Looking at the Haswell CPU from an enthusiast PC user point of view the chips offer less than the older generations and bundles another crap GPU that I don't want. Compared to a good stepping SB i5 overclocked Haswell i7 is garbage and on one wants to pay for faster integrated graphics and a new motherboard to save a few £££ on electricity.
If your looking to build a low power PC from scratch with a few hundred watt PSU and no graphics card then Haswell looks better, but just buy a laptop and be done, but if you wanted to overclock and upgrade that machine later on (say 2 years from now and your CPU limited) with a new PSU and high end GPU you would be better off if you had a 5.0Ghz SB i5 from two generations earlier.
The i7 4770P would have been slightly interesting if it could have run overclocked turbo as you might have had a chance at pushing the system bus without the integrated GPU. Why Intel don't a make a 4770K without a GPU? they seems to have every other possible combination...
IMO this CPU architecture offers nothing for enthusiasts and the new chipsets are just more of the same. I don't want any Intel integrated graphics, I don't care about power use or TDP I just want a fast desktop CPU for a fair price.
To regard the H'well as "garbage" is pretty damn unreasonable in my book - even I knew that this was going to be an incremental release, so to expect something ground-breaking; earth-shattering; etc was a bit unfair. On the other hand AMD seem to be doing pretty well with their APU's A6/A8/A10 and you know how touchy Chipzilla is about being seen to be #2 in any processor market. That said, I do kind of agree that the further up the scale you go, the less the focus on "ooh, look at de shiny, shiny new GPU" makes sense. I mean, how many folks buying desktop i7's aren't going to partner those with something tasty from AMD or NVidia? Conversely I suspect many i3-based desktops will into go to "mum and dad" settings where as long as the owner can watch the odd DVD when desired, then they'll be happy with the integrated graphics.
You've also managed to overlook the part about the various sleep steps now available. As was pointed out to me, if your PC can reduce to a hibernate/deep-sleep power draw of fractions of a Watt then it becomes acceptable to hibernate/deep-sleep it rather than power down - especially in an office environment. This, in turn, allows you to move to an "instant on" way of working - which is one of the things that I thought Windows8 was focussed on.
There's more to life than overclocking the nuts off of everything - heck undervolting seems to be gaining popularity, although I'm at a loss to understand why. And for folks with a pre-SB rig, or even one from AMD (guilty as charged there!) the various tweaks Haswell has might be appealing.
Personally speaking, I'm looking at Haswell as a processor that'll give me an excellent "bang for the watt" rating. I'm cheap/canny enough to want a minimal power draw when I'm using my tower PC for light weight tasks, while still wanting that processing power on tap for when I'm gaming (the main use of that PC) or doing video/audio work. There's also the small matter that a lower TDP means less heat that needs to be drawn away, which in turn means that slower (and therefore quieter) fans can be used. And I'm sure that the idea of a quieter PC would appeal to a lot of folks!
Not sure that a GPU-less chip, (as opposed to one that just had it disabled), would be a goer - surely tooling costs etc would make it expensive? I can see what you're getting at, but if it's an expensive chip then surely it might be sucking some of the market away from the Extreme's?
Three words for you then ... Sandy Bridge E (okay that's actually two words and a letter, but you get the idea). Last time I looked you could get a i7-3820 for less than £200 ex VAT and it's got a 130W TDP so ideal for someone who also wants a space heater.
Joking aside, I thought the Skt 2011 stuff was the "enthusiasts" gear with the 1056/1055/1050 socket parts designed for normal/boring folks.
Yes, I too had heard/read the pre-launch stories about epic OC's being possible with Haswell, out of the box, on air. But in the end that's all they were ... stories. Chalk that one up to another example of tech enthusiasm gone wild, like the stories that that the S3/S4 phones would be made of ceramic, have curved/flexible screens/etc.
With the 3570k on offer for just £150 at the moment I see no reason to go with haswell at the moment
Well that Amazon deal on the 3570k has expired, It's £172 now which is no longer enough to tempt me away from Haswell (£180).
This is not good news:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/382267/i...-than-expected
It looks like pre-production samples were better for overclocking than production chips sent to PC companies.
Aria seem to be happily flogging 4.8ghz Haswells so it seems that at least some retail chips do OK.
or they are happy to stick more volts than healthy through them.....
The bit that got me was
So 15 celsius hotter than pre-prod at stock speeds - that sounds like someone at Intel either was very, very careful with the fabrication of the earlier samples, or quality control for the production runs has gone right out of the window."even at stock speeds, [retail chips] are running hotter than Ivy Bridge or Haswell samples". The firm said that retail chips are "around 15°C" hotter than pre-production samples.
Not being any kind of processor expert - and I doff my cap to those around me who are - is it possible that the companies commenting to PC Pro have managed to get a bad batch? After all surely the Haswell fab lines must have just started up, in which case, some "teething problems" are to be expected?
Kind of makes me glad that I decided to "wait and see" - since if it is an early production problem then by the time I'm looking to buy (Nov/Dec) they should have it sorted out.
Those are two separate sentences, I simply don't believe that they could be 15°C hotter at stock.even at stock speeds, [retail chips] are running hotter than Ivy Bridge or Haswell samples". The firm said that retail chips are "around 15°C" hotter than pre-production samples.
I am on the lookout for a 3570k incase I dont follow the Haswell route. But seriously, people want £150 for a second hand i3570k on ebay. Doesnt make sense!
Well I don't think a max of 1.3v is going to do much harm in the lifetime of the CPU.
They also have 4.6 @ max 1.25v and 4.4 @ max 1.2v.
It's the price premium that bothers me, I'm rather take the gamble myself.
oooh just read that on stock cooling the 4770k is thermal throttling in a closed machine on turbo oO
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