A lost art

I had to make up a specific cable extension yesterday, which involved putting three pin plug on a cable. Wiring a three pin plug is something I've done scores of times, but not for a while with the introduction of mounded cable sets.

It used to a rite of passage for (mainly) sons learning from their Dads - I was about 8 or 9 when my Dad showed me, but I wonder if it is now a lost art or considered "too dangerous" for other than electrician to do?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/staticarchive/7...46781134de.gif

It should be mandatory to learn how to do this in schools. I taught all of my kids how to do this *properly* !

You wouldnt believe some of the bad wiring I've seen in UK mains plugs.

I was taught how to do it in school in the 2000's, but I can well believe it would be dropped at some point.

I only recently discovered that it was typical in the UK at one point to sell devices without the plug on the end. These days, obviously, that doesn't happen. I can't say that I've ever needed to do it so far in my life.

I know a guy who bought a new TV because his last one just stopped working. His dad happened to call round, before he dumped the old TV, and asked him if he'd checked the fuse. A blank stare gave him the answer. The TV was fine.

Simple DIY skills are an endangered species.

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Originally Posted by g8ina

You wouldnt believe some of the bad wiring I've seen in UK mains plugs.

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When we bought our first house, they included the cooker and washer in the sale.

The first time I used any more than two rings on the cooker, it stopped working. The consumer unit was still live and nothing had tripped, so I pulled the cooker out to check the wiring to the back of it. The 30 amp cable from the consumer unit was terminated with a free hanging mains socket, and the cooker was wired into a 13 amp plug.

The light fitting in the upstairs hallway was also being used as the junction box for all the upstairs lighting circuits - literally 6 pairs of wires jammed into two contacts!

Oh and the electric shower was was wired to the mains using 2.5mm twin and earth, and the MCB contacts had been shorted (presumably because it kept tripping), so the the contacts heated up to the point of melting the fusebox housing.

None of this was picked up by the electrical survey we paid for prior to buying. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Spreadie

When we bought our first house, they included the cooker and washer in the sale.

The first time I used any more than two rings on the cooker, it stopped working. The consumer unit was still live and nothing had tripped, so I pulled the cooker out to check the wiring to the back of it. The 30 amp cable from the consumer unit was terminated with a free hanging mains socket, and the cooker was wired into a 13 amp plug.

The light fitting in the upstairs hallway was also being used as the junction box for all the upstairs lighting circuits - literally 6 pairs of wires jammed into two contacts!

Oh and the electric shower was was wired to the mains using 2.5mm twin and earth, and the MCB contacts had been shorted (presumably because it kept tripping), so the the contacts heated up to the point of melting the fusebox housing.

None of this was picked up by the electrical survey we paid for prior to buying. :rolleyes:

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I hope you pursued them for the cost of remediation?

I was taught it in school, but thats not sure to say that people remember it. My brother in law is a surveyor (i.e. works on building sites all day) and can't even manage hanging a mirror. Fundamentally a lot of people are just garbage at anything that isn't 'buy a new one'. TBH its probably a good thing. The only thing you really get nowadays that needs the plug changing is cookers and such, and the odd time when wiring applicances in without wanting to cut cupboards and things. Probably a good thing people don't know how tbh

I was taught it at school in the late 90's, but already knew about it from my Dad by that point anyway. However, I can see how the H+S culture would want to try to prevent a lot of people from trying. I believe all plugs on new devices are now moulded and cannot by taken apart?

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Originally Posted by Spreadie

The light fitting in the upstairs hallway was also being used as the junction box for all the upstairs lighting circuits - literally 6 pairs of wires jammed into two contacts!

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I replaced the light fixtures in my hallway last week (legal to do without a Part P since it is using an existing fixture) and found something similar. I bought this place new a couple a years ago! There are two lights in the hallway, but also a fire alarm. The RCB in the electrical box was labelled as "lights + fire alarm" so I quickly worked out what was going on. They were looping the second light through the first fixture, but also had a permanent live looped through it (i.e. not controlled by the light switch) that went to the fire alarm which was physically between both light fixtures.

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Originally Posted by Gerrard

I was taught it at school in the late 90's, but already knew about it from my Dad by that point anyway. However, I can see how the H+S culture would want to try to prevent a lot of people from trying. I believe all plugs on new devices are now moulded and cannot by taken apart?

I replaced the light fixtures in my hallway last week (legal to do without a Part P since it is using an existing fixture) and found something similar. I bought this place new a couple a years ago! There are two lights in the hallway, but also a fire alarm. The RCB in the electrical box was labelled as "lights + fire alarm" so I quickly worked out what was going on. They were looping the second light through the first fixture, but also had a permanent live looped through it (i.e. not controlled by the light switch) that went to the fire alarm which was physically between both light fixtures.

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It isn't a problem when done correctly. Most ceiling roses these days cater for pass-throughs and multiple connections, but this was a ceiling mounted rose/lampholder with nothing more than two connections, so I ran everything to a junction box I fitted in the loft.

Without a dad - I looked this up in the Library at that age. (Actually different colours then)

I was taught how to wire a plug at school, now though every plug has to be moulded, something to do with safety regulations introduced by the government. You used to be able to buy replacement plugs from Supermarkets but that is no longer the case, they just stock shaver 2 pin to 3 pin now, so small hardware shops is the place to go, mind you the one near us in the town center has gone and the other closest is literally at Stanley which would mean getting there and back making said plug more expensive!

Now when something electrical is completely dead if it has a proper plug on it I cut it off before disposing and it goes in the drawerr, handy things to have, especially if I am wanting to keep all my old computers correct with their plugs etc.

Earlier this week I replaced the light switches in the front room as the dimmers had failed, wiring was slightly different but reading the sheet that came with the new ones was easy enough to follow and that was using pre 2004 wiring (Red, Black & Yellow), I removed the strip light from mine and wifes bedroom pairing off the outer 2 red cables and then wiring in a spot light bar, then did the same in sons room and finally replaced switches in dining room.

I think DIY is dropping off a bit with a lot of younger folks, me personally love doing it, especially if it is something new and watching a few vids and reading up before starting. To do the jobs I done there would have cost around £150 labor from a certified sparky.

Fond memories of the click as the circuit breaker told me that I'd wired the Bathroom extractor/light wrong again.

Much the same as Ferral, I did a similar job a few months back. Similarly, dimmer switches were causing concern. One, an elderly two-gang dimmer controlled two lounge light fittings, but my metered electricity usage was actually lower with the lights on, at about 15-20% power, than when off completely. I'm still a bit confuzzled about that.

So .... replace old CFL bulb with remote-controlled (wifi) dimmable LED bulbs and the dimmer switch with a plain, double-gang on/off and not only did the problem go away, but the (not cheap) LED bulbs use a lot less power than even the CFLs did. They're colour-temp adjustable (by remote) too.

Of course, now the lounge light switches don't match the rest, so I replaced the rest too, which was simple except for the two-way upstairs/downstairs because, again similar to Ferral, colour schemes were different. More that that, the genius "sparky" that wired them DID NOT follow colour conventions at all. He has just used what bits of wire he had laying around. So it took a bit of testing, some notes, and a bit of noggin-scratching, to figure out what he'd used for perm-live, switched live, neutral and even on one occasion, earth.

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Originally Posted by Saracen

One, an elderly two-gang dimmer controlled two lounge light fittings, but my metered electricity usage was actually lower with the lights on, at about 15-20% power, than when off completely. I'm still a bit confuzzled about that.

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My first thought is something to do with balancing the capacitive/inductive load (True, Reactive, Apparent power), but then I wouldn't have thought lights would make that much difference.

One thing I did notice with my junction that I mentioned above was the that one of the permanent live wires was actually blue, but with some brown sleeving around it.

funny my dad showed me years ago how do this got it at school too changed a fridge @ mum and dads just other week had to remove the fitted plug... and wire up a unfitted one dad did it but made me check it before he closed it up :)

Do they still come with the card showing you exactly how to wire them up?

I've no problems doing this or a variety of other appliance based tasks, but completely agree about simple DIY skills - mine are almost non-existent! Generally, if I can see the screws/bolts etc. I can figure it out, but I'm completely lost at sea in a number of tasks where they're not so visible or you have to get the right part as two recent examples showed up:

1) Toilet problems - had a problem with the flushing unit, which is easy to diagnose and find replacement parts for. But then the button for the flush (pneumatic link) broke and is that a standard one? No. I can understand the mechanism, ordered what *looked* very much like a the right replacement part, but part of it is too thick and fouls the mechanism. Still working out how I might bodge it, otherwise it's a whole new pneumatic system just to get the right button :(

2) Door handles! Recently pulled one off one of those multi-bolt PVC type doors. I haven't got a clue how to fix it - I'm used to door handles that have grub screws or similar to attach, none of which are visible for these kind of doors, it seems to be some kind of one-way washer type things.

I know some villages have hobby clubs for young and old to mix and share skills/help each other, but round here it's mostly commuters who I guess would pay other people to fix it, so I've not found such a club.

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Originally Posted by Gerrard

My first thought is something to do with balancing the capacitive/inductive load (True, Reactive, Apparent power), but then I wouldn't have thought lights would make that much difference.

One thing I did notice with my junction that I mentioned above was the that one of the permanent live wires was actually blue, but with some brown sleeving around it.

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The reactive component won't register on the meter.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Do they still come with the card showing you exactly how to wire them up?

I've no problems doing this or a variety of other appliance based tasks, but completely agree about simple DIY skills - mine are almost non-existent! Generally, if I can see the screws/bolts etc. I can figure it out, but I'm completely lost at sea in a number of tasks where they're not so visible or you have to get the right part as two recent examples showed up:

1) Toilet problems - had a problem with the flushing unit, which is easy to diagnose and find replacement parts for. But then the button for the flush (pneumatic link) broke and is that a standard one? No. I can understand the mechanism, ordered what *looked* very much like a the right replacement part, but part of it is too thick and fouls the mechanism. Still working out how I might bodge it, otherwise it's a whole new pneumatic system just to get the right button :(

2) Door handles! Recently pulled one off one of those multi-bolt PVC type doors. I haven't got a clue how to fix it - I'm used to door handles that have grub screws or similar to attach, none of which are visible for these kind of doors, it seems to be some kind of one-way washer type things.

I know some villages have hobby clubs for young and old to mix and share skills/help each other, but round here it's mostly commuters who I guess would pay other people to fix it, so I've not found such a club.

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Thank you ! Exactly my experience as well.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Do they still come with the card showing you exactly how to wire them up?

I've no problems doing this or a variety of other appliance based tasks, but completely agree about simple DIY skills - mine are almost non-existent! Generally, if I can see the screws/bolts etc. I can figure it out, but I'm completely lost at sea in a number of tasks where they're not so visible or you have to get the right part as two recent examples showed up:

1) Toilet problems - had a problem with the flushing unit, which is easy to diagnose and find replacement parts for. But then the button for the flush (pneumatic link) broke and is that a standard one? No. I can understand the mechanism, ordered what *looked* very much like a the right replacement part, but part of it is too thick and fouls the mechanism. Still working out how I might bodge it, otherwise it's a whole new pneumatic system just to get the right button :(

2) Door handles! Recently pulled one off one of those multi-bolt PVC type doors. I haven't got a clue how to fix it - I'm used to door handles that have grub screws or similar to attach, none of which are visible for these kind of doors, it seems to be some kind of one-way washer type things.

I know some villages have hobby clubs for young and old to mix and share skills/help each other, but round here it's mostly commuters who I guess would pay other people to fix it, so I've not found such a club.

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Most of the ones I've seen are blind bolts, so the inside has screws that clamp through the door to the outside.

It isn't just basic DIY skills... I was talking about growing tomatoes with one of the lads I play WoW with and someone else asked "what's compost?"

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Originally Posted by SeriousSam

It isn't just basic DIY skills... I was talking about growing tomatoes with one of the lads I play WoW with and someone else asked "what's compost?"

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Seriously??

And that's no pun on your forum name, Sam.

What is the world coming to?

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Originally Posted by peterb

I had to make up a specific cable extension yesterday, which involved putting three pin plug on a cable. Wiring a three pin plug is something I've done scores of times, but not for a while with the introduction of mounded cable sets.

It used to a rite of passage for (mainly) sons learning from their Dads - I was about 8 or 9 when my Dad showed me, but I wonder if it is now a lost art or considered "too dangerous" for other than electrician to do?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/staticarchive/7...46781134de.gif

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excellent subject

I was shown by my Dad... and he also taught me to have a certain amount of slack, and how to strip the cable.. and how to bend the copper core in advance of slipping it into the plug connectors, because so many cables are so stiff and the copper is tough to make it fit AND get the case back on.

I practiced a LOT, with cables not connected to hardware...

BUT... this is where my Dad was clever... he then removed EVERY plug from my practices and stored them separately from the practice cables.

Years later..... I had cut a load of cables from old devices with a few feet of cable to store spare plugs... and in a flash of inspiration realised that if they were plugged in... the exposed ends would be deadly.

Where are the black and red wires?

I'm confused!

Black and Red wiring is Pre 2004 as that is when regulation came in as to the color coding.

Red - Live
Black - Neutral
Yellow - Earth

Old houses will still have this (like ours) in places if never rewired.

It was actually way before that! The colours for appliance wiring (that is the bit that goes to the plug) changed with the publication of the 14th edition of the wiring regulations in 1970, to harmonise with Europe.

The colours up to then were red, black and green, and changed to Brown, Blue and red/yellow stripe.

At the time, the thee phase colour scheme was red, yellow and blue, with black for neutral/ star point, so there was some harmonisation with the pre-1970 colour codes. It was considered too confusing/dangerous to change the three phase wiring standard at the same time.

In 2004, the three past colour codes changed to Brown, black and grey, with blue for the neutral, or star point in star connected 3 phase system - so again bringing it back into some form of harmonisation, again in line with Europe, although the three phase colours are not standard, and good practice recommends labelling the cables as L1, L2 and L3.

(Three phase systems that are connected as a delta layout do not have a neutral point, but are usually reserved for high voltage distribution systems. 440V distributions are star connected giving 240 volts phase to neutral, or 440V phase to phase.

Many moons ago, my mate posited that as it was alternating current you should be able to swap the brown and blue wires around and it should still work. He tested it on his hifi and it worked. The obvious problem with doing that though is that the live current is no longer fused. I hate (and have no patience for) any form of DIY, but even I can wire up a plug!

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Still working out how I might bodge it, otherwise it's a whole new pneumatic system just to get the right button :(

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Sounds like an ideal excuse^H^H^H^H^H^Huse for buying a 3D printer ;)

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Originally Posted by b0redom

Many moons ago, my mate posited that as it was alternating current you should be able to swap the brown and blue wires around and it should still work. He tested it on his hifi and it worked. The obvious problem with doing that though is that the live current is no longer fused. I hate (and have no patience for) any form of DIY, but even I can wire up a plug!

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Ouch - he was lucky as earth and neutral are (or should be) connected together, so it should have blown the fuse - unless the amplifier was double insulated and didn't need an earth ground connection.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Do they still come with the card showing you exactly how to wire them up?

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Not always, so I have one stashed away in the toolbox. I always like to double check, no matter how recently I've had something apart!

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Do they still come with the card showing you exactly how to wire them up?

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Nah, is easy stuff - bLue goes Left, bRown goes Right, the yellow one can then only go to the top.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

I know some villages have hobby clubs for young and old to mix and share skills/help each other, but round here it's mostly commuters who I guess would pay other people to fix it, so I've not found such a club.

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Do you not have something like a HackSpace group, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by jim

I only recently discovered that it was typical in the UK at one point to sell devices without the plug on the end.

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I grew up with that!
Then again, it wasn't so long ago that I realised cars no longer have a manual choke, either!

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Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster

Nah, is easy stuff - bLue goes Left, bRown goes Right, the yellow one can then only go to the top.

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Nah, Brown to yellow and Blue to bits :mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by peterb

Ouch - he was luck as earth and neutral are (or should be) connected together, so it should have blown the fuse - unless the amplifier was double insulated and didn't need an earth ground connection.

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Erm, I would hate to see a neutral connected to earth largely because of the possibility that a socket or plug might be mis-wired in an old fuse protected house.

In a more modern wiring setup, I would have expected the residual current breaker to trip if it sees an earth-neutral short.

Edit: ISTR it was quite common to earth the centre tap of the output of the mains transformer as part of connecting an amplifier chassis to earth for protection, isolated from the mains input.

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Originally Posted by Spreadie

Nah, Brown to yellow and Blue to bits :mrgreen:

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I used to mutter things like "Brown to E because that's exciting" when wiring plugs. Occasionally gets people looking worried :D

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Originally Posted by Hoonigan

Where are the black and red wires?

I'm confused!

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This seems to have been taken seriously.

I can wire a plug, honestly.

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

Erm, I would hate to see a neutral connected to earth largely because of the possibility that a socket or plug might be mis-wired in an old fuse protected house.

In a more modern wiring setup, I would have expected the residual current breaker to trip if it sees an earth-neutral short.

Edit: ISTR it was quite common to earth the centre tap of the output of the mains transformer as part of connecting an amplifier chassis to earth for protection, isolated from the mains input.



I used to mutter things like "Brown to E because that's exciting" when wiring plugs. Occasionally gets people looking worried :D

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Earth and neutral are bonded together all the way from the substation, and broken out into three wires at the consumer unit.

http://www.arca53.dsl.pipex.com/index_files/elect4.htm

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Originally Posted by Hoonigan

This seems to have been taken seriously.

I can wire a plug, honestly.

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I take everything you say seriously :)

(And more importantly, anything to do with high energy electrical circuits)

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Originally Posted by Hoonigan

This seems to have been taken seriously.

I can wire a plug, honestly.

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I thought you mean in a PC ;)

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Originally Posted by peterb

The colours up to then were red, black and green, and changed to Brown, Blue and red/yellow stripe.

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The colour standards for electrical stuff is just weird. Why make live earth coloured and change neutral into a non-neutral colour?

And then there's the reversal of green and red for breaker boxes. Everything else in live has green as on and red as off, but breakers are now the opposite way around.

You wonder how all these changes got past the user experience tests.

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Originally Posted by peterb

Earth and neutral are bonded together all the way from the substation, and broken out into three wires at the consumer unit.

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I can't remember the theory of how it is supposed to be wired up, those lectures are a long time ago. I do remember the principal of assuming the wiring is borked when designing something, because often it will be :)

I have certainly re-wired a few plugs in my time which were wired up backwards to no apparent ill effect, but it isn't something I could leave having seen it.

I also know someone who touched an electrical item and a radiator at the same time and ended up on the floor (thankfully still alive). You would hope that stuff in a hotel would be better tested and maintained than that!

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Originally Posted by EndlessWaves

You wonder how all these changes got past the user experience tests.

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Red/green colour blindness is quite common, the colours just have to be distinct to everyone.

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Originally Posted by EndlessWaves

You wonder how all these changes got past the user experience tests.

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the users died .. .getting it wrong.

so no one was there to complain ;)

a plug you say? Yeah heard about those once. Nah seriously we were taught it at school in the 90s. Plus dad would have disowned me if I hadn't tackled it myself. DIY all the way for my family. These new wiring regs are a PITA. My wife won't let me do our house. :(

Isn't youtube what teaches people things these days?