Garage

[Butcher]

A flat roof is less likely to get planning permission as the planning department prefer pitched roofs. I've been having a read of their advice sheet and it seems like it should be reasonable from a planning perspective, especially if built in bricks to match the main property and with a pitched roof. One slight stumble might be due to the gable end facing the neighbours, though it's around 10 metres from their house and facing a side elevation utility room rather than the lounge windows or the like. I think though could be worked around with a hipped roof though obviously I'd rather have the additional space of gables. Main house is hipped though, so that might end up as a planning necessity.

Pic of plot below. Plan is to put the garage in the bottom corner, though the tree there might be an issue (I don't think it's as big as google maps makes it look).

[ik9000]

A flat roof is less likely to get planning permission as the planning department prefer pitched roofs. I've been having a read of their advice sheet and it seems like it should be reasonable from a planning perspective, especially if built in bricks to match the main property and with a pitched roof. One slight stumble might be due to the gable end facing the neighbours, though it's around 10 metres from their house and facing a side elevation utility room rather than the lounge windows or the like. I think though could be worked around with a hipped roof though obviously I'd rather have the additional space of gables. Main house is hipped though, so that might end up as a planning necessity.

Pic of plot below. Plan is to put the garage in the bottom corner, though the tree there might be an issue (I don't think it's as big as google maps makes it look).

can you find out what tree species it is - and the little ones on the left hand side of the image?

PM me your postcode, I'll see if I can find out anything about your ground condition from the online sources

NB a pitched roof can be a monopitch. It doesn't have to be a full duo-pitch/hipped style.

(Nice place btw.)

[Butcher]

I'm trying to arrange another viewing at the moment, if/when that happens I'll get some tree pics and better measurements so I'll know where things stand a little better.

I rather like it, it's a good sized house for two people and the garden is around 300 m² which is plenty of space for a garage and drive and still leaves ~200 m² of lawn. Especially once the old garage and lines of flags are removed.

[ik9000]

I'm trying to arrange another viewing at the moment, if/when that happens I'll get some tree pics and better measurements so I'll know where things stand a little better.

I rather like it, it's a good sized house for two people and the garden is around 300 m² which is plenty of space for a garage and drive and still leaves ~200 m² of lawn. Especially once the old garage and lines of flags are removed.

yeah, nice. Kind of going back on what I said before - if you are trying to get in through under PD then it could be one for a good quality timber man-cave shed from solid timber (not studwork frame). You can buy them off-peg or have them custom made to suit. I think the PD rules can favour those forms more than "permanent" brick out buildings, but it varies by council region and I'm not familiar with what goes in your neck of the woods.

If you're purchasing 5 checks I would make in addition to a full building survey:
i) ground geology - freely available in basic quality on the BGS website. Informs whether to worry about heave/subsidence, trees and the like, or whether sink holes/old mine works might be an issue
ii) flood risk - a) from rivers, reservoirs, b) from surface water and rainfall (used to be the EA website, think it moved to a new site recently)
iii) any tree protection orders (council)
iv) planning history and building regs history (council - for any existing extensions, loft conversions etc)
v) get a CCTV drain survey to confirm the drainage condition, and whether any of it is shared with neighbours - important to know now such runs are classed as public sewers, which gives companies rights to access your land.

[Butcher]

yeah, nice. Kind of going back on what I said before - if you are trying to get in through under PD then it could be one for a good quality timber man-cave shed from solid timber (not studwork frame). You can buy them off-peg or have them custom made to suit. I think the PD rules can favour those forms more than "permanent" brick out buildings, but it varies by council region and I'm not familiar with what goes in your neck of the woods.

AIUI if it's PD then materials aren't a large concern as long as it's not too jarring. Shed is less attractive as I want to be able to park cars in it and work on them, hence needing a decent concrete floor. Also gives a good place to lock the cars up when going on holiday and the like.

If you're purchasing 5 checks I would make in addition to a full building survey:
i) ground geology - freely available in basic quality on the BGS website. Informs whether to worry about heave/subsidence, trees and the like, or whether sink holes/old mine works might be an issue
ii) flood risk - a) from rivers, reservoirs, b) from surface water and rainfall (used to be the EA website, think it moved to a new site recently)
iii) any tree protection orders (council)
iv) planning history and building regs history (council - for any existing extensions, loft conversions etc)
v) get a CCTV drain survey to confirm the drainage condition, and whether any of it is shared with neighbours - important to know now such runs are classed as public sewers, which gives companies rights to access your land.

Had a look at the free stuff from BGS, nothing obvious shows up. Likely to be loam soil, fairly high water table (due to the Mersey). No historical mine workings. The site was a farm before it was built on, so not much contamination concern.
I've checked the flood maps, no concerns there. We're about 800m from the nearest watercourse (Bridgewater Canal) with no history of flooding in the area.
TPOs, planning etc. I have my solicitor looking into.
Drainage is a potential issue, the inspection chamber was blocked when the surveyor went round, so we've asked for that to be cleared before purchase as a minimum. Might look into a drain survey. Are 50s era drains likely to be shared or had they gone to private connections by then?

[ik9000]

AIUI if it's PD then materials aren't a large concern as long as it's not too jarring. Shed is less attractive as I want to be able to park cars in it and work on them, hence needing a decent concrete floor. Also gives a good place to lock the cars up when going on holiday and the like.



Had a look at the free stuff from BGS, nothing obvious shows up. Likely to be loam soil, fairly high water table (due to the Mersey). No historical mine workings. The site was a farm before it was built on, so not much contamination concern.
I've checked the flood maps, no concerns there. We're about 800m from the nearest watercourse (Bridgewater Canal) with no history of flooding in the area.
TPOs, planning etc. I have my solicitor looking into.
Drainage is a potential issue, the inspection chamber was blocked when the surveyor went round, so we've asked for that to be cleared before purchase as a minimum. Might look into a drain survey. Are 50s era drains likely to be shared or had they gone to private connections by then?

no hard and fast rules I'm afraid re drainage. Hence best to get it checked. It will also detect any cracks/leaks/collapses - which is better to know about while you can still get the money knocked off.

[ik9000]

Had a look at the free stuff from BGS, nothing obvious shows up. Likely to be loam soil, fairly high water table (due to the Mersey). No historical mine workings. The site was a farm before it was built on, so not much contamination concern.

superficial deposits: Glaciofluvial Sheet Deposits, Devensian - Sand And Gravel.
bedrock geology description: Wilmslow Sandstone Formation - Sandstone.
local boreholes in the next street (PM'd you a direct link) report there are sandy clays at the surface to reasonable depth (6m) - enough for tree roots to potentially be an issue, but impossible to say without knowing the moisture content and shrinkability of the clay, and tree species. Not trying to worry you unduly, that is not abnormal, and some clays near the surface would be the case for most of the UK but worth bearing in mind that the ground could be susceptible to subsidence in the right (or should that be wrong?) conditions. Ie suggest you consider the potential influence of trees when building the garage.

Do you have right of access to the passage way/track and yard behind the property? (Presume so given your intent to make it a drive-in garage)

[Butcher]

Do you have right of access to the passage way/track and yard behind the property? (Presume so given your intent to make it a drive-in garage)

That's undetermined so far, but on the list for my solicitor to find out. If not then the purchase isn't happening as it's a major reason for buying the property.

[Ttaskmaster]

I'd aim to save my money, and go bitumen-asphalt which while it does age, I know how long it will last and I can get pretty much anyone to change/repair it in future.

^ This.
The PO who built my current garage/workshop actually did a vaguely OK job, although he put the tacks right through the roof, resulting in some leaking.
I recently got up there and tarted up the roof with some bitumen paint and it's turned out rather nicely.

Are 50s era drains likely to be shared or had they gone to private connections by then?

Anything post-1936 that serves one peroperty is a private drain.
Under the Public Health Act 1936 all sewers coming within the definition of a sewer under the Public Health Act 1875 and which were in existence on 1 October 1937 became public. From 1937 onwards sewers were only public if they were laid or adopted by the sewerage undertaker (or its predecessors that exercised the same function).

However.....

Under the old regs, drains (private) became sewers (public) at the point where they left the curtilage of private property, regardless of how many other drains connected into the line.
Now, from the point your drain joins (or is joined by) the drain of another single property (this defininion varying, when it comes to types of flat), it becomes a public sewer.

Your local water utilities company should have details, but pretty much any of their websites will explain it in detail - It's part of the Water Industry Act of 1991, sections 102, 104 and 105A.

[ik9000]

^ This.
The PO who built my current garage/workshop actually did a vaguely OK job, although he put the tacks right through the roof, resulting in some leaking.
I recently got up there and tarted up the roof with some bitumen paint and it's turned out rather nicely.


Anything post-1936 that serves one peroperty is a private drain.
Under the Public Health Act 1936 all sewers coming within the definition of a sewer under the Public Health Act 1875 and which were in existence on 1 October 1937 became public. From 1937 onwards sewers were only public if they were laid or adopted by the sewerage undertaker (or its predecessors that exercised the same function).

However.....

Under the old regs, drains (private) became sewers (public) at the point where they left the curtilage of private property, regardless of how many other drains connected into the line.
Now, (currently) from the point your drain joins (or is joined by) the drain of another single property (this defininion varying, when it comes to types of flat), it becomes a public sewer.

Your local water utilities company should have details, but pretty much any of their websites will explain it in detail - It's part of the Water Industry Act of 1991, sections 102, 104 and 105A.

just to highlight the important bit - not that the rest isn't, but it took me a couple of reads and I'm familiar with it!

The more vulgar way of putting it: If the poo in the pipe only belongs to you, it's your drain and your responsibility. If the poo in the pipe is coming from different properties then it is a shared drain which is now considered a public sewer - so the water company has the responsibility to maintain it (and has rights to access land to do so)

[Butcher]

On the drainage point, drainage for garage roof (and drive), I was thinking of just dropping a soakaway (via some crates) in the middle of the lawn, likely to be a viable option?

[Saracen]

@ik9000 ....

Many thanks. Points all noted.

Re: checking contractor carefully. Absolutely. Always true, but I guess "with bells on" for this.

Re: Liquid pour or roll. I think the ones neighbours have are of the roll type, but ... I can't see any joins. I take the point too about there being cheap gabage available. From memory, that smallish area I described was about £4k maybe £4.5k, about 5 years ago. I take that to mean good quality.

Re: Ladder access. Good point. Very good point. And yes, that possibility does exist.

Thanks again. Sorry for mini-hijack of thread.

[ik9000]

On the drainage point, drainage for garage roof (and drive), I was thinking of just dropping a soakaway (via some crates) in the middle of the lawn, likely to be a viable option?

2 things.

1) it depends on the ground being suitable. Sandy clays.... probably not the most permeable top soil, but depends on how much sand is in there. The predominant case is clay (not very permeable - rubbish for soakaways). Deeper down you should hit sandy gravels which are better draining and more suitable. But you're having to dig deep to get there. For the amount of drainage you need, why build a soakaway? Just install a rainwater butt and use it to water the garden/wash the car.

2) soakaways have to be min 5m from any structure. You might struggle to fit them in once the garage is built.

[Butcher]

2 things.

1) it depends on the ground being suitable. Sandy clays.... probably not the most permeable top soil, but depends on how much sand is in there. The predominant case is clay (not very permeable - rubbish for soakaways). Deeper down you should hit sandy gravels which are better draining and more suitable. But you're having to dig deep to get there. For the amount of drainage you need, why build a soakaway? Just install a rainwater butt and use it to water the garden/wash the car.

I did consider a water butt, but that doesn't help for driveway drainage, and could easily overflow. Driveway as planned is about 50 m² which is a larger amount of drainage.

2) soakaways have to be min 5m from any structure. You might struggle to fit them in once the garage is built.

I need some proper measurements, but my rough plotting suggests there's plenty of space.

[ik9000]

I did consider a water butt, but that doesn't help for driveway drainage, and could easily overflow. Driveway as planned is about 50 m² which is a larger amount of drainage.



I need some proper measurements, but my rough plotting suggests there's plenty of space.

what's the total area of the garage and hardstanding (drive, paths etc) that you want to introduce vs the area of original grassed area?

When you're down there, look for any inspection chambers/ manhole covers in the garden, in the passageway/rear yard and to the front/side of the house. Note the locations.
You can also apply for water records for about £60 (depending on the company) that will show where sewers run (though not all adopted sewers will be on them). If you get lucky there may be a drain in that yard and some drainage you could explore connecting into (if the soakaway can't be made to work).

[Butcher]

what's the total area of the garage and hardstanding (drive, paths etc) that you want to introduce vs the area of original grassed area?

When you're down there, look for any inspection chambers/ manhole covers in the garden, in the passageway/rear yard and to the front/side of the house. Note the locations.
You can also apply for water records for about £60 (depending on the company) that will show where sewers run (though not all adopted sewers will be on them). If you get lucky there may be a drain in that yard and some drainage you could explore connecting into (if the soakaway can't be made to work).

Looking at around 40 m² for the garage roof plus 50 m² of driveway to the soakaway, and maybe 10 m² of footpath, but that would be allowed to drain to adjacent grass.

Garden is approximately 300 m² of lawn at the moment plus the tree and shrub borders.

Good tip on looking for inspection covers.