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Thread: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

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    Ghost of Hexus Present sammyc's Avatar
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    Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Hi all

    Am on my last-letter-before-small-claims-proceedings with a trader & just thought I'd ask around in here. Not as to whether I have a case, just a couple of points where any personal rather than legal advice welcome -

    Will change details of job in question to protect the guilty

    Let's say I had a wall built, botched job, trader very resistant to refunding. (There are reasons I ended up hiring bodgers but too long a story).

    All the trader has offered is rectify (can't be done, to a decent standard) or a 'good price' to redo it along with another length of wall that I did intend to have done at some point, not necessarily now. No chance of my going for that.

    So, no offer to discount, no offer to replace, in short, only to do something where he won't essentially be out of pocket. Also was slow to respond to complaint, unapologetic, grudging admission of issues, & attitude to boot.


    As the job is inarguably poor I don't have qualms about my case as such. There is one other option open whereby we could avoid court, which is to let him repay part of the cost in lieu by doing a separate, simple job (that I believe him to be capable of). Don't touch compromises with a bargepole/open a can of worms in your opinion, or avoid small claims wherever possible? I have no experience personally, this is my first/hopefully last slip-up in the hire an idiot dept.
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    You need evidence!

    Did you have a contract with him? Take photos, describe what you expected and what has happened. Keep a copy of all correspondence that you have sent/received to show that this really is last resort.

    What are you aiming to achieve? A refund + compensation, or for him to take remedial action? (I dont know if the SCC can order that - you might be better going for a refund and compensation (assuming you have paid for the work - have you?

    If you get to the court, you need to present a coherent case, describing the issue and the steps you have taken to resolve it - backed up by as much evidence that you can find.

    He may either not show (in which case you win by default) or dispute it, when you will both appear before the judge to present your cases. Its very informal.

    If he loses he could close his company/cease trading/declare bankruptcy.

    In that case you need legal advice, as your optionsare limited - you could take out a lien on any property her personallty owns, or become a creditor - along with any others.

    Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer of have any specific legal traing.
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Thank you, yes I have plenty of evidence of all faults & all my wagons are firmly in a circle paperwork/timing of events wise. It was word of mouth contract sadly.

    I am going for a total refund purely because the work will need to be redone - really no 2 ways about that (let's say hypothetically that the work was started in the wrong place, is not straight, that kind of thing. Nothing you could rectify in situ and get a decent result).

    I'm hoping he won't get far claiming he's made bona fide attempts to put things right, because even the fact he reckons it's rectifiable should give a poor impression of his idea of good standard of work. It clearly isn't. Likewise pitching for a larger job instead of offering to replace/discount. Nothing else he has done speaks of dealing with the complaint in a proper way (not replying to emails until pushed, quibbles, excuses etc - some verbal but even so, enough is on paper).

    Yes I did pay and no I'm not looking for compensation over & above (I could do, but meh). All I want is to start over & I would far rather not have him back on the property but I don't know at this stage if there is anything to said for trying to strike a part refund part small job in lieu deal. Which he may not even go for.

    He may cave at the last ditch when he knows I'm not bluffing re threatening court action but he's doing a good bluff himself if so.

    I don't think there's any chance he will go or can claim bankruptcy, from what I know (it's not a large amount of money).

    One other point - he very very unfortunately caused some minor damage to a neighbours' property, again is not really prepared to do anything other than a quick bodge to fix that, neighbour would like a small amount of compensation for that - is it my responsibility to claim for that if it does go to court? I would have thought he could put that through his public liability, if he has it, which I'd guess not.
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Dont know about third part liability. Technically he was your contractor, but I dont know if that makes you liable - I would think not (but IANAL) so it would be up to your neighbour to claim from him.
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Thanks, I have done a fair bit of reading up but even then was a bit hazy on that. At worst I'll sort that (neighbours' damage) for them as it's my fault in one sense or other (my workmen/their property) & we get on ok so either way it won't come to blows between us.

    As far as the main dispute goes I'm leaning towards final threat of court, hope he folds, keep any 3rd options such as part payment in lieu up my sleeve. I really, really do not want to actually start proceedings so fingers crossed he backs down; for the life of me I can't see what case he thinks he could put up, but who knows. :/
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    My experience of SCC says there are a couple of essential points to bolster your case :-

    1) As has been said, plenty of evidence
    2) At all times, and this is critical, be reasonable in what you expect, and do
    3) Be aware that winning is often the easy bit. The hard bit is often enforcemenyt.

    If he's a bodger, this is probably not his first time with the SCC threat, and it may not be his first actual case.

    But SCC is nothing to worry about. Very informal, usually a judge and a clerk, plsintiff and defendent around a desk in an office.

    Assuming he shows up. Lots of people don't.

    Assuming you win, can you enforce? Does he have assets? Even High Court bailiffs, good though they are, have limits in what they can do. Does he rent his house? Or is it in wife's name? Ditto cars, vans, etc. Does he have a history of founty court judgments? If so, outcome?

    Is it over enough to be worthvthe hassle, and further expense? Or is it better to chalk it up to experience, and move on?

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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Thanks very much Saracen. Part of me (most of me) says why should I chalk it up, and I'd also like to put him to some trouble, if nothing else. As far as his having done it before - I did consider whether to go to the extra expense/trouble of combing through his ccj history &c but I may find nowt at the end of it.

    He's an established trader, no real negative reviews, seems to have other satisfied customers etc etc - hence I didn't see it coming - all the signs were that he was not a bodger, who knows, I just got lucky and I'm 'the one'. (There are a few factors I won't go into that may explain some of it).

    He certainly has assets but again I can't be sure whether it's all out of reach or not (or go into it in detail on here).

    The key thing for me is why he is pushing it this near the wire when he must know that the quality of his work falls below consumer act regs (& I have plenty of photographic evidence - 'reasonable care & skill', it is not). So can't really see what he could say to counter that - I can just sit there & point & reiterate 'crap job'. 2 independent chaps have been round (& given the job 2 out of 10 in one case) - both agree you would have to start over to get anything of a result.

    If I send him this letter I can still make a sideways move & cook up a compromise instead but I feel he probably wouldn't go for it. I certainly don't want to come out of it with nothing however.

    The other thing is whether it would be referred to small claims mediation, which may or may not be much help. I don't know how far they would back loss of faith as good reason to not want him back under any circs to do any remedial work.
    Last edited by sammyc; 18-07-2019 at 10:40 PM.
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    I raised the "chalk it up" as an option. But I agree .... why the hell should you? There's no good answer to that, and I have taken the "Oh hell, no, I'm not letting you get away with that" route a coupke of times. One was over some £28, albeit about 25 years ago.

    Basically, and insurance company messed me about over a claim, trying to weasel out of this bit, then that bit, then "losing the file", and so on. And they dragged it out for months. Eventually, they agreed all the claim but as I'd paid for repairs by credit card, the £28 was the interest on the outstanding card balance aand that, they said, it's "policy" to not pay.

    Well, "shoemakers" to their policy. If they'd paid promtly instead of messing around for months, card interest would have been zero. And I was NOT about to let that £28 go, cone wgat may. No matter how inconvenient, no matter how much time and effort, I was by then out to prove a point. And when the claims person told me "it wasn't worth my time to fight it", that did it. If it's not worth it to me, it's not worth it to them. They sent a cheque in full and final settlement and I sent it back, torn up, with a letter ssying basically, "pay in full by <date 7 days from now> or I instruct my solicitor to county court claim (the whole claim value exceeded the then small claims track limit.

    I got a revised cheque, including that pesky £28, by return.

    It wasn't about the £28, by then. It was about me being bleeping angry, and determined to be a bleep right back at them, for every oenny, let alone every £28. I was actually rather hoping they'd "call my bluff" .... because I wasn't bluffing.

    So I understand standing your ground. But my reality is I could have ended with extra costs, a lot of hassle and wasted time and, despite having what my solicitor said was as close to a cast-iron certainty as he'd ever seen .... you never quite know, until the judgment is in.

    "Do you want the hassle", therefore, is a serious question to ask yourself. But if you answer "yes, on principle" .... well, been there, done that. So welcome to to the Stubborn Bleep Club, Sammy. Nice to meet a like-minded soul.

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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Stubborn, me? Oh yes

    Thank you for the inspirational anecdote

    There is certainly a large 'do it for the principle' element in my case, also a personal element (I would frankly sue him for just one of the things he said to me. Funny way of trying to smooth over a dispute.. mildly intimidating, I'd understand.. insulting your customer & getting their back up? - go figure).

    Sooo.. on reflection I'm going with send last-but-one letter, if no dice then last letter will *probably* include offer to compromise. That way I either get a sort of resolution without going to court & some cash back, or it's on record that I offered a decent compromise that was turned down. Can't see that doing him any favours at mediation/court.

    I don't really see him backing down as per your insurance co. - pretty sure he has no intention of handing over a penny, short of being forced. Otherwise he would have offered a discount, for example. I also know full well that the 'good price for larger job' pitch would, funnily enough, leave him not 1p out of pocket.

    Keep you posted.
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Good luck with it.

    If you do end up on the SCC road, just do all you can to verify that any ruling in your favour is likely to be enforceable, or all you do is throw good money after bad, with time, effort and stress added in for good measure.

    I look forward to chapter 2.
    Last edited by Saracen999; 21-07-2019 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Tpyo

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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Good luck with it.

    I look forward to chapter 2.
    Likewise!
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    Re: Your small claims experiences/ any handy hints

    Thanks v much indeed letter went off today. I can pass the time til something has to happen chasing up my disappearing roofing man before my roof becomes any more sieve-like. Home maintenance one ulcer at a time is apparently 2019's theme.
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