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Thread: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Lo people

    Since I moved into a new house a few weeks ago, it's been clear the water use is too high.

    I took a water meter reading on day one, and then a water company bloke took one two weeks later and my house has literally poured water down the drain.

    Bearing in mind all water bill usage, equates to an identical waste water volume reading/ useage reading, so while waste water use is a cheaper rate, still...using a lot of water costs you twice.

    The water meter fitted in the driveway is notably new.... it looks new and the reading is very low. Perhaps the previous owner complained of a leak? Perhaps the water bills were so high the meter was changed as a precaution.
    It's things like this you can't easily check when you buy a house.

    Luckily a bloke like me knows exactly my annual use from the previous house and with a similar size, same occupants, and not watering the garden as it's Oct/Nov, the first bill after only 3 weeks was like a nuclear explosion in my house.

    And what it all boils down too is the stupid modern toilet cistern flushing systems, that are quieter and smaller allowing smaller cisterns, (but which wear out, in my experience, in about 4 years) Long gone are the old flush systems, with huge pluger levels and mammoth washers holding back the tide of the flush ...... now we have the ridiculous little plastic diaphram'd cistern systems.

    In my old house I changed them all at least twice in 12 years.

    Test 1 - after your toilet hasn't been flushed for an hour, take a piece of toilet tissue, fold it into 1/4's so it's rigid, and hold it on the back of the toilet bowl at the top, about 5 cm below the rim.
    It should only pick up the dampness from any residual water. If it drenches, and if another piece of toilet tissue drenches, you have water pouring down the back of the toilet constantly. We don't have "over flows" any more, that pour out into the garden via a pipe. We have water invisible trickling down the bog. It's noticable as a chalk build up in hard water areas too.


    Test 2: With the cistern full, string the ball cock that stops water coming in, up tight. So no water can can fill the tank.

    Then time to see how long it takes to empty.

    In my case, it was 7 minutes.

    7 minutes to drain about 4 litres of water.......

    go figure the water bill. That's over 800 litres per DAY ... doing nothing.

    I had them all changed yesterday, and now the water meter needs not spin like a helicopter under the driveway.....
    Last edited by Zak33; 09-11-2017 at 12:07 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Bows out! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Is your new house already falling apart??

    Edit!!

    Had the same issue in a flat I was renting - it seems it was simply down to one seal,and over time it gets waterlogged(it was made of two parts,and water can get trapped in it) leading to it not sealing properly,and water trickled into the bowl.

    Unlike an old fashioned toilet,it looked far more elaborate inside,and all for using a push button. Apparently people are too weak to push a handle nowadays!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Is your new house already falling apart??

    Edit!!

    Had the same issue in a flat I was renting - it seems it was simply down to one seal,and over time it gets waterlogged(it was made of two parts,and water can get trapped in it) leading to it not sealing properly,and water trickled into the bowl.

    Unlike an old fashioned toilet,it looked far more elaborate inside,and all for using a push button. Apparently people are too weak to push a handle nowadays!
    that is exactly right....I have spent over £800 on plumbing to get it to the right place. All from bad installs, idiotic previous use and a lack of common sense

    Pulling a handle is SOOOOOO 1983, so now you need a sliver button.

    In theory the button has a small flush and a full flush, and they do work a bit... but most people flush full anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    that is exactly right....I have spent over £800 on plumbing to get it to the right place. All from bad installs, idiotic previous use and a lack of common sense

    Pulling a handle is SOOOOOO 1983, so now you need a sliver button.

    In theory the button has a small flush and a full flush, and they do work a bit... but most people flush full anyway.
    Built in obsolescence you see!! I dislike the button based ones,as its a case of over-engineering something very simple. The spare parts,the fact they break more often and added complexity in theory does add to their environmental footprint anyway,


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    Pulling a handle is SOOOOOO 1983, so now you need a sliver button.
    Ours has a silver button.... and the house was built in 1863!!

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    I have a push button downstairs and a "flapper" valve upstairs, a bit of silicone got stuck in the flapper which resulted in the cistern topping itself up every minute or so. Embarassing that it took me a good while to figure it out..

    I keep getting pestered about having a water meter fitted, but I pay about £40/month for an unmetered supply so I'll hold out as long as I can, even though there's only 2 of us.

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by virtuo View Post
    I have a push button downstairs and a "flapper" valve upstairs, a bit of silicone got stuck in the flapper which resulted in the cistern topping itself up every minute or so. Embarassing that it took me a good while to figure it out..

    I keep getting pestered about having a water meter fitted, but I pay about £40/month for an unmetered supply so I'll hold out as long as I can, even though there's only 2 of us.
    I will not pay that much on a meter now it's solved.

    For context - 4 bed house, 3 occupants, 3 toilets, seriously no restrictions on baths, showers..... and watering of a sizable garden weekly all summer long.

    £31 per month for the last 4 years. Spot on use.

    Meters are worth having, unless you are an horrific water user... which few people are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    Meters are worth having, unless you are an horrific water user... which few people are.
    I like to think that I can be that horrific inconsiderate user if I want to be though, it's the "once you've got a meter you can't get rid of it" thought that puts me off.

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    I thought the major benefit of the "overflow into bowl" idea was not having to have a separate plumbed-into-waste overflow pipe on the cistern. I've removed several of those and it tidied up bathrooms and loos esch time.

    You do have to watch for overflows, though. It's part of my quarterly maintenance run (lubricate window slide rails, door locks, grease door bolts, etc. And, the cisterns, J just keep my eyes open.

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by virtuo View Post
    I like to think that I can be that horrific inconsiderate user if I want to be though, it's the "once you've got a meter you can't get rid of it" thought that puts me off.
    Yes, and that's what everyone else liked to think.... until they were short by 130 million litres of water per day in London alone. That and seeing how much money they were saving with a Smartmeter led to enough customers demanding the switch and now it's being rolled out to everyone.

    Beforehand, there was a grace period (1 year, I think) where you could change back if you didn't like the metered service. Hardly anyone did, so it has become compulsory.

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I thought the major benefit of the "overflow into bowl" idea was not having to have a separate plumbed-into-waste overflow pipe on the cistern.
    it is... but it also is invisible to the average person, as its a clear, fresh, silent trickle of money going down the bog..... where the old ones were a visible pouring of water out of a pipe into the garden.. easier to spot ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    It's part of my quarterly maintenance run (lubricate window slide rails, door locks, grease door bolts, etc.)
    I can't even imagine being this organised, never mind actually getting around to doing it.

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonigan View Post
    I can't even imagine being this organised, never mind actually getting around to doing it.
    why on earth not?

    its no different to having the car serviced, having the central heating serviced, cleaning the wheelie bins, emptying the gutters, checking the ball cocks in the loft (just had all new fitted), reviewing the utility bill suppliers, house insurance etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    I'm amused by those buttons every time I visit the UK. At least your toilets work, unlike the US.

    Seals are a replaceable item. Plan to change them every year, and you'll save hundreds!

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    why on earth not?
    its no different to having the car serviced, having the central heating serviced, cleaning the wheelie bins, emptying the gutters, checking the ball cocks in the loft (just had all new fitted), reviewing the utility bill suppliers, house insurance etc.
    As far as the car service goes - You do recall I work* for a friend whose income and workload are almost entirely from people who don't look after their own cars, right?
    I think it'd be safe to say most people take a similar approach to that other stuff.



    *Work is a strong word... I go round there for a cup of tea, get dragged into lending a hand and end up being paid in pizza, burgers/kebabs, tools, computer components and the occasional car.

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    Re: Toilet Cistern overflowing into bowl

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    I'm amused by those buttons every time I visit the UK. At least your toilets work, unlike the US.

    Seals are a replaceable item. Plan to change them every year, and you'll save hundreds!

    you cant change seals in these units... there is a tiny little diaphram that weakens... and then it all stops working. Utterly stupid!

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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