Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Vista upgrade issues

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,536
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked
    4 times in 3 posts

    Vista upgrade issues

    Over at Windows ITPro, Paul Thurrott has some good news and some bad news for those considering moving their XP PCs over to Windows Vista using retail upgrade versions of the new OS.

    The bad news is that Vista upgrade versions have two irritating flaws/features. The good news is that Paul Thurrott has discovered a workaround to these problems.

    More.


    Please note

    The title of this thread should have been:

    Windows Vista upgrades - the good news and the bad

    But, currently, the system isn't letting me use that title!

    We are looking into this (general) problem with message titles, of course!
    Last edited by Bob Crabtree; 02-02-2007 at 02:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member this_is_gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,854
    Thanks
    175
    Thanked
    255 times in 217 posts
    Thurrott has discovered that there is a two-step workaround that lets you carry out an installation of a Vista upgrade version without losing the rights to use a copy of XP and, better, still, without even having to have XP installed at all!
    So, doing things this way means you'll have a clean install of Vista - from an upgrade version - that didn't need a copy of XP and didn't trash an existing important XP installation!
    Are you and/or Paul Thurrott suggesting that we install Upgrade on top of Upgrade, without using XP at all? In my eyes, that's piracy, or at the very least encouraging piracy.

    I'm against Microsoft's decision to require XP to be installed prior to a Vista Upgrade, but I can fully understand why they've gone down this route.

  3. #3
    Senior Member chrestomanci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    1,614
    Thanks
    94
    Thanked
    96 times in 80 posts
    • chrestomanci's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus AMD AM4 Ryzen PRIME B350M
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 1600 @ stock clocks
      • Memory:
      • 16Gb DDR4 2666MHz
      • Storage:
      • 250Gb Samsung 960 Evo M.2 + 3Tb Western Digital Red
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Basic AMD GPU (OSS linux drivers)
      • PSU:
      • Novatech 500W
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Sugo SG02
      • Operating System:
      • Linux - Latest Xubuntu
      • Monitor(s):
      • BenQ 24" LCD (Thanks: DDY)
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTTC
    I am wondering how and if the Vista upgrade checks that the copy of XP that it is installing on is legit.

    People have got fairly good at fooling XP and WGA into thinking that a pirate copy is genuine. Can the Vista installer be fooled in the same way?

    (Not that I would attempt that, OEM copies of vista are much cheaper than upgrades)

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,536
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked
    4 times in 3 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by this_is_gav View Post
    Are you and/or Paul Thurrott suggesting that we install Upgrade on top of Upgrade, without using XP at all? In my eyes, that's piracy, or at the very least encouraging piracy.

    I'm against Microsoft's decision to require XP to be installed prior to a Vista Upgrade, but I can fully understand why they've gone down this route.
    All I would suggest is that your read the news piece all the way to the end.

    What I'm telling people there is that, effectively, clever though the workaround might be, it would be plain stupid to use it when it's possible to buy the OEM version far more cheaply and not have to do any messing around at all with dual installs.

  5. #5
    Senior Member charleski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked
    52 times in 45 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by this_is_gav View Post
    Are you and/or Paul Thurrott suggesting that we install Upgrade on top of Upgrade, without using XP at all? In my eyes, that's piracy, or at the very least encouraging piracy.
    The workaround that Thurrott suggests comes straight from Microsoft itself. Do you have an XP licence that you aren't using? Then you should regard that licence as having been upgraded.

    Is Microsoft's policy regarding the protection of its own products confusing and inadequate? Yes.
    Is this something new? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Crabtree
    clever though the workaround might be, it would be plain stupid to use it when it's possible to buy the OEM version far more cheaply
    But this is effectively a retail version of Vista, and we've been over the whole retail/OEM stuff more times than I'd like to count, heh.

  6. #6
    Senior Member this_is_gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,854
    Thanks
    175
    Thanked
    255 times in 217 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Crabtree View Post
    All I would suggest is that your read the news piece all the way to the end.

    What I'm telling people there is that, effectively, clever though the workaround might be, it would be plain stupid to use it when it's possible to buy the OEM version far more cheaply and not have to do any messing around at all with dual installs.
    Oh I did. I agree with the 2nd paragraph entirely though (depending on usage).

    [Aimed at charleski more] Installing Vista Upgrade, without losing the rights to use XP - presumably meaning the XP upon which the Upgrade license should be based on - can only be taken as inciting piracy. If you have 2 XP licenses lying around (at least 1 of which will no doubt be in use), then fair enough, but how many have 2 XP licenses?

    If we're just upgrading, then there's no issue, though I guess the fine-print of that comes down to what the EULA says.

  7. #7
    Senior Member charleski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked
    52 times in 45 posts
    this_is_gav: If you want to cheat by using an upgrade version without a previous licence, then that's a decision you make, and you alone. The fact that the enforcement of the requirements is inadequate does nothing to absolve you of the burden of that decision. If you want to use this workaround to use the upgrade version without a previous licence, then that's your decision.

    If Thurrott said, "Hey guys, don't bother buying the full version, you can use this without a previous licence," then that would be incitement to piracy. But he didn't, so I think you're really just putting words in his mouth that he wouldn't appreciate. Paul Thurrott has been around a long time and has very close ties to Microsoft, which is where he gained the info he posted, so I think you're going very far out on a limb here.

    Personally, I have 4 separate XP licences of various types and 1 Win2k licence.

  8. #8
    Senior Member this_is_gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,854
    Thanks
    175
    Thanked
    255 times in 217 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by charleski View Post
    this_is_gav: If you want to cheat by using an upgrade version without a previous licence, then that's a decision you make, and you alone. The fact that the enforcement of the requirements is inadequate does nothing to absolve you of the burden of that decision. If you want to use this workaround to use the upgrade version without a previous licence, then that's your decision.

    If Thurrott said, "Hey guys, don't bother buying the full version, you can use this without a previous licence," then that would be incitement to piracy. But he didn't, so I think you're really just putting words in his mouth that he wouldn't appreciate. Paul Thurrott has been around a long time and has very close ties to Microsoft, which is where he gained the info he posted, so I think you're going very far out on a limb here.

    Personally, I have 4 separate XP licences of various types and 1 Win2k licence.
    At no point have I even slightly suggested I would pirate this or anything, so I don't know where you've got that from. Working in a school as I do, I have access to all sorts of discounts and even free licenses, so I have no need to pirate.

    I've merely picked out some parts of the argument, namely that you can use the Upgrade license whilst it is suggested to still use the existing XP license you're supposed to be upgrading. There's no 2 ways about it - that would be piracy.

    I just struck me as rather hypocritical, as if we were to discuss this in Hexus.binaries, our post would have been edited.

    Yes, perhaps I'm going a wee bit OTT, but the fact is that running XP and the Vista Upgrade would be breaking the terms of the EULA, and as such, you wouldn't have a license, unless you had 2 XP licenses in your possession (which both you and I seemingly have).

  9. #9
    Senior Member charleski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked
    52 times in 45 posts
    Paul Thurrott is a well-respected professional writer who's been providing insights into how to get the best out of Windows for over a decade. Accusing him of abetting piracy by posting information on how to work around an installer flaw is just wrong, that's all there is to it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member this_is_gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,854
    Thanks
    175
    Thanked
    255 times in 217 posts
    Whether it's Thurrott or Hexus I'm quoting, the fact remains. I couldn't care how well respected he is in your mind. He's not a God, he's just a guy like the rest of us (and gals of course). Are you suggesting everything he writes is sacred?

    He even chastises UAC, probably the best feature of Vista, even MC, which is a great improvement over the XP variant.

    He's a very knowledgeable guy, one who knows his background, and I've read his pieces for years now, but he's always been extremely opinionated, and for that, I certainly can't label him professional. I take his views with a pinch of salt, and form my own opinion around them - it's not something most people seem to do with him.

    I'm sure neither he nor Hexus deliberately supported or suggested piracy, but it's there in black and white.

  11. #11
    Senior Member charleski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked
    52 times in 45 posts
    I'm suggesting your notion that he's 'inciting piracy' is ridiculous and on the same level as trying to prevent the teaching of machine code in case someone might use it to code a rootkit. This whole discussion has become absurd, but some people just have great difficulty in admitting they were wrong.

  12. #12
    Senior Member this_is_gav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,854
    Thanks
    175
    Thanked
    255 times in 217 posts
    Wrong? You really can't let something go, can you?

    I never said anything about deliberately inciting it - it could well be inadvertent, and for the majority of the articles they are indeed is just pointing out a flaw. But comments like the quoted are only going to do one thing.

    Tell me how else you can interpret: "lets you carry out an installation of a Vista upgrade version without losing the rights to use a copy of XP".

    Fact: the moment you install the upgrade, with or without an inplace XP installation you lose every right to use that XP license. There isn't 2 ways about it. That's the way it is.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,536
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked
    4 times in 3 posts
    Peeps - let's just agree to disagree, eh?

    Bob

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Windows Vista retail doomed unless Microsoft cuts prices?
    By Bob Crabtree in forum HEXUS News
    Replies: 132
    Last Post: 02-04-2007, 01:05 PM
  2. When are you going to upgrade to vista?
    By teachmech in forum Software
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 25-01-2007, 08:34 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 31-08-2006, 01:37 PM
  4. Windows Vista Hardware Tax
    By Matt1eD in forum Software
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 21-09-2005, 08:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •