Reporting posts... feedback

[jim]

Ages ago, I reported a post and noted in the thread that I had reported the post so that a moderator could make a decision on a contentious issue. Peterb then posted and mentioned that no report had actually been sent. Presumably at one end or the other there had been a technical mishap.

Recently, I feel like I've reported a whole host of posters/threads and several days later absolutely nothing has come of it - the post (complete with advertising/insults/copy-pasted junk) is still there, the poster doesn't have "banned" under their username, and no moderator comment has been made in the thread.

That only leaves three scenarios as far as I can see:

1) The moderation team has reviewed the post and deemed it to be acceptable (or perhaps just worthy of future monitoring)
2) The moderation team has dealt with the user in an invisible manner
3) The report never made it to destination

Obviously, from my perspective that's fairly frustrating, not knowing which it is.

If for some reason reports aren't making it through, then there's no point in me submitting them. If on the other hand all of my reports are unnecessary, because the material I'm reporting is actually fine and I'm being overly critical, then I clearly need to reassess what I consider to be breaking the rules.

I should probably make it clear - I know you're all going above and beyond as things stand, and I certainly don't expect a detailed analysis PMd to me explaining how my report was used, and what the outcome was. In fact, if visible action is taken, then as much as I appreciated the PMs I occasionally got from Peterb and a couple of other moderators in the past, I would never expect any kind of personal confirmation.

I'm purely asking about situations where nothing seems to have happened. If I knew that my report had indeed been read, but what I perceived as an "insult" was nothing more than "forceful language", then it would be a lot better. And I presumably wouldn't waste so much of your time in the future?

Simply put, right now, I feel like all the reports I'm sending are pointless - and really don't know whether that's because I'm reporting perfectly good posts or because they just never reach you.

[peterb]

I personally try to acknowledge "report" posts that I act on - although I must ad that the last week or so there have been a few that I have missed - usually if I am out and about and I am using a smartphone to do the action, as sending PMs from my |BB (since they upgraded the OS to a memory hog ) is a bit fiddly.

I do this because when I was a standard member, like you, I found it frustrating not getting any feedback, and since becoming part of the team, I know how important it is that members like yourself report posts and help us keep HEXUS the way we think you want it to be.

So, from my own perspective, a big thank you to all members who do report suspect posts, and a personal apology if I have been a little remiss in acknowledging the reports (where I act on them) in the last few weeks.

BUT - please be assured that we do appreciate them!

[DR]

Ages ago, I reported a post and noted in the thread that I had reported the post so that a moderator could make a decision on a contentious issue. Peterb then posted and mentioned that no report had actually been sent. Presumably at one end or the other there had been a technical mishap.

Recently, I feel like I've reported a whole host of posters/threads and several days later absolutely nothing has come of it - the post (complete with advertising/insults/copy-pasted junk) is still there, the poster doesn't have "banned" under their username, and no moderator comment has been made in the thread.

That only leaves three scenarios as far as I can see:

1) The moderation team has reviewed the post and deemed it to be acceptable (or perhaps just worthy of future monitoring)
2) The moderation team has dealt with the user in an invisible manner
3) The report never made it to destination

Obviously, from my perspective that's fairly frustrating, not knowing which it is.

If for some reason reports aren't making it through, then there's no point in me submitting them. If on the other hand all of my reports are unnecessary, because the material I'm reporting is actually fine and I'm being overly critical, then I clearly need to reassess what I consider to be breaking the rules.

I should probably make it clear - I know you're all going above and beyond as things stand, and I certainly don't expect a detailed analysis PMd to me explaining how my report was used, and what the outcome was. In fact, if visible action is taken, then as much as I appreciated the PMs I occasionally got from Peterb and a couple of other moderators in the past, I would never expect any kind of personal confirmation.

I'm purely asking about situations where nothing seems to have happened. If I knew that my report had indeed been read, but what I perceived as an "insult" was nothing more than "forceful language", then it would be a lot better. And I presumably wouldn't waste so much of your time in the future?

Simply put, right now, I feel like all the reports I'm sending are pointless - and really don't know whether that's because I'm reporting perfectly good posts or because they just never reach you.

Firstly, thank you for the post.

As I am sure you can imagine things are hectic around here. The community has it's own dedicated team of Admin's and Moderators - all of which work throughout the day to keep the forum running along.

We will look at a feedback method - without doubt if we can find a viable solution to do it we will implement it.

Without the 'Reported Posts' from members we wouldn't be able to fix things so quickly.

So please do keep it up and we will see what we can do.

[kalniel]

I have similar feelings, though completely understand that it's more likely to be moderator time limited and/or not serious enough in posts I've reported (which is to be expected as I use report to draw mod attention to something I'm not sure about, or that might become a problem later on as well as clear rule breaking posts).

What would be really cool, though probably major work if a module doesn't already do it, would be to have the report post icon (for the reportee) change to reflect the status of a report once a report has been made. So like a ticket system the report could be open, rejected or actioned (just as examples). Ticking an option when reading, then closing the report might take up less moderator time than going to the hassle of PMing users to let them know what's happened to their reports. It would also prevent us from accidentally reporting the same post twice (if that's possible).

[DR]

I have similar feelings, though completely understand that it's more likely to be moderator time limited and/or not serious enough in posts I've reported (which is to be expected as I use report to draw mod attention to something I'm not sure about, or that might become a problem later on as well as clear rule breaking posts).

What would be really cool, though probably major work if a module doesn't already do it, would be to have the report post icon (for the reportee) change to reflect the status of a report once a report has been made. So like a ticket system the report could be open, rejected or actioned (just as examples). Ticking an option when reading, then closing the report might take up less moderator time than going to the hassle of PMing users to let them know what's happened to their reports. It would also prevent us from accidentally reporting the same post twice (if that's possible).

It's a time issue 99.9% of the time, we are so busy with what comes in.

Have a look on vBulletin.org and see what there is....

[MSIC]

I'd echo SnootyJim - I certainly dont expect personal feedback every time, and to be fair I can see that it's extra work generated.

Since my son was born (he's nearly 3 now) i've been getting up between 5 and 6am (or earlier some days .. eughhhh) so often I see those Russian / Nigerian / Chinese / Wherever early morning posts and quite enjoy reporting them ... a bit like whack-a-mole, they always keep popping up!
Am not really sure what the answer is, short of a more fundamental change eg along a similar vein to the 'thanks' system, but i'm sure that involves more work than might be reasonable.

Anyway, keep up the good work Mods, i'll keep my end up! (Sounds like a line from a Carry On film...)

[Output]

We will look at a feedback method - without doubt if we can find a viable solution to do it we will implement it.

One method I have seen utilised elsewhere (that also uses vBulletin) is one that makes a thread in a "Reported Posts" board when they use the "report post" function, with only threads that the member themselves have made by reporting listed for them to be able to view in there.

For the Administrators and Moderators I assume that all reports are viewable for them, but I believe that if a member reports something that another member has already reported, the method adds it as a reply to the earlier report - and as such in that case, the subsequent reporter isn't able to view the report thread.

The method also allows a member to close the report themselves (perhaps in case they reported the wrong post), and the ability to edit the thread that the report has made (perhaps to add extra information that they may have forgotten in the original report).

Though I have no idea how they implemented the aforementioned method, I thought I would point it out as a possible solution to this.

EDIT: Similar to the report post icon suggestion above by kalniel, a quick search of vBulletin.org has the option of removing the report icon for already reported posts.

[jim]

I personally try to acknowledge "report" posts that I act on

Out of interest Peter, going back to what my original post, I presume the reverse is also true - that you do not acknowledge reports that you do not act on.

If by "act on" you mean reports that you personally deal with, then that makes perfect sense - obviously you're not going to explain to someone why Zak did something!

If by "act on" you mean reports that result in you taking specific action against the poster involved, then why would you not want to acknowledge reports that resulted in no action being taken?

In my mind understanding why erroneous reports were ignored is far more important than being thanked for the correct reports.

[jim]

Firstly, thank you for the post.

As I am sure you can imagine things are hectic around here. The community has it's own dedicated team of Admin's and Moderators - all of which work throughout the day to keep the forum running along.

We will look at a feedback method - without doubt if we can find a viable solution to do it we will implement it.

Without the 'Reported Posts' from members we wouldn't be able to fix things so quickly.

So please do keep it up and we will see what we can do.

Oh, I'm well aware, don't get me wrong. I know that reports are generally a very important tool for the moderation team, and that they probably save a lot of valuable time scanning the forums.

I'm just concerned that reporting posts on a personal level is either ineffective because they aren't getting through, or pointless because I'm misusing them - and without any feedback it's hard to know whether either of those are true.

[DR]

Oh, I'm well aware, don't get me wrong. I know that reports are generally a very important tool for the moderation team, and that they probably save a lot of valuable time scanning the forums.

I'm just concerned that reporting posts on a personal level is either ineffective because they aren't getting through, or pointless because I'm misusing them - and without any feedback it's hard to know whether either of those are true.

We are looking in to using this: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137031

[peterb]

Out of interest Peter, going back to what my original post, I presume the reverse is also true - that you do not acknowledge reports that you do not act on.

If by "act on" you mean reports that you personally deal with, then that makes perfect sense - obviously you're not going to explain to someone why Zak did something!

If by "act on" you mean reports that result in you taking specific action against the poster involved, then why would you not want to acknowledge reports that resulted in no action being taken?

In my mind understanding why erroneous reports were ignored is far more important than being thanked for the correct reports.

Thats a good point - and yes, I acknowledge posts where I take a positive action. Sometimes where I can see why a post has been reported, but I decide to leave it (or send the poster a PM) I do give feedback. And sometimes an issue may need to be raised with other members of the team where the action to be taken is less clear cut, and that decision sometimes takes a while. Again, if I raise it with the team, I try and give some acknowledement, but sometimes I fail.

The other aspect is that if a team member does act on something (a ban, or thread deletion) it isn't immediately obvious to the rest of the team who has done the action, or if someone else has looked at it and decided NFA, unless it is borderline and they have raised it with the rest of the team!

So perhaps something we can look at.

[jim]

We are looking in to using this: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137031

Yeah, that does sound good, and would definitely clear up all of the issues I mentioned. I know it's been mentioned before how much of a pain add-ons can be, so I'll leave it there

[Mutley]

I wonder if it would be valuable to periodically post some statistics on admin activity, such as removing spam, threads closed, members banned or whatever. I suspect a lot goes on.

As someone involved in running a forum site for a major IT company, the tiny amount of spam threads that I see here is pretty amazing.

[DR]

The admin and mods are the backbone of the HEXUS community. They work so hard to get things good for you all.

[Steve]

Only skimmed this so forgive me if this has been said already.

Report post usually goes to designated moderators of that forum. If no such person exists, it goes to admins. Chances are in either the former or the latter place, the right people have been too busy or distracted to something about it.

In an ideal world the report post button would create a list of threads to be dealt with that is viewable by the appropriate people, a bit like a ticketing system really.

edit: Which is exactly what Dave linked to I think. Hopefully there's a vb4 compatible version.

[Saracen]

I've no idea why a given report wasn't actioned, but an insight might come from how I handle reports.

I get them via email, when I check my email, which is not, by any means, every day. So, they might be a day or two old when I get them. Of course, if I've been away for a bit, they might be a week or more old. So I certainly don't acknowledge them all.

Then I go through them, and check what they relate to. Most, to be fair, have already been actioned. That might mean another mod got to it first, or it may be that I did, simply through regular sweeps round the forums. Rarely does a day go past, for instance, where I don't personally delete a handful of spammers, and sometimes it's a dozen or two .... per day. Many of these, I might add, members will never see, though I'm going going to go into why, because, hey, spammers might be reading this too.

Every time I find a suspected spammer, for instance, I do a variety of checks, then have to delete posts, lock the account and perhaps, depending on a variety of factors, block either email addresses or IPs.

And it all takes time.

So I must admit, I'm lazy, and rarely respond directly to reports, simply because it'd add so much time to an already time consuming task.

I;d guess about 90% of reports I see have already been dealt with. What I don't have a feel for is how many of those are accounts that I've already dealt with en-masse in a sweep, and how many someone else dealt with,. And that's just spammers, which are the quick and easy part of reports. Those that involve more than working out if it's a spammer and if it is, dumping, it, take even more time.

I do from time to time put a post in GD thanking people for their help, and reported ARE valuable. I catch a lot of problems directly, as do other mods, but nonetheless, reports often point me to things I'd missed, or point me to things I'd have caught eventually, but do it more quickly.

There are, I'll admit,. also times when I see something that's going to take time to deal with and, especially at about 3AM, I think "tomorrow, I'll sort that tomorrow". And possibly, then forget. Then there's things to be dealt with as a result of PMs. I might be able to sort them instantly, but it also might require either passing it on to someone else, or a more general mod discussion, all of which takes time, and sometimes, results in it just drifting and being forgotten.

If something got past us and was left, then it's very poor on our part and I can only apologise to you, snooty, and to everyone else feeling the same. My only excuse is ..... time constraints.

Feedback helps us enormously, and we probably don't thanks often enough. But for me, I'm afraid it's not likely to be something that happens every time I action a report because it'll just add too much time, especially when a given email check might result in 20, 30 or more reports, as it sometimes does. It's not unusual for me to spend an hour or two, many evenings a week, before bed, clearing out spammers etc and I just can't add much more time to that. Sorry, Jim.