Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

Lo people

Since I moved into a new house a few weeks ago, it's been clear the water use is too high.

I took a water meter reading on day one, and then a water company bloke took one two weeks later and my house has literally poured water down the drain.

Bearing in mind all water bill usage, equates to an identical waste water volume reading/ useage reading, so while waste water use is a cheaper rate, still...using a lot of water costs you twice.

The water meter fitted in the driveway is notably new.... it looks new and the reading is very low. Perhaps the previous owner complained of a leak? Perhaps the water bills were so high the meter was changed as a precaution.
It's things like this you can't easily check when you buy a house.

Luckily a bloke like me knows exactly my annual use from the previous house and with a similar size, same occupants, and not watering the garden as it's Oct/Nov, the first bill after only 3 weeks was like a nuclear explosion in my house.

And what it all boils down too is the stupid modern toilet cistern flushing systems, that are quieter and smaller allowing smaller cisterns, (but which wear out, in my experience, in about 4 years) Long gone are the old flush systems, with huge pluger levels and mammoth washers holding back the tide of the flush ...... now we have the ridiculous little plastic diaphram'd cistern systems.

In my old house I changed them all at least twice in 12 years.

Test 1 - after your toilet hasn't been flushed for an hour, take a piece of toilet tissue, fold it into 1/4's so it's rigid, and hold it on the back of the toilet bowl at the top, about 5 cm below the rim.
It should only pick up the dampness from any residual water. If it drenches, and if another piece of toilet tissue drenches, you have water pouring down the back of the toilet constantly. We don't have "over flows" any more, that pour out into the garden via a pipe. We have water invisible trickling down the bog. It's noticable as a chalk build up in hard water areas too.


Test 2: With the cistern full, string the ball cock that stops water coming in, up tight. So no water can can fill the tank.

Then time to see how long it takes to empty.

In my case, it was 7 minutes.

7 minutes to drain about 4 litres of water.......

go figure the water bill. That's over 800 litres per DAY ... doing nothing.

I had them all changed yesterday, and now the water meter needs not spin like a helicopter under the driveway.....

Is your new house already falling apart?? :p

Edit!!

Had the same issue in a flat I was renting - it seems it was simply down to one seal,and over time it gets waterlogged(it was made of two parts,and water can get trapped in it) leading to it not sealing properly,and water trickled into the bowl.

Unlike an old fashioned toilet,it looked far more elaborate inside,and all for using a push button. Apparently people are too weak to push a handle nowadays! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

Is your new house already falling apart?? :p

Edit!!

Had the same issue in a flat I was renting - it seems it was simply down to one seal,and over time it gets waterlogged(it was made of two parts,and water can get trapped in it) leading to it not sealing properly,and water trickled into the bowl.

Unlike an old fashioned toilet,it looked far more elaborate inside,and all for using a push button. Apparently people are too weak to push a handle nowadays! ;)

---

that is exactly right....I have spent over £800 on plumbing to get it to the right place. All from bad installs, idiotic previous use and a lack of common sense

Pulling a handle is SOOOOOO 1983, so now you need a sliver button.

In theory the button has a small flush and a full flush, and they do work a bit... but most people flush full anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

that is exactly right....I have spent over £800 on plumbing to get it to the right place. All from bad installs, idiotic previous use and a lack of common sense

Pulling a handle is SOOOOOO 1983, so now you need a sliver button.

In theory the button has a small flush and a full flush, and they do work a bit... but most people flush full anyway.

---

Built in obsolescence you see!! ;) I dislike the button based ones,as its a case of over-engineering something very simple. The spare parts,the fact they break more often and added complexity in theory does add to their environmental footprint anyway,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

Pulling a handle is SOOOOOO 1983, so now you need a sliver button.

---

Ours has a silver button.... and the house was built in 1863!!

I have a push button downstairs and a "flapper" valve upstairs, a bit of silicone got stuck in the flapper which resulted in the cistern topping itself up every minute or so. Embarassing that it took me a good while to figure it out..

I keep getting pestered about having a water meter fitted, but I pay about £40/month for an unmetered supply so I'll hold out as long as I can, even though there's only 2 of us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by virtuo

I have a push button downstairs and a "flapper" valve upstairs, a bit of silicone got stuck in the flapper which resulted in the cistern topping itself up every minute or so. Embarassing that it took me a good while to figure it out..

I keep getting pestered about having a water meter fitted, but I pay about £40/month for an unmetered supply so I'll hold out as long as I can, even though there's only 2 of us.

---

I will not pay that much on a meter now it's solved.

For context - 4 bed house, 3 occupants, 3 toilets, seriously no restrictions on baths, showers..... and watering of a sizable garden weekly all summer long.

£31 per month for the last 4 years. Spot on use.

Meters are worth having, unless you are an horrific water user... which few people are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

Meters are worth having, unless you are an horrific water user... which few people are.

---

I like to think that I can be that horrific inconsiderate user if I want to be though, it's the "once you've got a meter you can't get rid of it" thought that puts me off.

I thought the major benefit of the "overflow into bowl" idea was not having to have a separate plumbed-into-waste overflow pipe on the cistern. I've removed several of those and it tidied up bathrooms and loos esch time.

You do have to watch for overflows, though. It's part of my quarterly maintenance run (lubricate window slide rails, door locks, grease door bolts, etc. And, the cisterns, J just keep my eyes open.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by virtuo

I like to think that I can be that horrific inconsiderate user if I want to be though, it's the "once you've got a meter you can't get rid of it" thought that puts me off.

---

Yes, and that's what everyone else liked to think.... until they were short by 130 million litres of water per day in London alone. That and seeing how much money they were saving with a Smartmeter led to enough customers demanding the switch and now it's being rolled out to everyone.

Beforehand, there was a grace period (1 year, I think) where you could change back if you didn't like the metered service. Hardly anyone did, so it has become compulsory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saracen

I thought the major benefit of the "overflow into bowl" idea was not having to have a separate plumbed-into-waste overflow pipe on the cistern.

---

it is... but it also is invisible to the average person, as its a clear, fresh, silent trickle of money going down the bog..... where the old ones were a visible pouring of water out of a pipe into the garden.. easier to spot ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saracen

It's part of my quarterly maintenance run (lubricate window slide rails, door locks, grease door bolts, etc.)

---

I can't even imagine being this organised, never mind actually getting around to doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoonigan

I can't even imagine being this organised, never mind actually getting around to doing it.

---

why on earth not?

its no different to having the car serviced, having the central heating serviced, cleaning the wheelie bins, emptying the gutters, checking the ball cocks in the loft (just had all new fitted), reviewing the utility bill suppliers, house insurance etc.

I'm amused by those buttons every time I visit the UK. At least your toilets work, unlike the US.

Seals are a replaceable item. Plan to change them every year, and you'll save hundreds!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

why on earth not?
its no different to having the car serviced, having the central heating serviced, cleaning the wheelie bins, emptying the gutters, checking the ball cocks in the loft (just had all new fitted), reviewing the utility bill suppliers, house insurance etc.

---

As far as the car service goes - You do recall I work* for a friend whose income and workload are almost entirely from people who don't look after their own cars, right?
I think it'd be safe to say most people take a similar approach to that other stuff.



*Work is a strong word... I go round there for a cup of tea, get dragged into lending a hand and end up being paid in pizza, burgers/kebabs, tools, computer components and the occasional car.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TeePee

I'm amused by those buttons every time I visit the UK. At least your toilets work, unlike the US.

Seals are a replaceable item. Plan to change them every year, and you'll save hundreds!

---

you cant change seals in these units... there is a tiny little diaphram that weakens... and then it all stops working. Utterly stupid!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

why on earth not?

its no different to having the car serviced, having the central heating serviced, cleaning the wheelie bins, emptying the gutters, checking the ball cocks in the loft (just had all new fitted), reviewing the utility bill suppliers, house insurance etc.

---

Yeah, but quarterly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster

As far as the car service goes - You do recall I work* for a friend whose income and workload are almost entirely from people who don't look after their own cars, right?
I think it'd be safe to say most people take a similar approach to that other stuff.

---

you have, therefore already answered your own doubts... you too should start maintaining stuff properly :) cos you see what occurs when other people ....don't

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoonigan

Yeah, but quarterly?

---

curtain poles, window hinges, door hinges, particualry the garage doors, locks... at least quarterly.

The gates in the garden get more ...

to be fair I don't do the gutter that often...so I strike that off the quarterly list ;)

And replace it with a hundred other things....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

you have, therefore already answered your own doubts... you too should start maintaining stuff properly :) cos you see what occurs when other people ....don't

---

I do.
You asked why not... That was my answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by virtuo

I like to think that I can be that horrific inconsiderate user if I want to be though, it's the "once you've got a meter you can't get rid of it" thought that puts me off.

---

I was much the same. Last house didn't have a meter, and as I was certain our water usage meant we would pay more on a meter (young kids at the time, constant cloths washing and baths) so told them no when asked about having one fitted.

When I moved to the current house it already had a meter, but the kids are older and our water usage has gone down so we are probably better off. The thing is, having a meter drives home just how cheap water is. Filling buckets and even swimming pools with water is fine, the problem as in here was when we got a leak. I estimated the leak from our service pipe was dumping about a bathtub full of water every 4 hours into the ground, long term I hate to think what that would have done to the foundations of our house. The bill that quarter (thankfully cancelled by the water company) was for £8000.

We don't need smart meters, we need smart leak management in the network.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

We don't need smart meters, we need smart leak management in the network.

---

As part of our work in sewers, we often discover evidence of water leaks. However, it's quite difficult and quite expensive to actually locate the point of a leak... and despite all the electronic monitoring devices, the best solution is still digging the whole thing up until you find it, which is nigh-on impossible in many places.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoonigan

Yeah, but quarterly?

---

I didn't used to be either, but a few expensive and probably unnecessary repair bills motivated me properly.

So I developed a sophisticated time-managenent routine. It works thus -

- stage 1 - bug a £1 annual diary.
- stage 2 - buy a red marker pen.
- stage 3 - put a red mark on 4 Saturdays, 3 months apart, jn the year planner bit
- on red mark days, spend 30-60 minutes on maintenance.

I find little and often works best.

UPDATE:

With new cistern flush systems fitted, I was still using more water than I thought acceptable. Taking daily (with a torch in my teeth) water meter readings, it was still using more than I expected.

While I was doing this , the meter suddenly started whirling round and stopped after about 11 litres, then spun a bit more. An odd amount.. maybe my boy had started running a bath, and then stopped.

Back indoors I asked my missus and the only water use was a single flush of the downstairs toilet.

11 litres? I checked the downsairs cistern, lid off and saw marking along the back of it, cast into the porcelain. The water level was stopping at 9 litres. That's a bloody big flush, I'd not realy looked at it but it is a big tank....but 9 is not 11, and clearly hands had been washed.... so I decided to re-adjust the ball cock float to lower it to 6 litres, and then I flushed again to check it.

That's when I discovered that this toilet fills from mains water (not loft tank) and the water pressure is IMMENSE...so immense that it could easily re-fill an extra 2 litres while emptying. In fact I held the flush button down as an experiment and it coul dprolly use 14 or 15 litres before being empty .

So... both the toilet upstairs flooding down the back of the bowl from a worn system and this downstair toilet filling faster than Niagra Falls with a volume slightly short of the North Sea.... it all makes sense.

Now.. water use is right back down to an average of about 1/3 Cubic metre per day, rather than well over 1 cubic metre per day.

Bloody long slog though... slog to mend the bog.

Makes you wonder how many people's water bills are mental high for silly reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zak33

Now.. water use is right back down to an average of about 1/3 Cubic metre per day, rather than well over 1 cubic metre per day.

---

Mine is less than 2m3 per month! Half of my bill is the daily cost and the other the actual usage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Mine is less than 2m3 per month! Half of my bill is the daily cost and the other the actual usage.

---

you need to bath more ;)


Mine's spot on at this level now. It fluctuates according to shower or bath, and who's home or at work.

There's a good online calculator

https://www.ccwater.org.uk/watermetercalculator/

It works pretty well