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Thread: Could I be stuffed?

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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Could I be stuffed?

    Long story short, I am coming to the end of my tenancy, and I gave my landlord the required 2 months notice.... only I managed to put the wrong month on it making it seem like, on paper, I have given him one month. I put June on instead of may! I typed it up the day our offer was accepted on the perfect home for us - my mind was elsewhere!

    In my e-mails I have proof of me sending the original Estate Agents/Letting agents the 2 month notice, stating the claus in the tenancy agreement my desire to do so, and the leaving date. I then printed out the letter and gave it to my landlord, that day. He stayed quiet until now when - a week before we move out - before his 'agent' knocks on our door and in forms us we have only given 1 months notice. Now the 'agent' is taking over his house & our garden annex to manage them in future and seemed very 'neutral' about whether this issue is going to cause problems. Only stating she would talk to him!

    Will my e-mail to the estate agents/letting agents stating my desires, and then saying I will hand him the letter that day be enough mitigation to prevent me being stung for an additional month? I have the letter saved on my work computer that will be date & time stamped showing it was written in May. Should I take a video of me opening it, first showing the date, before revealing it was an honest, clerical, mistake?

    Oh bollocks

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Tbh first off your post is not very clear as to the date you sent the notice, the commencement of notice and the leaving date.

    That said, it seems like you're saying (sorry if I've got it wrong) day 1 you sent an email saying you were giving notice to vacate 3 months later, rather than 2 months as required. If my understanding is correct, you can give as much forward notice as you like but not less than the required, either expressed as leaving date or commencement of notice date.

    So he has every right to require the additional month's payment. However, if it will be relatively easy for him to rent out again quickly it would be unreasonable of him to expect the full amount. So ask nicely or try to come to an agreement such as 50/50 or only the period during that month that it is unoccupied.
    Last edited by Siesta; 12-06-2013 at 10:22 PM.

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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Sorry it wasn't clear...

    April 23rd we email tbe letting agents stating the 2 months notice and our desire to leave on the 23rd june, and that I will be giving the landlord notice that day as well. He has no email so I type out a quick letter and give it to him that evening. He accepts and is fine with it.

    1 month-ish later I forget to cancel standing order and pay him for a full month this month, despite (as per notice) our intentions to only be there for 3 weeks of this 4 week paid period. After 2 weeks of chasing him he refunds me this overpayment. We discuss checking out inspection etc, and he agrees to book one in.

    Week later an agent knocks on our door and informs us she is now handling out tenancy and will be handling the renting out of his property, in which we are in the garden of, and our annex. She also informs me of the incorrect date on the notice period - I dated it may 23rd instead of April23rd... So it looks like we have only given one months notice. She seems 'neutral' of this and will look into it.

    I show her the email I sent to lettings agency who found the flat and handle the deposits etc (protected) showing the two months notice and explain it was a clerical error and she agrees to talk to him about it.

    I'm worried I'm out of pocket a grand, if they decide to play hardball. The flat will be hard to rent out due to it falling to prices, due to landlord being old and disabled, we have always "put up with" everything instead of kicking up a fuss.

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Do you have any documentation proving the refund of overpayment? If you do you could argue it as acknowledgement and acceptance of the clerical error.

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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Just the brown envelope he delivered it in.

    Problems with having a landlord who doesn't have an e-mail account/internet. Old & disabled meant I didn't rock the boat when i should have, then he pulls the 'selective' memory card over when the notice was given to him. Can't believe I was so stupid when typing out the letter. So excited over the new house...

    What I do have is;

    Proof;
    The notice document stating 'last modified' on 23/4/13
    E-mail to estate agents that day saying I was giving notice, and would hand him it later that day


    Deniable;
    I gave him the flipping notice on the 23/4/13
    He refunded me the over payment
    Discussed checking out inspection for over 2 weeks now


    My notice stated;


    23rd May 2013
    Dear David,

    As per the below I wish to serve notice to vacate your Garden Annex on June 23th 2013. I have discussed, and e-mailed, Ria at Martin & Co informing them of this as well.

    8.11.3: Special Clause: The tenant and the landlord have the option to terminate the agreement at any time by giving two months written notice.

    Kindest Regards,
    Andrew

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Unfortunately last date/time modified can be rigged (or certainly used to be) so isn't proof.

    The email you sent to Ria at Martin & Co. Who are Martin & Co (are they the old managing agents?) and when did you email her? What dates did that email include? Depending on your answers, were you required, according to the agreement, to give them notice too?

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    Formerly known as Andehh Andeh13's Avatar
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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Martin & Co, advertised the flat, set up the contracts, inspection and deposits and then I *think* the landlord does the managing part. The contract does stipulate it is me & David, the landlord, on it. The deposit protection scheme lists Martin & Co them as the landlord/agent.

    The e-mail I sent them though, and this was sent on April 23rd;


    Hi Ria,
    >
    > As discussed on the phone, I wish to give 2 months notice from today to
    > vacate; Garden Annex, Homely Weir Place, Staines, TW18 3NB. I have
    > attached the relevant Claus below for reference. I will print off a
    > letter and delivery it to David later on today.
    >
    > Claus 8.11.6 ''1.1.1. Special Clause: The tenant and the landlord
    > have the option to terminate the agreement at any time by giving two
    > months written notice.
    >
    > Many thanks,
    > Andrew



    As an option, we have several things wrong with the flat we have just been living with not to kick up a fuss, such as;

    1) Hideously damp from condensation (pics show water running down the walls)
    2) Dangerous wiring, bedside plug does not work and when used sparked
    3) Lounge lamp is hanging off revealing bare wires - the ground copper wire is showing.
    4) Mould everywhere from the damp
    5) Toilet cistern is coming off the wall, with a large crack behind it showing.
    6) Infestation of woodlice from mold

    All of the above was reported in the checking in inspection, but we never chased it up due to not wanting to rock the boat. I wonder if we could request any/all of the above sorted, and stay elsewhere whilst it is - withholding the rent for those nights? - as a last ditch effort?

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    I'd be inclined to write a letter to the landlord, copying both the old and new agents, sent by recorded delivery.

    I would clearly document the process that you went through giving notice to both Martin & co and the landlord, the return of the overpayment etc. Attach copies of all relevant documentation. Inform them you are moving out as planned, that you will not make the additional month's rent payment and that you require the return of your deposit in full.

    I'd also include a passage regarding the state of the premises on occupation and that no remedial work was undertaken by the landlord during your occupation. Include photographs, full room view and detailed close ups.

    Add, in a polite but firm manner, that you will engage legal representation in the event that either your deposit is not returned or they pursue payment of rents beyond your vacate date.

    Worse that can happen, I think, is they push for the extra rent/retain your deposit.

    However, since that's what I'd do, and I'm not you, you should get an appointment with Citizens Advice Bureau (emphasise the urgency of your case) to obtain their opinion and remember to take all relevant supporting documentation.

    And in future try to conduct all such matters in writing (email or letter, and if the latter then use trackable post) and get or give receipts (a simple numbered duplicate book will suffice).

    Edit: BTW they can only retain your deposit on the basis of deposit retention as documented in the lease. So if it doesn't allow for unpaid rent they cannot retain it for that reason. Here's a starting point for info on it https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview
    Last edited by Siesta; 13-06-2013 at 12:25 PM.

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    I think Siesta has summed up the best course of action above, but just to add: my local branch Martin & Co is a terrible agent. Nearly ruined our lives last year, and it was only down to the understanding of our landlord that we were able to get out of an extremely difficult situation. Martin & Co just didn't give a toss, which in the end was their undoing but not after a couple of months of extreme stress.

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Many many thanks guys. Fingers crossed the estate agents are backing me up. As they received the notice, and have already arranged a checking out inspection having told the landlord such they say I am in the clear. Fingers crossed it proceeds like this but I am staying quiet now that the estate agents have set everything up for me to leave as planned!

    Ironically enough, it is martin & Co I have been dealing with. They were truly awful when I moved in, rude, condescending etc but so far the lady I am dealing with here seems to be pretty on the ball & helpful.

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    You have it all in the email which to me is proof!

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam1986 View Post
    You have it all in the email which to me is proof!
    That's only sufficient if the contract specifies the letting agents as the party to whom notice must be given. If it states the landlord rather than the letting agents it's not. If it specifies both it makes his case stronger, even more so if he wasn't advised of the change of agents and they changed before he gave notice.

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Just to update, no issues what so ever. Moved out, checking out inspection went without a hitch and all monies returned promptly!

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Great news... onwards and upwards

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    Re: Could I be stuffed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andehh View Post
    1 month-ish later I forget to cancel standing order and pay him for a full month this month, despite (as per notice) our intentions to only be there for 3 weeks of this 4 week paid period. After 2 weeks of chasing him he refunds me this overpayment.
    Sorry for jumping in on an old thread with a new view, but I missed this first time round. Just have to say that I can't believe you got away with this! If your rent is due monthly then regardless of when you actually move out you normally have to pay the full last month's rent (in fact most contracts specify that notice must be given from a rent payable date to enforce this), unless you've specfically agreed with the landlord in advance that you'll only be paying a part month. So well done on that one

    Also, good to hear you got moved out OK. Given the circumstances the landlord would've been on very dodgy ground anyway, but it's also worth noting that if you were out of the assured period of the tenancy you only have to give one month's notice anyway (that's standard housing law, and a contract cannot legally reduce your rights under law) so they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on (obviously if you were still in the assured period then frankly you've been even luckier with the landlord if they gave you an automatic break clause; many would've insisted that you kept paying rent on the old place until your assured period was up or they managed to relet it).

    Hope you settle into the new place OK!

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