now of course, twenty people are going to come back with loads of examples of how they couldn't get a particular game, (as we've seen), or a particular film or program (as we've seen).

My one question to you, which would utterly validate your argument against region coding is this: Do you honestly, hand on heart, regard your demand for this product as putting you in anything other than a small minority?

If you're not sure, here's a quick test:

Go to the pub. Ask a few people in there if they knew that they couldn't buy Guyver on DVD. Ask them what they did about Chrono Trigger not coming out over here.

Bask in their blank stares, buy them a drink by way of apology and then reflect upon the lesson you've just learnt.

[awm]

Sorry, but I need to agree with the crowd. You cannot say that region coding isn't a big deal since nobody would import and say that companies have no interest in it. If importing was reserved for the very few die hard fans the companies wouldn't waste their time on it. Region coding exists because people want to import.

[Blademrk]

If you're not sure, here's a quick test:

Go to the pub. Ask a few people in there if they knew that they couldn't buy Guyver on DVD. Ask them what they did about Chrono Trigger not coming out over here.

Bask in their blank stares, buy them a drink by way of apology and then reflect upon the lesson you've just learnt.

but just because it's only the minority that want, does that mean that the minority shouldn't get? and does it justify the extra expense that goes with stoping the minority from viewing/playing something that they want to view/play?

[Nick]

but just because it's only the minority that want, does that mean that the minority shouldn't get? and does it justify the extra expense that goes with stoping the minority from viewing/playing something that they want to view/play?

Ok, let's look at it from a financial point of view, the same view that a company will take.

Are they going to make a profit, or even break even on the costs of bringing a product out in an area which they know that product only has minority appeal?

Even if localisation costs are minimal, as with a US produced DVD, you've still got shipping and packaging costs, time spent in certification, advertising, distribution, varying retailer margins etc etc. All costs which have to be made back before the product breaks even or makes a profit.

Very few companies are ever interested in breaking even, if you're not going to actually make any money, why bother?

So no, the product won't see the light of day if a company's research tells them it won't make a profit.

Want an example? How about Paris Hilton's new movie. It went straight to DVD because Sony knew from advance screenings that the film was not worth advertising or distributing through cinemas, so better to go to DVD and try and make something back from what is, frankly, a dog of a film.

[charleski]

Are they going to make a profit, or even break even on the costs of bringing a product out in an area which they know that product only has minority appeal?

Even if localisation costs are minimal, as with a US produced DVD, you've still got shipping and packaging costs, time spent in certification, advertising, distribution, varying retailer margins etc etc. All costs which have to be made back before the product breaks even or makes a profit.

Fine, no-one's asking the companies to make a loss. If they don't think some obscure piece of Far-Eastern trash-culture will sell in Europe, don't market it here. But don't slap a region-lock on it so that it's impossible for fans outside the core market to consume without jumping through hoops. Everybody wins in this scenario.

DVD is an excellent example: everyone and his pet duck knows how to bypass region-encoding on DVDs, yet this has not led to the failure of specialist labels that deal in local releases of overseas content.

There is just no rational argument for region control.

[Blademrk]

which is exactly my point.
I'm not saying market or even release it in the Uk, but simply allow us to import it and play it if we want to. It doesn't hurt the company as they haven't had to do anything extra (and they're still getting a sale) and the buyer hasn't had to resort to a pirated copy simply to play it.

[directhex]

90,000 import copies of CT were sold in europe

that's a figure that many domestic releases would be envious of. you can't say that doesn't count as demand

[Nick]

But did I ever say that they got it right all the time?

[directhex]

Fine, no-one's asking the companies to make a loss. If they don't think some obscure piece of Far-Eastern trash-culture will sell in Europe, don't market it here. But don't slap a region-lock on it so that it's impossible for fans outside the core market to consume without jumping through hoops. Everybody wins in this scenario.

DVD is an excellent example: everyone and his pet duck knows how to bypass region-encoding on DVDs, yet this has not led to the failure of specialist labels that deal in local releases of overseas content.

There is just no rational argument for region control.

i reckon microsoft got it right with the 360 - the console is region locked, publishers have the option of locking or not locking their games - and if they don't intend on releasing a game globally, they tend not to bother. that way, they keep control of who buys what from where on titles sold everywhere, but "smaller" titles that don't get released in japan or europe can be imported, leading to profits they wouldn't otherwise get

[Blademrk]

A good example I just came across:

Yie Ar Kung Fu, a classic beat-em-up from Konami (I originally had this on the spectrum) is coming to X Box Live arcade - as a Japanese exclusive (source: Peter Moore on Gamespot TGS Day 1 video downloaded on X box live). Incidentaly the next few (global) releases for XBLA are also mentioned in the video: Gyruss and Rush 'N' Attack from Konami, mrs pac man and new rally X from Namco.

I don't know about you but of that list I would definately rather play YAKF than another Pac-Man clone or the rally game (but that's just me).

Now, there are ways around the region-lock (like creating a new X-box live account linked to a japanese Hotmail account) to play YAKF but why should I have to.

At the end of the day who cares if a game is exclusive to 1 region? Does it really bother anyone in Japan that we can't play a 28 year old game on XBL and they can?