Anyone have marine fish at home and can advise ?

[jamieuk23]

Hi I really want to get a fish tank for my home and willing to research the best I can to keep healthy fish and coral rocks.

I person locally has offered me a Red sea Max 250 with lots of rock and fish and extras for £600 which from looking at the new prices etc is a amazing deal.

My worry is though is how much time and work will be involved in maintaining this tank to keep healthy fish and at this moment I really havent got a clue what needs to be done, can anyone advise ?

Also when I get this tank home, can you let me know the order in which I set it up ie >>>>

1. put gravel and coral in ?

2. Add water and fish ?

Jobs a gooden ?

[HSK]

I can't give you specific advice on marine setups, but I'm sure you may have to also "cycle" the tank prior to putting your fishys in - in order to build up beneficial bacteria - which will break down the ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate. Nitrate isn't so harmful, which can reduced with water changes - but this is what I know in regards to fresh water setups!!

It requires a trigger to get the ammonia in the water (decaying fish food etc, or ammonia bought from the fish pet shop) Some people get it started with fish which are particularly hardly, but this can be seen as cruel.

[jamieuk23]

Could you explain a litle more about you mean when you say "cycle" the tank ?

[danroyle]

Could you explain a litle more about you mean when you say "cycle" the tank ?

when you setup your tank you should really let in cycle empty for anything up to a month putting a little food in to decay and monitor ammonia and nitratre/nitrite levels.

some fish are very sensitive to higher levels of nitrate and nitrite and will die very quckly if you dont get the balance right.

My wife has a tropical tank which is very similarly setup and she has to do about 1/3rd water change once a week/fortnight and clean the gravel regularly with a gravel cleaner and this keeps on top of any issues.

It can be quite time consuming getting the perfect balance in your tank

[HSK]

It's basically introducing a bed of beneficial bacteria in the tanks biological filter. When the water starts to flow through an internal or external filter (or if the water is pulled downwards through the gravel using an air-pump) you get a build up of brown crap (the bacteria). But this require a trigger I guess - fish or something decaying.

One fish by-product is ammonia, and it will also come of any un-eaten food. It's toxic to the fish though! Which can cause stress...The bacteria will break down the ammonia in to nitrite (also toxic), and then in to nitrate - which isn't so toxic, you can then control those levels with regular water changes. But the idea is not to lose that bed of bacteria. It can take a while to build up in to decent levels to stabilise your tank water...So you shouldn't wash the filter sponges with tap water (I use the same water from water change bucket). Some people initially use fish that are very hardy against bad water conditions, which can tolerate the ammonia and nitrite levels until the bacteria have settled enough to control it...some do a "fish-less cycle", as they see this as less cruel.

*Edit, I forgot to mention, you will prob need to use a water conditioner in any new water introduced, to remove chlorine / chloramine from it.

Again, this is for fresh water setup's, it might be a totally different case for salt water!!!

All my life consists of is cleaning fish tanks don't get one.

[Jay]

Thats a stunner of a tank!

I wish I could add some information for you but I have 2 gold fish in a bowl so this is a bit out of my scope!

If you do get it post lots of pics.

oh my goldfish are about 8 years old now so I must be doing somthing right!

[Barakka]

I've moved many tanks - although like others here my knowledge is based on Tropical not marine fish...

If you're buying the tank as established with fish etc then if you can move it all in around an hour you'll be fine and no need for cycling etc.

You need to turn off the filters, drain the tank, keeping at least 20% of the water in containers* - put the fish in the containers/water -then drain to the substrate (sand) level. Leave the substrate and the water covering it in place if you can still lift the tank - the less disturbance the better. Where possible don't drain any filters - and put them in a bucket of tank water if they're not sealed. The key is any bacteria - which is in the substrate and in the filter media (foams, ceramic etc) - needs to be kept submerged in tank water in order to stay alive, and if the water doesn't start circulating after about an hour it starts to die and you're back to square 1 with cycling for a month etc.

You've now got around 1 hour to get the tank moved, installed, filled, and the filter running - the fish a little longer, but the filter/water is key as you don't want the bacteria to die. This sounds way too hard, and i'm sure with a marine tank it's harder than tropical, but if you do some preparation to know where it's going, dismantling ancillaries (lights etc) first and assembling last then it's achievable - providing you live close enough

BUT do not do it based just on what i've said above, I have never had Marine - you need to go to a fish shop that specialises in Marine - NOT A CHAIN STORE - find a small independent retailer (usually in a coverted house) and ask their advice - a good store will have done it many times before. The alternative is to get someone like them to move it for you if that's something they offer.

And you need to do your research on exactly what is required in maintaining the tank - tropical require some work - marine i'm sure require much more commitment. Essentially any fish tank is just a glorified chemistry set and if you learn and understand the chemistry of what's happening it will make it a lot easier to maintain.

*For water containers find a (beer) home brewing shop and get a couple of large brewing kegs - they're plastic (food grade- so not chemically treated), have a carry handle, and an air tight (water tight) clip on lid with a small air hole - ideal for moving water/fish around - and great for water changes in the future. They hold about 50 litres to the brim, but you'll put about 20 litres in.

[neonplanet40]

I currently keep a marine aquarium and would say that you really need to read up before you erven think of getting one. It may look like a cracker deal but when you dont know what you are doing it becomes £600 of dead livestock.

Ideally I tell people to try tropical first and if they cant do that to read, read and read some more. It is a very time consuming hobby and requires regular DAILY maintenance. For example you need to have various test kits for magnesium, alkalinity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, calcium and PH and make sure that they are ALL in the ideal parimeters, because having 1 out means you'll have many out of whack.

The fact that you are buying a system that is already setup means even more problems. For example, it is not just as simple as taking it out, then dumping it all back in. Moving the sand will cause a huge release of nutrients into the water column which I would argue is enough to wipe out a tanks livestock. Moving a tank requires much preperation, patience and time. You will need to store the livestock in another tank until the main system stablises again before you add them back in.

Feel free to ask me more questions but If I was advising I would say to get a new used tank and startup from scratch.

[neonplanet40]

Oh and people here saying you need to add chemicals to treat the water - it is different with salt water setups.

For salt water you need to use reverse osmosis water preferably with 0TDS as normal tap water would ruin the tank as there is too much nutrients in it.

It is also worth remembering that inverts such as shrimp snails etc cannot tolerate huge swings in temperature, Having them out of the tank for a few hours with no heat packs WILL kill then. Also adding tyhem to the tank without acclimitising them first will also kill them. Same goes for fish although they are a little more hardly.

Having the heaters off etc for more than an our can cause the live bateria in the rock and sand to die which will cause a mini cycle and as I said would damage or kill your livestock, this is why another tank is needed to hold the livestock. As well as the test kits to check when it is safe to add them back in.****make sure they are drip acclimitised and not just threw in****

Having had a tropical tank first I have to warn you now they they are worlds apart and marine tanks are MUCH more fickle and complicated. But if you do prepare, take the time and heed advice, it is one of the best hobbies

ESPECIALLY when you start adding corals

Im currently selling up my whole tanka s I am moving to Scotland for a year, but when I get back ill be starting a new one

[Bunjiweb]

Ignore most of the stuff that's been said in this thread other than what neonplanet40 has said. Marine tanks are completely different to tropical freshwater tanks in many respects.

I currently keep 3 marine tanks and have kept marine fish for many years.

If you are moving the pictured tank and hoping to keep the fish and contents intact then do the following exactly:

Buy a bunch of large storage containers with sealed / lockable tops. Transfer fish out first, each in to individual bags, or otherwise 2 - 3 fish per 5 litre bucket. Also remember to transfer out any other "critters" such as hermit crabs, snails and any other invertebrates also. Try and make sure you don't expose any of the fish or invertebrates to air if you can help it.

All rocks should be kept submerged throughout if you can, which is where large containers with sealed rocks come in handy. Syphon water in to the containers so they are approx half-full then move all the live rock in to the containers.

Then syphon out and keep as much of the rest of the water left in the tank as possible, ensuring that you also remove all the filter media from the rear sections of the tank and keeping these wet also.

When you get to the other end, add approx 20-30% fresh salted water (pre-mix from your local aquarium specialist may be easier). Then add fresh coral sand to the tank. After this add all the rock back to the tank. Leave any corals along the tank at the front to let them settle in before you position them properly.

Top the tank up with the rest of the water you've kept and any remaining rocks and add filter media back to the tank. Then leave the fish to float in their bags in the tank for approx half hr / 40 mins for temperature to acclimatise, then slowly mix the water in the bag with that of the tank and release gently.

If you have used a bucket rather than a bag, then keep adding jugs of water from the tank to the bucket until the bucket is full. De-canter half the water back out to the tank and repeat the process a couple of times - slowly and carefully.

Once you have done all this, ensure all the pumps are working correctly and then leave the tank until the next day before you get the lights back on in the tank.

Don't feed the fish for the first 3 days to allow the tank to settle properly.


Key things to remember with marine tanks:

- The rock is "live" and is your bacterial colony. Without healthy rock and a healthy bacterial colony your tank won't survive.
- Feed small ammounts of a mix of frozen and dried marine specialist food twice a day.
- Use a refractometer (NOT hydrometer) to keep an eye on the salt level of the tank and top up with fresh-water as necessary. Use "RO" water, which is water that has been treated with a reverse osmosis filter. DO NOT use tap-water with a marine tank. Again, your local aquatic specialist shop should be able to provide you with containers of RO water if you don't want to invest in your own unit.
- Change 10% of the water weekly remembering to add required trace elements back to the water such as calcium additives.
- Don't be tempted to buy new stock for the tank until it has been settled for a couple of months and you know exactly what you are doing.

- Buy a test kit. Learn how to use it. Test frequently.


If you need any further help feel free to PM me, just don't take the decision of keeping a marine tank lightly and check with those who know before making impulse purchases of "pretty" fish or corals.

Useful Links:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/
http://www.reefcentral.com/

Ben

[Galant]

Yeah, if I may offer a suggestion - if this is your first aquarium then decline the marine and go for freshwater tropical. I know the pull of a marine tank with the coral and inverts and really brightly coloured fish is strong but unless you're incredibly devoted and attentive and super studious and then have a good amount of luck I expect you'll see a loss of life. There's so much more to keeping an aquarium than at first glance. Think of it not as place to watch fish with a few daily duties, but rather the maintenance of an aquatic environment.

Tropical will ease you into it - though it still has it's challenges - and if you take a look around you'll find there are some incredibly beautiful and interesting set-ups to be done. After my first small community tank I got larger and large and really enjoyed keeping brackish - bumblebee gobies, monos, archer fish (my all time favourite fish to keep). I kept a puffer tank too - really smart fish - definitely cool pets. I always prefered the 'interesting' fish of the straight pretty ones. Check out knife fish, african butterfly fish, elephant nose fish. There is massive variety out there, and the interest grows when you go from community tank to setting up a tank for a specific region. There are inverts to be had - but I'd say those are best left until you hit intermediate or advanced level - you can easily lose them, or else, lose fish to them!

For £600 you could produce an astounding and large tropical aquarium (the larger the better and the easier) - with excellent variety, lighting, filtration. I absolutely promise that it would be a really rewarding experience. You could have a real show piece, and you would be able to learn through it, and avoid the extra pitfalls of marine, involving extra cost, and have a lower chance or causing the beautiful animals to suffer and die while you learn.

Tropical Fish - http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/a...lies.cfm?c=830

Best of luck to you whatever you choose!

[razer121]

May i also point out that marine is not only hard to keep if you dont know what you are doing but also exspensive....exspecially if your new and kill of your beautiful new exspensive marine fishys! I much prefer the tropical setups, easier to maintain and have some nice fish to keep, currently i have t-bars, really colourfull 5" fish! plus i use live plants which means i dont need to change the water as often, due the plants helping maintain the tanks bacteria levels (and yes a test kit is a must, even if you go with tropical!) good luck!

[Bunjiweb]

May i also point out that marine is not only hard to keep if you dont know what you are doing but also exspensive....exspecially if your new and kill of your beautiful new exspensive marine fishys! I much prefer the tropical setups, easier to maintain and have some nice fish to keep, currently i have t-bars, really colourfull 5" fish! plus i use live plants which means i dont need to change the water as often, due the plants helping maintain the tanks bacteria levels (and yes a test kit is a must, even if you go with tropical!) good luck!

Plants do virtually nothing to maintain the bacteria level apart from providing another surface to grow on, like any other tank decoration. Plants do however absorb nitrates if properly maintained and so can lead to a more balanced water chemistry. Plants really only thrive in tropical tanks with the use of CO2 systems which can be quite pricey.

Other than this I'd totally agree Marine is much more expensive and difficult to maintain successfully.

Ben

[dave87]

Plants really only thrive in tropical tanks with the use of CO2 systems which can be quite pricey.

Ben

By all means no expert on this, but in the case of my Grandfather's Tropical fish setup, the plants seemed to grow quite readily. Infact it was only when the fish developed a knack for dismembering the bits of the plants that he had to stop trimming them (just remove the debris from the tank).

Unless I'm greatly mistaken he has no fancy CO2 system in place, just a normal air pump.

[Bunjiweb]

Well of course it depends on what plants are in the tank, but there is a difference between having a few plants, and having a fully successful planted aquarium such as this:



or this:

[razer121]

Plants do virtually nothing to maintain the bacteria level apart from providing another surface to grow on, like any other tank decoration. Plants do however absorb nitrates if properly maintained and so can lead to a more balanced water chemistry. Plants really only thrive in tropical tanks with the use of CO2 systems which can be quite pricey.

Other than this I'd totally agree Marine is much more expensive and difficult to maintain successfully.

Ben

That is what i ment XD i was out last night man give me a break lol, but yes since adding my plants ive never really had problems with any of my tanks