Installing Solar_cells

Well, after a lot of thinking and research, I have taken the plunge and had solar cells installed on my roof.

I have ben thinking about it for a while, but I've had some misgivings about the solar industry, and the reduction in feed-in tariffs has made the proposition less attractive, but there have been advances in technology and so I have gone ahead.

My roof area is limited, and faces South-East/North-West, but as a large part of the overall cost is installation, it made sense to install as much as I could, so I had 10 panels on the south-east facing side and 6 on the north-west side - each panel is 250W and so 16 gives me the maximum domestic installation size of 4KW. (Top of the picture is North west - taken in the late afternoon/evening)

https://forums.hexus.net/members/pet...613-panels.jpg

One of the effects of this is that it will probably never generate maximum power, but I will generate a useful amount over a longer period of daylight hours. The technology is quite interesting - traditional 'string' arrays are connected in series and feed one inverter - this means that any shading of one panel affects the output of the whole array. This can be overcome partly by installing multiple arrays, each with its own inverter. however, my system uses one micro inverter per panel, so AC is generated at the panel, and the inverters are connected in parallel to the grid, via a generation meter. The peak power since installation was just over 3KW. One of the benefits of the system is that the inverters are all controlled from a central device so I can see statistics for each inverter as well as the whole array - current generation, and energy production - which are presented graphically.

Apart from overcoming the effects of shading, it allows each inverter to track the maximum power producing point (MPPT0) of each panel, as this varies with panel illumination, so it maximises the energy harvest. So far my array generates about 10KWh/day, although that will decrease as the nights grow longer.

So thats the technology - what about the economics?

I will be paid just over 14p/per KWh generated - regardless of what happens to it, whether it is exported or used ny me. Additionally, it assumed that half of what I generate will be exported, whether I export more or less, so I don't need an export meter. In practice it means I get paid 17p/KWh which works out as an estimated at about £620/pa.

The interesting part comes in the saving aspect on my electricity bill. As it happens, my import meter was an old one, and ran backwards when I was generating more than I was consuming. Technically that is illegal, so I told my supplier and the meter has been changed. But it did get me thinking.

Let me give an example. My general background load in the house is about 250W - mainly fridge, freezer and a server. So in 12 hours the cost would be 3KWh at 15p or 45p. So as soon as my array generates more than 250W, I am saving that per day. but it generates more than that, so I ned to use that where I can. One way is by heating my hot water with the immersion heater rather than by gas.

I now have an intelligent immersion heater controller that senses the house input current, and if I am exporting power, diverts the excess to the immersion heater (it pulse width modulates the heater supply so it matches the excess generated power. If I use something else, it reduces the power to the immersion heater to compensate)

But as an illustration:

Lets say my array is generating 1.5KW and I plug in my kettle. My kettle is a 3KW kettle, and takes 3 minutes to boil a cup of water consuming .15KWh. so it takes half the power it needs from the array (free) and half from the grid or .075KWh. If I make 6 drinks, I will pay for .3KWh. But if I had a 1.5KWh kettle, I would use my own power only, so not paying anything - but my kettle would take 6 minutes to boil. I'd still be using the same energy, but it would all be mine.

Now the cost in this example is small. .3KWh is about 5p, but over the year that adds up to £18.00! But the principle is that I need to smooth out my electricity usage throughout the day - so I shouldn't run the kettle, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier, cooker all at once! And this has altered the way I do things. I put appliances on serially so I have a smaller load for a longer period of time, and the same applies when I am cooking.

I also have a slow cooker (crock pot type of thing) which takes 200W, so I will be using that more frequently, and I have brought out of store an oil filled radiator connected to a second output of the immersion heater controller so when my water is hot, it provides a little bit of background heat. since the panels were installed, by gas consumption has been zero! And when I do put the gas central heating on, the power for the pump and controls should be partially met (during the day) by the panels.

Time will tell what the actual savings will be, but it is interesting to see how my attitude to energy consumption has changed.

Anyone interested in the immersion heater controller http://www.immersun.co.uk

(Oh yes, I only use my 1600W vacuum cleaner when the sun is shining! :) )

Yep - you learn to do things in a serial fashion - neat idea on the immersion control - sadly I'm on a combi boiler so its not a trick I can use. That said in the last 3 months I've only spent just over £110 on gas and electric , which is quite a significant saving!

Top thread :)

Right.. kettle first...

Camping shops online.. low wattage... you;ll find them around 900W

slower but effective for your needs :)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Swiss-Stainl.../dp/B00C765DO8

like that

next idea.. the low wattage hot water urn

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Igenix-Stain...ords=1000w+urn

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

950W... if you can get it to come on when the sun is out.. you're sorted all day long.

Fresh water every morning... job done

then you can use boiling water to kill weeds on your patio... for free with no chemicals.

Dare I ask what the total cost of panels plus extras such as the immersion was? Estimated time to recover the cost is? :)

Did you look into the heater panels rather than the electric panels for comparison as to how they would affect your bills? I've read good things about them, but it may have just been Eco talk rather than economics.

You make eco talk sound good when you compare it to economics jombouk :P

Looks really good peterb, the change in behaviour is interesting to say the least. I would like to hear what cost reduction you have achieved in a year, I suspect the second year will be better as your new routine gets refined.

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Originally Posted by Moby-Dick

Yep - you learn to do things in a serial fashion - neat idea on the immersion control - sadly I'm on a combi boiler so its not a trick I can use. That said in the last 3 months I've only spent just over £110 on gas and electric , which is quite a significant saving!

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That's encouraging - gas is relatively cheap - my annual gas and annual electricity bills are about the same, most of the gas cost is over winter, but if I can reduce gas consumption to near zero during the sumer, that will be a plus. I do save energy on some days of the week by having my shower at the gym after a work out! :) (Offsets the gym membership fee!)

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Originally Posted by Zak33

Top thread :)

Right.. kettle first...

Camping shops online.. low wattage... you;ll find them around 900W

slower but effective for your needs :)

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Now that I do like, and I see that other people withbsolar panels use it. I am also tempted by this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vektra-Eco-K.../dp/B00IS3LFHI which is slighly bigger at 1.2l and 1300W, or this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vektra-Elect.../dp/B00IAQ9VRY at 1800W.

Its getting the balance between convenience and saving so I'm still weighing up pros and cons.

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Originally Posted by Zak33

next idea.. the low wattage hot water urn

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Igenix-Stain...ords=1000w+urn

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

950W... if you can get it to come on when the sun is out.. you're sorted all day long.

Fresh water every morning... job done

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Again a great idea, but relies on controlling the heat input in the same way as the Immersun unit which PWM the output to the immersion heater (the thermostat will be a simple on/off - ie, all or nothing). The Immersun unit will control up to thre units, but that is upstairs, so I'd have to run a separate power feed to a dedicated socket. The alternative would be a second Immersun (they can be daisy chained, wirelessly) but the Immersun units are around £350 so the payback time would be quite high. And I NEED hot water water for my first cup of tea in the morning, so if it is dark, I'd need a kettle anyway. Which is why I quite like the Vektra! :)

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Originally Posted by Rob_B

Dare I ask what the total cost of panels plus extras such as the immersion was? Estimated time to recover the cost is? :)

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Now that is a VERY good question - but not a simple answer.

First of all, the installation cost just over £10,000. Yes, I drew a sharp intake of breath too! (And that includes AT at 5% - solar installations are rated at the lower rate if they are installed by an approved installer - which they have to be to qualify for the IT payments)

Now, looking at it as an investment - pure and simple. I estimate that I will earn £620 a year and hope to save at least £200/year on my existing energy bills. So that is an income of £820, which gives me a tax free return of 8.2% which is about as good as you'll get anywhere. And the Feed in tariff is linked to the RPI and guaranteed for 20 years, and energy prices are likely to rise, so the ROI may increase - even allowing for the reduced efficiency of the panels as they age. BUT - unlike a conventional investment, you can't sell or withdraw your cash - at least not until you sell the house, and it is then uncertain how much it enhances the house value. Now I think and hope that the savings and earning will be more than that, and the projected savings are nearer the £1,000 mark, but I won't really know what the actual figures are until next year. You could also argue that it isn't really paid for until you have got back the original investment and then start taking the profit.

It gets more complicated if you take out a loan, as I did. In that case, I need to look at the point at which I have paid off the loan and interest, and that would be between 6 and 10 years - but in practice I'l pay that off earlier. Again you could argue that it isn't really paying for itself until the loan and interest are paid off.

So in either case, it is a long term thing. Yes, if I move house it should add value and make the house more saleable, but I'm not planning on moving for a while yet. But it does take a lot of research and careful look at circumstances.

There is a large leap of faith in this - my gut instinct says it will be worth it, but it is a long term investment

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Originally Posted by jimbouk

Did you look into the heater panels rather than the electric panels for comparison as to how they would affect your bills? I've read good things about them, but it may have just been Eco talk rather than economics.

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I looked at it, but in the UK it is rare that solar thermal will get hot enough to heat domestic hot water (DHW) to an acceptable temperature on its own. It is good for pre-heating water that will then be boosted normally, but that would need a dual coil indirect hot water tank, and/or underfloor heating. Underfloor heating is not possible in my house. Installation is more complicated and requires some plumbing. Great for a new build, but not quite so good for retrofit.

I am lo0king at replacing the hot water tank with one that has a heating coil and two immersion heaters ("economy 7" tanks) so the Immersun heats the top of the tank first, then when that is up to temperature, diverts energy to the bottom one. However, that is anther £400 or so, and the payback period is still quite long.

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Originally Posted by Noxvayl

You make eco talk sound good when you compare it to economics jombouk :P

Looks really good peterb, the change in behaviour is interesting to say the least. I would like to hear what cost reduction you have achieved in a year, I suspect the second year will be better as your new routine gets refined.

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Yes, a year on will be interesting. There are a lot of factors involved. I have modified the use of appliances - I now turn my monitor off for example - a bit more energy going to the hot water tank! I already had my dishwasher filling off the hot water supply, so that is a bit more efficient. However, convenience is a consideration, as is the fact that I work from home quite a lot. If I was out, I'd be looking at other ways of maximising use. The slow cooker should help too.

Cooking is an interesting one. My oven is conventional electric with a simple thermostat, so when it is on - it takes 2.5KW, when off, it takes nothing. No proportional control of the heat output. So not good for using my solar energy, but does ensure the oven heats up quickly. The hob is induction, and I have to investigate how that controls energy output.

At low levels, the 'rings' seems to operate on the thermostat type principle - on for a bit, off for a bit, but at higher levels, the control seems to be proportional. So I need to try to determine what the input current is at low levels when it is on, and how that varies at the higher levels. A clip-on ammeter might be the solution.

My background load during the day (and night) is about 200 - 250w, (Mainly fridge and freezer) so taking the 200w figure that is about 5Kwh. Assuming a 50/50 split between day and night, and given that during daylight the system rarely produces less than 200w, every day I am saving 37.5p, which over a year is £135. and I think in reality it will probably be more than that as the day time quiescent load may be a higher proportion.

But it would be easy to get obsessive about this - yes, I'm looking to save money, but not to the extent when that starts impinging on the quality and convenience of life, and I'm sure I have yet to find that balance. :) I am reading my meters weekly at the moment so I should get some idea of the savings before my next bill which may inform the decisions about more energy saving measures - and the ROI.

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Originally Posted by peterb

Now, looking at it as an investment - pure and simple. I estimate that I will earn £620 a year and hope to save at least £200/year on my existing energy bills. So that is an income of £820, which gives me a tax free return of 8.2% which is about as good as you'll get anywhere. And the Feed in tariff is linked to the RPI and guaranteed for 20 years, and energy prices are likely to rise, so the ROI may increase - even allowing for the reduced efficiency of the panels as they age. BUT - unlike a conventional investment, you can't sell or withdraw your cash - at least not until you sell the house, and it is then uncertain how much it enhances the house value. Now I think and hope that the savings and earning will be more than that, and the projected savings are nearer the £1,000 mark, but I won't really know what the actual figures are until next year. You could also argue that it isn't really paid for until you have got back the original investment and then start taking the profit.

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I struggle to see this as a good investment. An 8% return is about what you would expect from the stock market over a long period of time, after adjusting for inflation. If energy price rises match inflation, then with an investment in the market you'd have the benefit of keeping your initial investment and, more importantly, compound interest. $10K invested in the market ten years ago would be worth over $22K today. You are looking at ten years just to pay back an investment that may or may not hold any value in ten years time, depending on, among other things, the solar panel industry. With technological developments, solar panels will only decrease in price and increase in yield. I can't foresee ten yea old panels adding substantially to the value of a home. To beat the historical market, you'll need the average price of electricity over ten years to be three times your current electricity price.

From a technology perspective, fantastic set up! :)

Any idea what happens when there is a power cut?
A little birdie told me that when there's a power cut, you don't get the power of the panels. I.e. you don;t get a daytime UPS for low loads.
My initial thoughts were that's untrue but then thinking about how such a setup would handle more load than it can generate and I'm not so sure now.
I've been considering this myself but as I am planning on an extension that will have a substantial effect on the roof in the next 5 years I've decided to not bother looking into it further.

On the economics side, if you've got a loan out and assuming you've contributed nothing, it's paying out every month that the savings outstrip your repayments. Anyone that suggests the payback is anything other than instant in that situation is missing the point. However you are performing a "leveraged" investment.
Of course, this doesn't apply in the same way if you have a shorter term loan than say 11 years.

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Originally Posted by TeePee

I struggle to see this as a good investment. An 8% return is about what you would expect from the stock market over a long period of time, after adjusting for inflation. If energy price rises match inflation, then with an investment in the market you'd have the benefit of keeping your initial investment and, more importantly, compound interest. $10K invested in the market ten years ago would be worth over $22K today. You are looking at ten years just to pay back an investment that may or may not hold any value in ten years time, depending on, among other things, the solar panel industry. With technological developments, solar panels will only decrease in price and increase in yield. I can't foresee ten yea old panels adding substantially to the value of a home. To beat the historical market, you'll need the average price of electricity over ten years to be three times your current electricity price.

From a technology perspective, fantastic set up! :)

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Well any investment carries a risk, generally the higher the risk, the higher the return, and a stock market investment is subject to dealing costs, capital gains and income tax - and the short term market movements. Investments in any house improvements is also perhaps questionable. I could have 'invested' in improved insulation - probably in the form of upgrading the double glazing, which would reduce energy consumption, but again difficult to quantify in terms of 'added value' to the house.

The solar cells are generating income, and reducing my on-grid energy consumption. You could argue that the income from (say) a fixed interest bond could be used to offset energy consumption payments, and that becomes a partly philosophical argument! From a practical point of view, the energy that was going to waste heating my roof and then the atmosphere is now being used to reduce my energy costs - before ultimately ending up heating the atmosphere! In terms of total energy consumption, that may reduce slightly, but the aim of the game is smoothing out the load so I use more of my solar generated energy and use les paid for energy from the grid. And that feed in tariff that is linked to the cost of living index is guaranteed for 20 years, so if I did sell the house in ten years, a selling point is the residual value of that FIT. But as with most investments, there are a lot of 'what ifs'!

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Originally Posted by badass

Any idea what happens when there is a power cut?
A little birdie told me that when there's a power cut, you don't get the power of the panels. I.e. you don;t get a daytime UPS for low loads.
My initial thoughts were that's untrue but then thinking about how such a setup would handle more load than it can generate and I'm not so sure now.
I've been considering this myself but as I am planning on an extension that will have a substantial effect on the roof in the next 5 years I've decided to not bother looking into it further.

On the economics side, if you've got a loan out and assuming you've contributed nothing, it's paying out every month that the savings outstrip your repayments. Anyone that suggests the payback is anything other than instant in that situation is missing the point. However you are performing a "leveraged" investment.
Of course, this doesn't apply in the same way if you have a shorter term loan than say 11 years.

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No, it is a regulatory requirement that on-grid systems shut down if the grid power is cut off. Apart from anything else it is a safety issue, you really don't want to be feeding power back into the grid if there are people working on what they thought was a dead circuit. And that is true of any micro-generation system that feds power to the grid. There are off grid systems that are independent (and you still get the generation payments, but not the deed in portion - provided it is installed by an approved installer). There is also a re-synchronisation issue when power is resupplied - synchronising lots of small generators with the grid is easy for the small systems. Synchronising the grid to lots of small uncontrolled small generators is less easy and is likely to damage the small systems!

On the economics side, yes, it is leveraged. I was initially offered a ten year loan (with early repayment options that would reduced the total interest) but I found a better deal for a 5 year loan. So initially my capital plus interest payments will exceed my income and savings (but I have a mechanism that will repay the loan early anyway) so the viability and actual return on investment is very much down to individual circumstances.

If you are planning a house extension, you might want to think about underfloor electric heating if solar_PV is still of interest to you. Underfloor heating linked to something like the Immersun is a good heatsink for surplus energy.

As I said earlier, there is an element of faith in this, but I am getting paid for what I produce, and I will reduce my energy costs so in the long term, it will pay for itself and then generate income.

Coolio! IME you'd have been better having them all installed on the south east side to maximise ROI.

Be interesting if you keep this thread updated with your monthly generation and reduction in bills?

Butuz

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Originally Posted by Butuz

Coolio! IME you'd have been better having them all installed on the south east side to maximise ROI.

Be interesting if you keep this thread updated with your monthly generation and reduction in bills?

Butuz

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The roof isn't big enough to have all the panels on one side, but while the peak power production may be less, power is produced over a longer period of time as the panels on the NW face generate later.

I will keep the thread updated!

nice photos of the panels in situ by the way :D

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Originally Posted by Zak33

nice photos of the panels in situ by the way :D

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Yes, and if you look at the top panel on the right, you will see that the two top retaining clips are missing, the installers left them off! They are coming back to fit them! :D

From the photo you've posted, using its orientation, it looks like the top left panel from the shady side of the roof and the bottom left panel on the side with sun on it... I'm guessing you are talking about it when looking at the roof from the ground, or swapping the picture orientation 180°, but I can spot it now that you've mentioned it; would of missed it otherwise :)

They are missing from the top edge of the right hand panel at the top of the shady side (the right hand one in landscape orientation)

OK, so clips have been refitted and all is working well. Not surprisingly, the energy I am harvesting is dropping as the sun gets lower in the sky and the days get shorter. My first feed in payment will be in December.

however, I have been monitoring energy usage from the grid, and according to my supplier, I should be reducing my monthly direct debit for gas and electricity by about £30/month. This is slightly complicated because I had built up a credit on the account, and the reduced payment takes that into account to wipe that out over the next seven months, and i have switched t a slightly cheaper tariff. But that indicates a saving of perhaps £300/year - and the savings should be better when the days start getting longer in the new year.

In practice, I'll probably request a refund of the credit and use that to reduce the outstanding loan, and of course I'll use the FIT tariff for the same purpose.

In december, I'll look at comparative energy usage from the grid over the same period last year. Of course, without an export meter, I don't know how much of the energy I produce is being used by me - the assumption will be the difference between the two figures, although my pattern of energy usage will have changed slightly.

It is now just over 3 months since the panels were installed, so I have some comparative energy figures.

From 5/9/13 to 5/12/13 I used 2,571 kWh of gas, and 805kWh of electricity. Cost before discounts and VAT was £260.93 Total energy consumption from external source was 3,376 kWh

From 9/9/14 to 9/12/14 I used 2,046 kWh of gas and 434 kWh of electricity. Cost before discount etc was £156.18. Total energy from external source was 2479 kWh.

In addition I generated 472 kWh of energy. It is hard to estimate how much of that I used, and how much I exported, but assuming I used all of it, I used less energy this quarter than the previous one. Now that could be down to the fact that it has been a milder autumn than last year, but I have been taking some steps to reduce energy consumption, so a realistic estimate might be that I used 80% of the energy I generated, making my energy consumption around 2,720 kWh.

So i have saved around £150 in energy costs, and I expect to receive around £80 in FIT payments, so net saving is £230 this quarter. Next quarter should be similar, depending on weather, but the two quarters after that should see greater generation and reduction in energy use as the days get longer and overall energy consumption reduces. I anticipate not using any gas at all in the summer.

The interest payments on the loan are around £17/month so over the quarter comes to £51 so overall I seem to be £180 better off. Of course, it isn't that simple, because I am also paying back the loan as well, so in the short term, I am worse off by about £200 over the quarter, but again that figure will change as the days get longer. The FIT will also increase slightly with the RPI, and any changes in energy costs will also affect the calculations, but overall, I am quite pleased with the result. My aim is to pay off the loan well before I have to, so the interest payments will effectively reduce as well.

So thats the update for this quarter!

Your estimation of cost savings was 200GBP/year, or 50GBP/quarter, while your actual figure shows a 600GBP/year cost saving.

Your estimation of income was 620GBP/year, or 155GBP/quarter, while your actual figure shows a 320GBP/year income.

What do you think is the biggest cause of the deviation from both estimates? I am please to see you're doing better than hope for!

10,000GBP invested in the S&P500 would have shown you a profit of ~325GBP for the quarter.

I was very cautious in my initial estimate, and the autumn has also been very mild. I have also taken positive steps to make maximum use of the power I generate, so I will use high energy consumption devices sequentially (for example, run washing machine, then dishwasher, rather than both at the same time} and delay running either until the sun is shining (where I can). In terms of cost, I have switched to a slightly cheaper tariff, which is why the energy savings are probably the best measure.

In terms of monthly cost, the tariff change has accounted for about £3/month, while the solar cells and energy saving measures account for about £15/month.

But on most days, during daylight hours, I generate enough to power the 'background' load, fridge, freezer, server and the like, and while they are low power devices, they are on 24x7 so the energy consumption mounts up.

I also expect the income from generation to increase during the summer, with longer days and better weather, so the annual income should be more than £320. For example, from 23 August to 9 September, I generated 157kWh, worth £22.50 or just over £1.50/day. If I average that over a year, then that is £550.

On the best day, I generated 15kWh, which is £2.40 worth. If I can generate that for 90 days over the summer that is £240. But I won't know until next August!

Hope we have a good summer! :)

I have just seen this thread for the first time and have to say that I find it most inspiring. I notice near me a lot of new builds are including solar panels on their rooves and wondered whether or not it was just another marketing gimick (possibly is with only 4 or six panels per property).

I would appreciate knowing some idea of the fixing method and weight loading of the panels - I live in a converted barn with 100m2 of roof.

Thanks in advance

Depends on the roof, but in my case, with standard clay tiles, a few tiles are lifted and supporting brackets fixed to the rafters. The tiles are then replaced, with arn arm protruding. Rails are fitted to these brackets, and the panels are fitted to the rails.

This means that the load is taken by the roof sub structure. Each panel weighs about 21 Kg. It's similar on concept to a car roof rack!

From the installation aspect, the maximum installed capacity for a domestic installation is 4kW. Which in my case is 16 panels. 4kW is the maximum under optimum conditions, so there will only be a short period in the day when that power will be generated, but that is the baseline.

You can install more, but the FIT drops slightly in terms of payment for energy generated, and domestically, 4kW is probably more than you can use, excep for brief peak demand, and as the payment for energy you feed in is based on 50% of what you generate, and is a relatively small amount, it probably isn't worth installing more, unless you go big time and have 30kW or more, when the energy you export is metered.

On the other hand, as installation is quite a large proportion of the cost, it probably isn't worth installing less, even if the installation isn't optimum. I have 10 panels facing South East, and 6 facing South West, dictated by the size of my roof.

So I never generate maximum power, but I generate for longer during the day as the sun swings round, at least in the summer. In winter when the sun is lower in the sky, output is lower.

My system uses one low power inverter per panel, so I generate AC power per panel, which minimises the effect of shading. In systems where several panels are connected in series to one high power inverter, shading of one panel can reduce the output of the whole array. That can be mitigated by splitting the array into several parts, with one inverter per array, but that puts the price up, and the inverters are quite big. My inverters are mounted on the roof rails under the panel that feeds it.

So there is a lot to think about. Technically, I think the micro-inverter is the way to go, and install the maximum you can up to 4kW. Panels don't need direct sunlight, but for maximum efficiency should be generally South facing. However there will never be a position that is always optimum throught the year because of the varying height of the sun throughout the year. However, although my panels have only been in for 4 months, I have usually met or exceeded my background load for at least part of the day.

Just noticed this morning that I have generated 700kWh since the system was installed last August. With the day's getting longer, I' m looking to see greater production in the next seven months.

Next FIT payment date is March.

Nice one - Winter hasn't been great for PV generation for me, but I dont have fancy micro invertors in my setup :P

I just calculated I did 776kWh since august ( which was my peak month at 277kWh generated - the lowest month was November with only 73kWh worth of generation )

I have 20 x 120W panels on my roof with a single invertor.

You panels sound as if they are more optimally positioned than mine, I have 10 facing south east and 6 northwest. The northwest array hasn't generated much in the winter, and the South East are shaded first thing with the sun low in the sky. The highest daily generation was the day after installation, just over 3kWh!

yeah mine are all south east facing - it doesn't do much for afternoon generation though.

Well apart from the fact that my SE facing roof only had space for 10, I did think that I would generate later in the afternoon. and that seems to be the case, so peak power is lower, but average is probably better, particularly in the summer.

unfortunately the subsidies are now what they used to be in the uk - shame

I've just ordered a full 4kw system for my house. Luckily, I have enough room on the house and garage roof to allow the full system a complete south facing view. Looking forward to reduced bills in the future.

Nights are drawing out, and not a cloud in the sky, 7.5 kWh, the highest so far this year.

yep - we're past the worst generation wise :)

7.85kWh yesterday, not a cloud in the sky from sunrise to sunset! :)

Good day yesterday we made 12 kwh up here in the North of Scotland although it has been a poor winter so far - to much cloud.

8 days after install and we are just over 60kWh here. Quite enjoying this solar panel system. Best day so far was 17.76kWh.

Those are good figures, makes a difference having all the arrays facing south!

Good day today with just over 21kWh generated. It'll be a month for me on Thursday and we are currently at 270kWh so going well.

Good for me too, 11.5 KWh, but it's been a good week. Submitting my readings today, I'll post when I've looked at the figures.

Enjoying the sunshine, and the solar cells are doing well. Over the last two weeks I have generated 310kWh, which is about 20% of the toal 1.5MWh generated since installation. Although the panels are not optimally installed, the panels on the North west roof are now contributing to a late evening boost which is a useful contribution. Day was yesterday at 19.7kWh. Peak power was last week when it just reached 2.85 kW

Looking at the consumption figures for the last quarter compared with the same period before the cells were installed:

12/13 - 3/14 - E 821 kWh Gas 4347 kWh

12/14 - 3/15 - E 611 kWh Gas 4790 kWh

So about a25% saving in electricity consumption. Interestingly an increase in gas, but my primary heating method is gas and the winter was colder than the year before.

But I have now switched off the gas heating to the hot water tank, and the heating is turned down and will probably be turned off at the timer at the end of April, so it will be on demand rather than on the thermostat, so I expect my gas usage to drop to near zero for the next 5 to six months.

Monetary savings are harder to quantify as I have changed tariffs, but my dual fuel direct debit has dropped by £15 /month, with a surplus building up, so I expect next year's DD to be reduced by at least a further £10/month; I hope more!

Have seen a solar panel washing service to keep the panels at optimum efficiency. Is that something you have looked at? I can't imagine it is cheap.

No, not bothered. The panels are supposed to be coated to avoid dirt sticking to them, so Im quite happy to let the rain/wind do the work! There will be a small drop off in efficiency, but probably not enough to offset the cost of cleaning as they are roof mounted. I'll have a look at them at some point to see how dirty/dusty they are getting!

Our panels are doing well. As of last night, we were up to 850KWh generated since mid feb. I think the best day that I have seen is just over 25KWh.

I'm still waiting on the latest bill but since they are 6 monthly, I'm not expecting to see a massive drop in this one but looking forward to October's bill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1stRaven

Our panels are doing well. As of last night, we were up to 850KWh generated since mid feb. I think the best day that I have seen is just over 25KWh.

I'm still waiting on the latest bill but since they are 6 monthly, I'm not expecting to see a massive drop in this one but looking forward to October's bill.

---

How much does it cost for solar panels to be installed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1stRaven

Our panels are doing well. As of last night, we were up to 850KWh generated since mid feb. I think the best day that I have seen is just over 25KWh.

I'm still waiting on the latest bill but since they are 6 monthly, I'm not expecting to see a massive drop in this one but looking forward to October's bill.

---

Those are good figures! Ive just passed 1.5MWh since installation, and as I write this, generating 2.5kW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csgohan4

How much does it cost for solar panels to be installed?

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Depends on the size and type of the array, and the technology used, and the difficulty of installation, but anything from around £6k to £15k, but those are only ballpark figures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csgohan4

How much does it cost for solar panels to be installed?

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I paid just over £6k for our split array. Its a 4k system, using the same panels and inverter manufacture that we use on our work buildings. Granted, I didn't pay the extras for web monitors or displays and it is a smaller system but the figures made sense since our standard background usage is around 0.8KWh (large media server and large fish tank) so even a dull day will help pay towards it. We were expecting a pay back time of around 5.8 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterb

Those are good figures! Ive just passed 1.5MWh since installation, and as I write this, generating 2.5kW.

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I broke that record on Thursday, with 26.5KWh in a day. April has been a nice month but not expecting to push the figure up much more with the forecast over the next week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

Have seen a solar panel washing service to keep the panels at optimum efficiency. Is that something you have looked at? I can't imagine it is cheap.

---

Ladder and a jetwash would do the job surely? ;)

Now around nine months since installation, and looking at the figures, I have generated just over 2Mwh or energy, of which nearly a quarter (450kwh) was generated in May. The peak power has been just over 3kw, but generally it is sound 2 to 2.3 unless it is very overcast.

the next FIT reading is due in June, so I'll look at the figures then and see you my grid consumption has changed.

This will be our first fit payment so just waiting for the meter reading request to come in. We were at 1550KWh this morning so should be a nice little payment hopefully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1stRaven

This will be our first fit payment so just waiting for the meter reading request to come in. We were at 1550KWh this morning so should be a nice little payment hopefully.

---

Excellent, I've reached 2MWh, but that is in 9 months!

Just submitted my FIT reading, and expect to receive around £205, making £345 for the last nine months. On the assumption that the next quarter will be the same, that will be about £550 for the year, slightly less than the original forecast. In terms of savings, my monthly bill will reduce by about £31/month, compared with last year although it has been reduced throughout the year, but represents a saving of around £330 a year, making an overall return of £880 a year, which is about a 9% return on investment, not including the opportunity cost (i.e., it isn't an investment I can cash in and regain the capital, unless I sell my house)

Im not sure what difference it would make to the house value. These things are difficult to estimate, but it would certainly be a selling point and could tip the balance between this and one without, even at a price premium. But as I'm not planning to move any time soon, these questions are of little practical relevance at the moment.

Congratulations again on beating your initial estimates. I'll also point out that, on face value, you've beaten the market as well. Based on 9/25/14-6/1/15 you'd have seen about a 6.5% return.

However, the retained value of the panels remains the issue here. Assuming even a very optimistic 20 year life span, the profit here is significantly below market returns.

That said, I think you are being over cautious assuming the next quarter will be the same. Summer is just beginning, and you should be seeing bigger returns. With your particular set up, those 6 north facing panels should really benefit from a more advantageous axial inclination over the summer months!

I'm still waiting for the letter or email asking for the FIT reading but only my housemate has access to the npower account so maybe we just need to logon to submit it.

We hit 1700Kwh yesterday so depending when we submit, I guess that we are looking at around £250 for the last 4 months. The good news is that npower just dropped our main bill by £70 per month due to the reduction in electrical usage and gas since october. Looks like the heating work and these solar panels have done good work together. We also have the export credit on top of this but that wont arrive until march next year.

Just received our first FIT payment today which was a nice start to the month. They appear to have included our export payment in it as well as we received just under £300.

Below is a graph of our reduced energy consumption since we had the panels installed. Looking at an average saving of around £30 per month at the moment. Along with the expected 3.6MWh per year generation and we are looking at around the £950 mark per year. Could even be higher consider the generation rate that we are hitting.

http://www.ryanniblett.co.uk/images/npower.jpg

With the possible and indeed likely reduction of feed in tariffs which would result in generation of under £100 a year (??!!!) the future seems to be squarely with in home power storage and more efficient solar panels much like what tesla are testing. The ability to then top up during the lower night time tariffs and with solar topping the batteries during the day, it could even lead to the UK moving away from gas for central heating etc.

Brilliant thread.

Due to our energy usage, I am tempted by the power storage systems. However, I estimate that I would need to be storing around 7-9KW to provide overnight power for the server, lights and PC's. That would take quite a bright day to provide power for the house during the day as well as recharging the batteries. That reduces the number of days that the system would fully work and therefore, just extends the repayment period of the technology.

Guess it depends on how expensive the home power storage technology is and how quickly it does in price.

Fully agree. Although if the government spent less on new power stations (particularly the nuclear ones with guaranteed extremely high energy prices) and invested in clean energy like home power storage, home generation etc our demand on the grid would reduce dramatically.

Maybe ensuring new builds have solar panels as a minimum or encourage these ground heat pumps.

I looked at home storage systems recently. I think a 2.5kwh hr unit would be sufficient to power all the background stuff overnight and reduce my grid consumption to practically zero. However, the unit is quite big and costs around £2900. The batteries however are extra and it needs two at a shade under £1000 each. The payback period is 10 to 12 years, about the estimated life of the batteries!

I expect prices will fall in due course, but at the moment it isn't worth it for home use.

My next FIT reading is due next week, so that will be the first year to do a like on like comparison.

Thanks for reminding me. Its been a rubbish month for Solar so I think we have only generated around 1.2MWh over the past quarter.

Just submitted my reading. Currently at 3055KWh so only 1199KWh in the last 3 months. Shows how poor the weather has been over the last 3 months.

Ouch, that must affect your return on expenditure pretty hard?

It might do. September has been good so far so the next three months could make up for the summer figure. When I was investigating all of this, the solar companies were estimating an annual generation of 3.6MWh over the course of the year - a figure that I think we will be beat considering we have another 6 months to go (granted, these will be poorer than the summer months).

We have had ours installed at the office - 38 x 300W panels (LG) with 2 x SMA Inverters.

We've done it for the sheer amount of power we use to try and cut bills and of course get some FIT action.

Will it pay off? For sure, question is how quickly.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO853JvWgAA0hsd.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO8524QWUAAc54i.jpg

Ours is now up and running, we've got 2 additional panels so 40 in total - 300W each. Will keep you all up to date on the performance

Nice work. We are doing the same on some of our food stores - 8-12kw depending on the size of the store but with the lighting, fridges and freezers, it all gets used during the day.

Bump! great post. Do the panels have a 10 year warranty on then Peter? .. I did a quick search, British gas stopped doing the offer they had last year. Also the Sainsbury offer with British Gas has gone too :/
A Government consultation's proposing a changes to the solar panel scheme. It wants to greater reduce the amount those with panels are paid for generating electricity from January 2016, that new ppl who have them installed. http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/ne...tes_by_87_2324

So come on peeps - what KWH are you generating on a daily basis and how big is your system?

Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can install a solar system, but I stumbled across http://pvoutput.org/map.jsp?country=243 last year or something. Really useful information if you want to compare your system to others in the area. They also show the size of the setup and the efficiency etc.

So, 12 months on and time to take stock!

In the last quarter (June - September) I generated 1.123 MWh which was to all intents and purposes, the same as the previous quarter, not helped by the relatvely poor weather in August

For the year

Sep-Dec 2014 472 kWh
Dec-Mar 2015 368 kWh
Mar-Jun 2015 1226 kWh
Jun-Sep 2015 1241 kWh

The amount earned came to a few pence short of £600.

The other side of the equation is the energy saving.

Nov 2013-Nov 2014 Electricity 2563 kWh Gas 9,200 kWh
Sep 2014-Sep 2015 Electricity 1850kWh Gas 8,309 kWh

I don't have September 2014 readings, but it is still a year.

Reduction of 713 kWh in electricity consumption and 891kWh in gas. In practice I have used 32 kWh of gas (one cubic foot) in the last 6 months as all my hot water has been generated from the solar panels via an 'intelligent' immersion heater controller.

In financial terms, my monthly energy bill has dropped from £81/month to £51/month, so the cost saving is £360/year. However I was overpaying my bill, and received a rebate, so my actual saving was about £260

So overall I am getting £860/year on my investment which is just around 8.5% (not taking into account loan interest, which reduces the net payback to around 4.5%, but that will be paid off in the next few months.

So was it worth it?

Yes, and will come a better investment as time goes on - while I remain in the house! Solar panels should make the house a more attractive sale proposition, although whether I would get back that investment is guesswork.

The reduction in feed in tariffs would tip the balance considerably, although I would expect installation costs to be falling as the technology matures.

So anyone contemplating solar - do your sums and research very carefully - it does pay in terms of energy consumption but it does take a change in routines (to make maximum use of generated power and minimise use of grid power.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jace007

Bump! great post. Do the panels have a 10 year warranty on then Peter? .. I did a quick search, British gas stopped doing the offer they had last year. Also the Sainsbury offer with British Gas has gone too :/
A Government consultation's proposing a changes to the solar panel scheme. It wants to greater reduce the amount those with panels are paid for generating electricity from January 2016, that new ppl who have them installed. http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/ne...tes_by_87_2324

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The installation and panels have a ten year warranty, the inverters themselves have a 20 year warranty.

I'm glad its saving you money peterb thanks for the updates. it will be intresting to see what the government does with the feed in tariff in the next few months, the proposed tariff paid for generating electricity will be cut from 12.4p to 1.6p. Just mad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterb

The installation and panels have a ten year warranty, the inverters themselves have a 20 year warranty.

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I'm surprised inverters have a 20 year warranty because of their limited lifespan. How long do you think your inverters will last and what would be the cost of replacement?

I'm going to be the negative nancy and point out the downside once again. 860GBP a year sounds like a good return. But the snag has always been the declining value of the panels. Amortized over 20 years, which is probably generous, we are down to a 330GBP return. Even without accounting for the depreciation, you'd still be better off investing the money. Had you invested that 10K into the S and P 500, you'd now have about 11066GBP (8.6% gain and 2% dividend yield).

If the market and all pricing remained stable, in 20 years your 10K investment will have been worth 18130 (inflation dirtily adjusted), compared to 75000 invested in the market.

Of course, none of these things will remain stable, and energy prices in particular will outpace inflation over the next 20 years, which will likely work in your favour. But they have to go a long way to make this a sound financial investment.

And a year on from installation and Ive just submitted my fifth quarter reading. Slightly down on last year at £73 this quarter, £79 for the equivalent period last year. Several reasons spring to mind, last Autumn's weather was better (more sunshine) although the warmer weather in the summer seems to have delayed some nearby trees shedding their leaves, so early morning shading seems a bit more pronounced.

Fitting the cells has made me more energy conscious. I have fitted LED lamps throughout the house (except for very low use areas) and when I do use gas for water heating (rather than solar) I only run the boiler long enough to heat about half a tank (which is what the solar panels do, through the immersion heater) and I find that is enough for the day (if it isn't, I can boost it)

I do have reasonable efficient heating controls, which were replaced a couple of years ago. I am tempted by a Nest thermostat, but I doubt it would offer much in the way of a significant saving, so a long payback period - but probably more convenient - and I like the technology.

As I said in the last report, my monthly energy bill has dropped from ~£81/month to £51/month (partly due to reduced energy costs) and I am on track to receive a rebate the end of the year.

In financial terms, as Teepee point out, the question of whether it is a good return on investment is a fine one. In terms of 'green-ness' its a good one, but that alone wouldn't persuade me unless it was at least financially neutral, or beneficial. The changes in subsidies and the feed-in tariff has changed the equations, although the installation costs have fallen - I suspect installing my system now would be around 20% less than I paid, but the returns are lower.

As ever, if you are thinking about this, do your sums carefully!

Just out of interest, I downloaded a graph for 12 months generation - no surprises, it follows the sun's diurnal declination.

https://forums.hexus.net/members/pet...3911-chart.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Top_gun

I'm surprised inverters have a 20 year warranty because of their limited lifespan. How long do you think your inverters will last and what would be the cost of replacement?

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Sorry, missed that post. The inverters cost about £90 each when they were installed. The price has dropped a bit since then, so around £70 each. The real cost of replacement though is getting onto the roof and lifting the panel to gain access to the failed inverter itself, and that might mean a scaffolding tower.

That said, when the installers came back to fit the two panel retaining clips (left off by mistake) they used a ladder and lifted with a safety harness clipped round the panel mounting rails, so it could probably be done in an hour or so.

Ramboll UK were going to install solar panels at their Southampton office, but those plans are on hold now thanks to the changes in the feed in tariffs. There was a sound business case for doing them, neutral cost for the equipment allowing the site to be powered entirely by solar panels and then selling the excess to the grid when more is produced over the summer... but now the feed in tariff makes accountants twitch and the whole thing seems to be on hold. I'm interested to find out if the project goes ahead anyway, not like they are making use of the fields they own...

Good to see your panels are working out for you. I wouldn't be interested in getting solar panels on my roof unless I could pair them up to a battery that could power the house for at least a few hours. If I do get them in the future it would be to make sure the power supply to my house is 100% stable and has hours worth of redundancy built in so I can live comfortably without grid energy. Unfortunately that is not cost effective just yet, but it should be when I can afford the solar panels to begin with so I have no choice but to wait and see :D

The changes in feed in tariffs has changed the figures, it remains to be seen if it drives down prices. Of course there is still the saving in consumption costs.

I looked at storage system earlier in this thread

http://forums.hexus.net/home-garden-...ml#post3525440

At the moment the battery technology makes this uneconomic, but that may change as it becomes more common place/battery technology matures.

It could be an exciting development, and battery technology is being driven (no pun intended) by electric vehicles.

I appreciate the serious nature of this discussion (and its inclination into the Devil's magic, or maths as you like to call it) and I feel I am morally obligated to inform you of the damage you are doing to our beautiful planet.

If you please point your attention to the following link : here./

You will learn a great deal from a local community. Please contact me if you wish to discuss this further

/sarcasm

On a more serious note we not long ago (3/4 months) had company representative come to our property to have a chat. I live in a privately rented flat in the middle(ish) of Newcastle and apparently the roof is the source of some pretty weird situations between landlords, the Council and the ownership of the roof (I didn't really get it but my father-in-law knew what we meant)

The summary of it was the council were performing initial surveys of current residents and their landlords to see if they could install solar panels down the entire street. The agreement would stand as follows:

The landlord/tenant pays nothing to the installation or maintenance of the panels.
The panels remain the property of the installation company at all times.
The tenant gets 'first use' of the power produced by the the panels.
The right to benefit derived from the feed in tariff is surrendered to the panel owner.

It was an interesting one and I couldn't see any immediate reasons to outright refuse it so we provided a pretty positive response to the suggestion but we've heard squat of it since.

Admittedly, we wouldn't see a massive benefit in the winter as me and my girlfriends annual bill for gas and electric is pretty low, circa £550 with it being more electricity than gas, and most of that is after the hours of 7pm and before 8am, as we are both out of the house from during the day . With the small flat we only have space for one under counter unit so it has to be a washer dryer and we find ourself putting loads on over the night (my sleeping pattern is so poor I normally do a load of washing in the middle of the night as well so we can do 2 loads a night!). This obviously is the largest single contributor to our electricity bill.

I think being realistic we could save maybe £60 - £80 if we try and change our life style but any more savings would probably require further investment from ourselves. But I do think this is a situation that really benefits a certain lifestyle. In the next 9 - 12 months we could both be working from our home and in which case I would imagine our electricity and gas usage go up but we would be better placed to efficiently run our requirements from the panels if they were installed.

I'll keep people posted if this goes any further but I wonder if people have heard of similar schemes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jowsey

<---snip

...not long ago (3/4 months) had company representative come to our property to have a chat. I live in a privately rented flat in the middle(ish) of Newcastle and apparently the roof is the source of some pretty weird situations between landlords, the Council and the ownership of the roof (I didn't really get it but my father-in-law knew what we meant)

The summary of it was the council were performing initial surveys of current residents and their landlords to see if they could install solar panels down the entire street. The agreement would stand as follows:

The landlord/tenant pays nothing to the installation or maintenance of the panels.
The panels remain the property of the installation company at all times.
The tenant gets 'first use' of the power produced by the the panels.
The right to benefit derived from the feed in tariff is surrendered to the panel owner.

It was an interesting one and I couldn't see any immediate reasons to outright refuse it so we provided a pretty positive response to the suggestion but we've heard squat of it since.

Admittedly, we wouldn't see a massive benefit in the winter as me and my girlfriends annual bill for gas and electric is pretty low, circa £550 with it being more electricity than gas, and most of that is after the hours of 7pm and before 8am, as we are both out of the house from during the day . With the small flat we only have space for one under counter unit so it has to be a washer dryer and we find ourself putting loads on over the night (my sleeping pattern is so poor I normally do a load of washing in the middle of the night as well so we can do 2 loads a night!). This obviously is the largest single contributor to our electricity bill.

I think being realistic we could save maybe £60 - £80 if we try and change our life style but any more savings would probably require further investment from ourselves. But I do think this is a situation that really benefits a certain lifestyle. In the next 9 - 12 months we could both be working from our home and in which case I would imagine our electricity and gas usage go up but we would be better placed to efficiently run our requirements from the panels if they were installed.

I'll keep people posted if this goes any further but I wonder if people have heard of similar schemes?

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Yes, its called rent-a-roof and it was touted to private home owners about three years ago to reduce costs. It wasn't very popular as it could make selling the house tricky as the lease arrangement for the roof space had to be transferred to the new owner. As the feed-in tariff has decreased in value, the scheme has become less attractive to those promoting it.

However, it does make more sense for rented properties where ownership might be for a longer period of time, particularly if the owner is the council. In your case it sounds like a company looking to economise on scale, but it may be that the reduction in FiT has rendered it uneconomic for them, or perhaps some private landlords didn't agree.

I was reading this thread and vaguely remembered reading that solar panels use more energy to produce than they will ever pay back in energy generated.

It turns out I wasn't imagining it. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...icity-they-use

However that is no longer true. In fact modern solar panels have paid their "energy debt" within 3-4 years of use and the entire industry will have paid its energy debt by 2020.

I know the laissez-faire capitalists amongst us believe all government intervention results in disaster but this is a good example of where government intervention has been positive. Solar panels would not have been popular enough to get those costs (energy and monetary)down so quickly without subsidies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by badass

I was reading this thread and vaguely remembered reading that solar panels use more energy to produce than they will ever pay back in energy generated.

It turns out I wasn't imagining it. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...icity-they-use

However that is no longer true. In fact modern solar panels have paid their "energy debt" within 3-4 years of use and the entire industry will have paid its energy debt by 2020.

I know the laissez-faire capitalists amongst us believe all government intervention results in disaster but this is a good example of where government intervention has been positive. Solar panels would not have been popular enough to get those costs (energy and monetary)down so quickly without subsidies.

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Very true. Governments have (or should have) a very important role in kick starting new industries or processes. The FIT has been very good at starting the solar industry, and in subsidising initial costs. Solar panels are less expensive now than 5 years ago, and as the subsidies reduce,nth at should drive installation costs down.

Personally, I'd like to see the generation value reduce, but the true 'feed in' element increase, so you benefit from the power you generate in reduced bills, but sell surplus back at a higher rate.

The same kick starting process applies to electric cars, with the Government incentive there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterb

Very true. Governments have (or should have) a very important role in kick starting new industries or processes. The FIT has been very good at starting the solar industry, and in subsidising initial costs. Solar panels are less expensive now than 5 years ago, and as the subsidies reduce,nth at should drive installation costs down.
*snip*

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I have to ask why you think a Goverment we all pay to should pay an company to do business, ie I have a great idea but it will not be a viable business for 10 years so i think the tax payer should pay for it..... where else should this logic be applied? steel /coal/ bob down the road who might save the world with an app.....etc?

Why should all tax payers have to have some of there money used so that a minority of people can install equiptment (they cannot normally afford) and then be guarenteed an income (again subed by my money) and have the generation taken off their personnal bill, surely it should be collated as a whole and spread between all taxpayers as they forked up the cash and continue to sub the price paid.

Having it setup as is now means the poorest pay the most for their energy as they most likely rent or cannot afford even the subed price for this scheme.

Simple rules of business, make something that works well in all circumstances and is mainstream affordable and you have a business model to invest in, or go bust.

Quote:

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The same kick starting process applies to electric cars, with the Government incentive there.

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Again same logic applies when you have a product that is effective at replacing a mainstream family car for a price poeple are willing to pay your onto a winner, but expecting tax payers to throw cash at you until it happens,,,, crazy.

As for the "but it helpped drive down production costs (energy & monetary)", so does having a good working product that people want & can afford, nothing that would not of happened over a longer time.

I would rather they dumpped all this industry interfeing/Paying over the odds to people for generating elec, & put the cash into health/education/infrasturture/security.

Want to make cleaner energy/car..etc fine do what every other company has to, prove it works to investors. Free handouts for the few so that Mr/Mrs goverment can say they are doing their part (while wasting tax payers money on a market that at the moment is not sustainable (see all folding green energy installers etc)) just a waste.

Because the long term benefit is for the public good. The telephone is a good example, initially Government run (although like most nationalised industries, subsequently under invested in)

The internet is another, initially a Government (US) funded research programme.

Computing is another example (although driven by the Second World War).

The National grid...

All things that long term are of benefit to all but where in initial investment costs/risk might deter private enterprise.

However, this is getting off the original topic, so if you would like to start a topic about Government vs Private investment in GD, then please do so :)

(Or I can move these two posts for you to er 'kick start' it)

Just submitted my FIT readings for the three months from September to December.

Slightly down on last year, 436kWh as opposed to 472kWh last year, probably because the skies have been particularly overcast during December with lots of rain. However, the mild weather has also reduced my gas heating bill, so not all bad, and my monthly energy bill has been reduced again.

My energy consumption is probably as low as I can get it without replacing the old heating boiler with a more modern condensing version (capital outlay and increased maintenance costs) or better insulated windows - triple glazing would be a significant improvement of the 4mm double glazed units currently installed, but again it comes back to RoI. And with all home improvements how much does it add to the capital value of the house, although increased comfort is an important factor!

Interesting, thread, I've just had a read through of all of it. Thanks Peter for your contributions and openness.

For those of us interested in PV and all that jazz right now, where would you recommend getting information for those sums we should be doing?

We'll be moving house in the start of the new year and I am interested to see if whacking some panels on the roof could be a good idea for us.

Strangely, just submitted my reading as well today. Looking forward to the middle of Feb where we will have a year's worth of records to look at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PorcupineTime

Interesting, thread, I've just had a read through of all of it. Thanks Peter for your contributions and openness.

For those of us interested in PV and all that jazz right now, where would you recommend getting information for those sums we should be doing?

We'll be moving house in the start of the new year and I am interested to see if whacking some panels on the roof could be a good idea for us.

---

These would be good places to start:

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/...-tariff-scheme

http://www.fitariffs.co.uk

To get the FiT the system must be installed by a registered installer who will generally carry out a survey and give a projected estimate of your annual generation capacity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterb

Just submitted my FIT readings for the three months from September to December.

Slightly down on last year, 436kWh as opposed to 472kWh last year

---

Interestingly, that's about the same power I consumed driving my car around in the same time period (I got a power point on Sept 3rd, with a dedicated meter)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterb

These would be good places to start:

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/...-tariff-scheme

http://www.fitariffs.co.uk

To get the FiT the system must be installed by a registered installer who will generally carry out a survey and give a projected estimate of your annual generation capacity.

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Thanks Peter, I'll have a snoop.

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Originally Posted by directhex

Interestingly, that's about the same power I consumed driving my car around in the same time period (I got a power point on Sept 3rd, with a dedicated meter)

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As I'm already interested in an electric car, this is a very interesting point. You're saying that I could get an electric car and it would effectively be free because it would run off the sun?! Right? That's what you're saying, yes?

Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my wallet emptying.

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Originally Posted by PorcupineTime

Thanks Peter, I'll have a snoop.



As I'm already interested in an electric car, this is a very interesting point. You're saying that I could get an electric car and it would effectively be free because it would run off the sun?! Right? That's what you're saying, yes?

Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my wallet emptying.

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I plan to make my first ever new car purchase be the Tesla Model 3... After that I need a house and some solar panels and I'll be off grid baby :D

Currently driving a Honda Jazz, most reliable car on the road in the UK but so damn noisy inside. I have a love/hate relationship with it but it fits a full Webber BBQ in the back without me having to take the legs off so it is amazing for moving stuff around. Just horrible to drive...

I'm off topic here but yeah, my wallet is empty already as a student... I can dream though :)

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Originally Posted by PorcupineTime

Thanks Peter, I'll have a snoop.



As I'm already interested in an electric car, this is a very interesting point. You're saying that I could get an electric car and it would effectively be free because it would run off the sun?! Right? That's what you're saying, yes?

Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my wallet emptying.

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The challenge is using the power generated efficiently. As I mentioned early in the thread, if the panels are generating 2 kW, then it makes sense to limit the load to the power generated so you would (for example) run a washing machine taking 2kW then a dishwasher, running 2kW, rather than run both appliances at the same time. (those figures are only for illustration). So while the solar cells would reduce the grid consumption for charging an electric car, unless you had a large array (which affects the FiT) then you may still be using grid power. And of course, most electric car users will charge overnight, when there is no sunshine.

However, industrial complexes where the FiT rules are different, using solar cells to provide power for employees' car charging may be an option. (Not sure what the tax position would be though :))

Don't come in here, to your own thread, with FACTS peter. That's not what I want to hear right now.

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Originally Posted by PorcupineTime

Don't come in here, to your own thread, with FACTS peter. That's not what I want to hear right now.

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You are in the wrong forum then! :p

So some updates from us.

We had our system installed in 18th September 2015

We have 40*300W Panels (LG) - 12KW system on the roof and it's been interesting the data which we collate from it.

So far we have generated: Total: 1483.21 kWh

The best day we've had so far is October 2nd where we did 46kWh in one day.

October we did 575.59kWh in total.

So it's working, just can't wait for the summer.

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Originally Posted by DR

So some updates from us.

We had our system installed in 18th September 2015

We have 40*300W Panels (LG) - 12KW system on the roof and it's been interesting the data which we collate from it.

So far we have generated: Total: 1483.21 kWh

The best day we've had so far is October 2nd where we did 46kWh in one day.

October we did 575.59kWh in total.

So it's working, just can't wait for the summer.

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I posted this earlier in the thread, shows the seasonal variation quite nicely!

https://forums.hexus.net/members/pet...3911-chart.jpg

Did you make that graph yourself or is it something that's provided by the, erm, provider?

Comes from the provider, but is the actual output of my array.

(The inverters are controlled by a separate controller that monitors their performance and transmits that back to a central location for health monitoring. This is in addition to the generation meter that provides the generation figures for the FIT)

Some more data from ours:

http://forums.hexus.net/attachments/...5245710d32.png
http://forums.hexus.net/attachments/...5244909748.png