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AMD looks to corner high-end graphics market.
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AMD looks to corner high-end graphics market.
Nice review Hexus - like the Trusty Table(TM) ;)
The cards are pretty good too - minus that driver issue on one of the games - to already be doing so well on bang4buck/watt is a good sign. Looks like there's room for nVidia to target between the 7800 series and 7900 series though - guess that's where the gk104 is going to slot in nicely - lots of choice for the consumer, but could do with two equal cards to drive competition!
awesome review - as allways :D
now - is it me or is there a huge hole in AMD prices? between the 7770 @ £120 and the 7850@ £190
and , will there be a review in CF? would be ncie to see how these compare to 5850/6850 etc in CF
good card
Good review, and well written too. :)
I'm very tempted to order two HD 7850s when they become available, but my wallet tells me to wait for Kepler in hope of slightly lower prices. If the HD 7850 were £165, it'd be irresistible. The currently proposed price, £185, puts it right at the top end of what's acceptable to many mainstream buyers (from my perspective, at least).
P.S. Full stop missing, I believe, on p. 2 ('... forth benchmarks[.] AMD supplied HEXUS ...') and p. 12 (' ... taken into account[.] The graph ...'). I wouldn't normally be so anal as to point such out, but considering the review has such good overall grammar and punctuation, I thought the editor might care to know. :)
These launches are the bane of my working life. AMD dropped this on us just before the launch of the CeBIT trade show - we're out in Germany now - so the premise with this kind of review is to give you, the readers, a well-balanced, informative and in-depth editorial evaluation in the face of stringent time pressures. And I also need to clean my monitor!Quote:
Originally Posted by ZSTom
Anyway, there are more Radeon HD 7800-series goodies coming up... including an examination of the progression made by AMD when moving from Radeon HD 5850 to HD 6850 to HD 7850, evaluated with the GPUs running at the same frequencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalloweenJack
Prices will drop very quickly when Nvidia bring out their new 2012 models. AMD are milking the price for now - which makes business sense. I think the 7850 will drop down to £150 price within a 3 - 4 months, pending Nvidia's release dates and models.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZSTom
bit tech`s own 6850 review priced it at £150 , and i do think APPLE are a reason for these prices - huge contracts for 28nm production(they wanted TSMC to go apple exclusive)
Assuming that AMD doesn't change the MSRP in the next two weeks, which is unlikley, I'd take my hat off and eat it if add-in partners and retailers released HD 7850s at £150.
£175 is the lowest it'll go, IMHO, until mainstream Kepler strikes.
aye they want as much as they can whilst `top dog` before prices head south
You love it really ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarinder
If I weren't impressed with the article I would have never bothered mentioning. :thumbsup: Doing a great job! Not to sound too dull (too late) but the level of grammar, punctuation and general journalism here at Hexus is refreshingly high. Most sites... well, anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarinder
Looking forward to future articles/reviews! In regards to the HD 7850, I'll likely be favouring Sapphire for my purchase, or possibly MSI's Twin Frozr III, so will be especially interested anything comes up about those. :)
£150 would make the 7850 a very popular card, I'm sure! I just don't think I can wait 3–4 months... I've been chomping at the bit just waiting for the March release! I guess at £185 it still offers a pretty good deal over the 6950... Considering the price of 77xx cards I was half expecting the 7850 to be £200 or more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewster0101
Looking forward to that one. Rumour has it you might well have another gpu of the green variety dropped on you soon as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarinder
Feeling pretty underwhelmed, especially after looking at the Anandtech review that includes numbers for a 5870. I've got a 5870 that's overclocked by about 10%, and despite being a card that's two and half years old, I'm yet to see anything that's really worth upgrading to. AMD are asking similar (possibly more? Can't remember) money to what I paid ~2 years ago for something that is only marginally better in most cases. :eek:
If you bought a 5870 new you probably paid £300 for it at best, and that was only if you got it in the first 2 weeks otherwise it was probably £330 at best. The 7870 is actually very good value at £260 but we've been spoiled by an ongoing price war between AMD and Nvidia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraz
The 7850 too is a lot faster and a bit cheaper than the 5850 was. I paid £210 for my 5850 and that was before the price rose to ~£240 after 2 weeks.
I think these are priced pretty fairly - don't forget they both have double the VRAM as well. I'd have given them 4 stars, I mean come on the gtx 580 got 4 stars http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphi...review/?page=2 while costing £400.
There really has been a lot made about AMD's prices and I feel that they are justified in the cases of Tahiti and CV, but not for Pitcairn.
The HD7850 1GB is the fastest card for between £150 to £200 and makes the HD6950 1GB and 2GB look redundant now. The HD7870 1GB is somewhat more expensive than I expected but still makes the HD6970 2GB and GTX570 look redundant too.
I still don't understand why the HD7850 2GB is getting only 3.5/5 from Hexus, with a value score which is the same as a GTX560TI?? Not only is it faster,but consumes less power and has 2GB of VRAM. Why not rate both the HD7850 2GB and HD7870 2GB separately?
The 5870 was a bargain by nearly all accounts - you did well there (he says, still running a 4870 nearly four years after that was released..) but that's the nature of graphics cards, or more likely, games, these days. A 580 isn't a huge increase over your 5870, and that's still selling for ridiculous money. The 7870 is near enough the same as a 580, for significantly less money, power, heat etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraz
I wasn't expecting it to be that good, it's grabbed my attention which was otherwise on the 7950, but this seems much more lean - less compute, but more power in the areas that matter most to games. I like the sound of DX10 SSAA as well. Now they just need to get VCE working and put up a good fight to Kepler.
CAT
the 7850`s are near £200 than 150 ; £190 on pre order from ebuyer
According to Hexus the price is £185 and at that price Hexus puts it as similar value to a GTX560TI,although my statement is still true!! :p The cheapest GTX560TI I have found is £155 on Ebuyer not £150 too.Quote:
Originally Posted by HalloweenJack
There is a Palit GTX560TI 448 for around £196 which is 5.6% faster for a 3.2% increase in price over the £190 HD7850 2GB. However,the HD7850 2GB has more VRAM,lower power consumption and quite low PSU requirements too.
I can see the GTX560TI 448 dropping in price now TBH,to tempt customers away from the HD7850.
Wow!!
I just looked at the HD7850 2GB power consumption figures. I knew they were decent but compared to the GTX560TI 448 there is a huge difference.
http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_car...nist/Power.png
Compare these prices to the £240 launch price of the 560 ti 448 core - http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/...-availability/
Or the £200 launch price of the 560 Ti - http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/...-availability/
I can't see where people are getting the idea that these cards are overpriced from.
I think I've also been massively spoiled by the £140 I spent on a 5870, even now it's still great value for money.
These cards do seem to have unusually low results for Batman on Hexus, compare to Anandtech where the results are comparable to other games. Are you using the built-in benchmark or running your own? Of course, it depends massively where you're standing if you're doing it yourself, frame rate can plummet if you step from a plain room to an outside area with lots of complex textures.
Edit: Oh and the Ebuyer prices are for non-reference cards by the looks of it, I'd expect cheaper models to start appearing soon.
Excellent review as always and it couldn't have been said better. AMD seems to be struggling at the mo but it feels like they've shat on the comsumer (can I say that here?) with the higher prices and lack of advancement, apart from lower power draw, because they're waiting on keplar.
Well it seems my predictions weren't far off the mark...except:
- They're charging £10-20 more for the 7870 than I expected
- It's power consumption is lower than I expected
- I didn't consider the two card seperately
Seems they've set themselves the challenge of "7850 must best the 560 Ti" and "7870 must best the 570", which they do, but as others have pointed out, for a slightly higher price.
GTX 560 Ti (original) = £155 approx. (Ebuyer / MSI Ice-Q OC)
HD 7850 = £190 approx. (Ebuyer / Sapphire)
GTX 570 = £252 (Scan Today Only / EVGA or MSI)
HD 7870 = £270 (Ebuyer / Sapphire)
I'd imagine the 7850 would be much more competitive at £170 ir less, and the 7870 at £230 or less. Wouldn't really interest me at the current prices to be honest.
Good review and i have to say these cards are looking good, a solid release by AMD and it can only get better... its such a tiny die so yields and overall cost should be minimal in comparison to Nvidia and AMD southern islands.
Price vs performance is OK/Good enough at the minute, its really hard to give it a beating over the price as its launched competitively, youd buy the 7000 series over every card(unless you hate drivers!) because it performs a bit better and uses alot less power, cost is similar, thats exactly what any normal business would do, its good logic :D.
No point in AMD selling the 7870 at launch for £120 if they only make £20, sure it would rape in price performance but this is the best period for AMD, it beats cards in every respect and Nvidia is still months away from releasing theirs, AMD need to recoup development costs ASAP, soon as they recoup a significant amount then when Nvidia drops kepler then they can drop the price like a stone (if it needs to :P) and make a reasonable year from their card.
If they just left it at a low price then they would only be able to knock £20 off the cards when Nvidia release kepler as they still have to get those expenses back, that could make Nvidia be top again!. I hope kepler is good though, purely because it will make the cards drop in price :), my gtx460 is getting a bit long in the tooth!
(back onto the review)
What gets me about these results though is how close it is to a 7950 in games, its had huge cuts and really it should have a bigger gap than it has, im thinking the 7950 is really sitting half idle for some games with a lack of proper optimisation. Specifically BF3, its less than 1fps difference.
edit: Oh dear im a froob, cant think why but i thought the 7950 was at 1ghz... lol! Clearly read to much in the overclocking area :D. Although looking at a 7950 at 925mhz vs the stock 7870 there is about 5FPS in it, still not enough of a difference for me to feel that theres ALOT of untapped potential in drivers from AMD and possibly from DICE
I guess overall i like this new series, if i was a new buyer (i.e no card yet) i would be happy but im not really getting lured into the "OMG MUST BUY NOW!!!" stuff, I wanted to dump £300 on a new gpu after being disapointed moving to the gtx460 sli(didnt get on with driver instability and microstutter!) i went back to my single 460, still waiting for something that can play bf3 on max at 1920 @ 60fps+, i dont think this is going to happen this generation(dont want multicards), so i guess im stuck waiting for the 8000/700 series as they should provide solid improvements. Hate waiting :P.
Yep, it's not unlike the 560ti vs 570. The former was massively smaller, but punched well in games. The latter has a lot of compute related stuff that doesn't help out in games. Same with the 7800 series vs 7900.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks12
Based on the feedback in this thread and having re-evaluated the value/efficiency proposition put forward by these two cards, I've upgraded the final score to 4/5.
I still having the nagging feeling that, knowing the small-die nature of these cards, AMD will take 10-15 per cent off the price as soon as Kepler arrives. This, to me, means they're hard to recommend without reservation, though I fully concede that they would be my choice if I had to buy a £150-£250 card right now.
Thats all you can do Tatrinder, with tech id say its hard to recommend anything if you think about whats next, simply put if the customer can wait then its always better (unless natural disasters etc).
So knowing that i think its wise to just ignore it all and when recommending a card, compare it whats out today. As thats what it has to compare to :D.
I think you're right on the money with 10 - 15% cuts, its clear it will happen as at the minute they're just milking it to recoup any costs as quick as they can, they launched it comparatively and as soon as kepler is out it will be moved to a competitive pricing instead of relying on slightly better performance and better power usage.
And yeah Kalniel i think that would be the reason behind it :(, its a shame that most games can make use of these powerhouses... even BF3 which was relatively well developed! Maybe in the next few years this will happen when we have the CPU and GPU working 100% in tandem.
That's a dangerous game to play Tarinder :p Usually first impressions are the most accurate and you shouldn't be swayed by public opinion. Though I completely understand the time pressures of this particular review might mean you prefer to have some scope for readjustment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarinder
Agree on both counts. AMD need to be able to increase margins with some of their products though - they've had years of having to provide the value argument because they've failed to win the performance one. While we customers always want more for less, the pricing is very logical across the range (something like $100, $150, $250, $350, $450 and $550), and that range has all appeared within a very short timespan (only missing the dual GPU card). We've also seen that when AMD price their products too low retailers just increase their margins anyway and customers don't get any saving.Quote:
I still having the nagging feeling that, knowing the small-die nature of these cards, AMD will take 10-15 per cent off the price as soon as Kepler arrives. This, to me, means they're hard to recommend without reservation, though I fully concede that they would be my choice if I had to buy a £150-£250 card right now.
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/s...formoney-1.png
Bang4buck using Hexus figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by cptwhite_uk
GTX560TI 1GB= 143/155 = 0.923
HD7850 2GB = 173/190 = 0.911
Bang4buck using Hexus figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by cptwhite_uk
GTX570 = 204/252 =0.810
HD7870 2GB = 220/270 =0.815
GTX560TI 448 = 188/196 = 0.96
However,the GTX560TI 448 consumes over 100W more at load when compared to an HD7850 2GB and has less VRAM too.
TBH,since I don't like spending over £150 on a graphics card, and HD7870 2GB would be nice for that price. However,I suspect I might wait somewhat longer!! ;)
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cptwhite_uk
It's more a readjustment of personal opinion after looking at all the stats and pre-order pricing with fresh eyes, Kalniel.
I was vacillating between 3.5 and 4, frankly, and the 'reasonable' pre-order pricing has made my mind up. Really, I was worried that partners would have these cards on pre-order for £300 and £200-plus for HD 7870 and HD 7850, respectively. It's good to see that they haven't.
As pointed out by Anand, the 78xx and 79xx cards have a similar frontend and the same number of ROPs so the relatively high clockspeed of the 78xx series can really help if either of those are a bottleneck for a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalniel
Where is there a GTX 560 Ti 448 core for £196 CAT :D
Edit: Ignore I found it :)
http://www.ebuyer.com/320365-palit-g...edium=products
Repeat post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptwhite_uk
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/s...culasaurus.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
I think your tin foil hat has some holes in it. Must be cheap tin foil.
You do seem like the hardest working man in hexus Tarinder, and that includes my brother ;p
Do we know anything of availability? See, I thought these cards were supposed to actually be released this week, as in to the public. However I have seen elsewhere that people are saying 19th March will be the earliest you can buy one, which would be a huge ball buster, though it would force me to wait til nVidia show their cards.
It is annoying how AMD seem to release their cards if this is true. I'm being teased with benchmarks 2 weeks before I can actually get a card grr.
Minor point but in the last performance-per-watt table it's missing the 6870's 0.97 which would top the table.
What is AMD going to fill the £120 (7770) to £185 (7850) gap with?
7790? 7830? 7850 1GB? Even with a price cut once nvidia show their hand, I'm sure there's room for another card in that gap!
the 7850 and the 7870?
I would see the 7850 dropping to £150 if / when Nvidia release a card(kepler) that competes. The rest of the cards will be cut by a similar level so it will all shift :).
But we shall see :D
This has put me in a situation, my 5850 is a monster as far as overclocks go (was lucky there).
Not sure to go for 6950/7850/7870, want a bit more power as I am jumping into 3d gaming, but I am not going active shutter and instead passive so only need 1920x540 x 2 as 60fps ideally.
Maybe this is the VCE driver in 12.2 (highlighted)? I've only just noticed it so I'll have to check, but considering it's not already installed, it could be...
http://i.imgur.com/bpsb5.png
Nope, that's been there since the 4000 series ;)
I don't remember seeing it on the normal install package before, and I usually leave everything besides demos checked so it's strange it's not already installed.
It's been called different things in different drivers and was an optional download separate from CCC before. Started off as AVIVO. This version is the Windows 7 variant.
The 7850's seem to be great bang for buck at around £170, overclocked they easily beat HD 6970 etc which is a £250+ card...
AMD is always cheaper but as same as intel just intel is more known