Looking into home CCTV

Hi folks,

Currently, we are looking at installing CCTV around our house. I would be keen on any help you might have.

Purpose:

• To keep an eye on the property while away and also act as a deterrent
• My inner geek likes tech :)
• If anything was to happen at the house, have video evidence which police could use.

For the cameras: We are thinking off:

1. 4-5 outdoor cameras
2. Motion sensing
3. Good quality nightvision
4. Good picture quality
5. Able to withstand scottish weather
6. Audio capability (to hear what is being recorded? - this isn't essential.

What we want from the system, overall:

• We want to be able to connect to the cameras via our mobile phones, computers etc and view live videos and stored videos.
• We would rather they were wired, as wireless (if my Ring is anything to go by) isn't the best and highly dependant on wifi signal, etc. So maybe PoE?
• We would need a storage device of some kind for these to record to. I have a Synology but you need to pay for licenses etc. So I would prefer to have a separate DVR/NVR or similar with maybe a WD Purple or similar in it. But I guess it is this device that would make my above requirements possible?

We would most likely get a professional to install the cameras.

I would be keen to hear people's advice.

Thank you!

A couple of quick thoughts.

Deterrent? Not so sure. As soon as those likely to be bothered see cameras, they'll cover faces.

Professional install? Good idea, but at a price. I assume the budget is decent.

Third - you tend to get what you pay for. I'm not a fan of mass-market 'home' devices. Lorex is decent (IMHO) without being stupid prices.

If you want poluce to be able to use footage as evidence, be careful what you buy, as the footage has to meet standards for evidential use. Even if it doesn't, it might still be useful for intelligence, and maybe to identify individuals but they'll need to get proof another way.

Consider stragetically located indoor cameras too, but I'd go for hidden, not deterrent, for indoors. And be sure of access security if you want to cloud-store or access remotely.

With my GDPR hat on:

You don't need any kind of policy, permission or signage if the cameras are purely for private use and only record your own property. This is easy to do with the video footage (just make sure the road/pavement/next doors garden is out of shot,) but if you're thinking of doing audio that is much harder to prevent. I'm not sure audio provides enough benefit to be worth the hassle anyway tbh.

Thanks for the replies.

The cameras will only be used on our property which is a detached house with a small private road access way at the front.

My budget is around £1000. But there seems to be an awful lot of choice and not many reviews (outside of the cloud devices like RIng/Arlo etc which I don't want).

I want to be able to access them anywhere but I do want the videos etc stored here on the premises. Not the cloud.

I do hope to add some indoor cameras later. I aim to start with 4-5 outdoor cameras. I will hope to add 2-3 indoor cameras at a later date.

Are you recording to some kind of PC/NAS device, or to a dedicated recorder? My preference for bigger installations is the latter.

If you're planning on adding later, make sure any sich recorder has sufficient channels. Sorry, that's a but obvious I guess. slightly less so is my preference is to not fully load a recorder. If you intend 4/5 now, plus 2/3 later, I'd be inclined to go one up from the 8-ch recorder that would just cope. It gives more scope for later.

Also, where possible and practical, I try to have one camera covering access to another, for each. Maybe, a couple in each location in rear-access propertues, one covering the back wsll, another pointed out into the gtounds. Or, better yet, too high up to be accessible. That's hard in, for instance, a bungalow. but either way, plan locations and coverage quite carefully. Avoid blindspots.

GDPR-wise, the advice I was given was that the line is a bit grey, not black and white. I am not an expert. Spacein might have better advice.

For instance, front cameras can incidentally cover public areas like footpaths/roads but should primarily cover your own property. There's no realistic expectation of privacy on public thoroughfares.

For cameras that mignt include some of your neighbours property, minimise it, but it's not entirely a no-no providing it is minimised and the coverage doesn't include personal areas. Covering mainly your rear or side garden, and a few feet wide strip of your neighbours, probably okay.

Cameras pointed in the direction of your neeighbours windows, especially bedroom windows, are an utter non-starter.

The best bet is to consult neighbours in advance, and get them onside, if possible. It's far better than letting them get steamed over what you might be doing, especially about that incidental coverage.

One thing I can definitely recommend is a Ring doorbell, if you don't already have such a thing. They also do a lot of other devices that I see get decent reviews but I can't vouch for them personally.

We got the 1st Gen. Ring doorbell about 3 months ago after about £3000 worth of kit that I returned to a manufacturer went "missing" with UPS, causing all kinds of problems. The quality is decent, the battery life is easily 40-50 days and if you can wire it in, even better, and they only charge £1.99 per month for their subscription fee which is optional.

The doorbell was £60 on one of Amazon's sale days, but you'll probably want to factor in another £20-£25 for their Ring Chime because it's not really useful as a doorbell otherwise.

On a side-note: Saracen999, were you a burglar in a previous life? :vacant:

I already have a Ring Pro at the front door. However, while I love it, I had to move my router to the front door to get decent enough signal in a rural area with little interference. I wouldn't want any of their cameras around my house. I imagine I'd then need a router per wall just to get good enough WiFi for it to work. Similarly, I want local storage.cloud is fine for my doorbell but for my home cctv I don't want to use cloud storage. At least not until upload speeds improve.

Have you done a risk assessment? How likely is an attack on your property? Have there been other attacks nearby? Are you known for being wealthy or is an attack likely to just be opportunistic?

Can you deter an attack with notices/ dummy cameras? Would you be better investing in better locks/physical deterrence?

Given attacks may be at night you may need some infra-red lighting and cameras which put the price up.

Have you spoken to your local crime prevention team for advice?

Thanks for the replies all.

In terms of storage: I have my Synology NAS. I am currently weighing up using it or a Hikvision NVR (For example). The Synology means I would already have the recording hardware. I'd just need to get some licences and another HDD. However, I am unsure which features I would miss out by using my Synology with Hikvision cameras, over a Hikvision NVR and Hikvision cameras.

I have already spoken to the neighbours and they are happy enough. We get on quite well. It is only really the right side of the house (where our neighbours are) that we could perhaps infringe on their land. The other parts of the house are all ours as we are at the end of the row.

I am also keen on cameras to overlap. Thank you for the advice so far all!

In terms of risk assessment @perterb. No we haven't. Part of this is for peace of mind SHOULD anything ever happen. The other reason is the geek in me just wants it....

There haven't been any attacks on our estate but further down from us is a bit rougher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoonigan

....

On a side-note: Saracen999, were you a burglar in a previous life? :vacant:

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LOL. No, just a few contacts, friends and family on the other side of the fence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neonplanet40

Thanks for the replies all.

In terms of risk assessment @perterb. No we haven't. Part of this is for peace of mind SHOULD anything ever happen. The other reason is the geek in me just wants it....

There haven't been any attacks on our estate but further down from us is a bit rougher.

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And they are perfectly good reasons in my book! :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterb

And they are perfectly good reasons in my book! :p

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Haha! :P

So currently I have the following list:
CCTV Buy list

D-Link 8-Port Gigabit PoE Smart Managed Switch DGS-1100-08P
Synology Surveillance Licence x2
4x Hikvision DS-2CD2385G1-I IP camera 8MP (still deciding on lenses)
DS-1273ZJ-140 - Bracket for cameras – x3
WD Purple 6TB


Now for external cable. Is there any kind of special exterior Cat5e cable I need for PoE etc?

There is an exterior grade cat5e cable available - has better UV resistance than ‘normal’ cable and well worth it unless you are running the cable in conduit.

https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/cat5e-...er-sheath.html

Outdoor grade cable

+1 for Hikvision cameras

Been recommended them by a few friends and family, just got our alarm system installed recently and next I'm getting Hikvision cameras installed externally with a 2TB DVR box.

Also if at any point you are looking for an alarm system (or anyone) I can recommend Verisure. Complete wireless kit and not tied to any contracts.

So, still researching this. Being quoted £500 for other companies to come and fit the cameras etc so seems like I could save money by doing it myself.

I have decided:

Cameras will be fitted to soffit around house. As such, I can wire them in through the roof space. As such, the cable won't be going outside so I am likely looking at Cat6 ethernet cabling.

What I need to know, however, is how do you cut and terminate your own ethernet cable? I've never done this before. What kind of equipment will I need to do it right? I have seen kits on cable money that was around £100. It seems a bit high... so thought I would ask on here.

Also, where do you recommend buying ladders? For me to reach my eaves I'll need a very tall ladder, which I don't currently have :D

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neonplanet40

.... so seems like I could save money by doing it myself

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Indeed you can, but ..... you knew there was one coming, didn't you.


We've just had a decorator in, for a bit over three weeks. Bear with me, there's a point.

I could have saved money by doing it myself. But :-

- it would have taken me a lot more than three weeks
- she knew what paints would work best where .... and where best to get them
- she had tools (rollers) and materials (types of masking tape, etc) I'd never heard of
- I learned a lot just by watching her technique
- she got an excellent finish I'd have struggled to match
- when a couple of issues arose she knew how to handle them. I didn't.
- she already had the right ladders, steps, etc
- in the event of catastrophe, she was fully insured.

Perhaps the single biggest difference was her sander. Now, I could have gone and bought the identical sander, a Festool unit, with dust extractor, but at a cost of about £800. That wasn't her only specialised tool, but the most obvious. I can't justify buying that mind of tool for occasional domestic use, but using any sander/extractor I've ever had would be nowhere near as effective at dust extraction. Which would mean much more time masking, sheeting and cleaning up. Every day.

And, of course, if I'd done it myself, that was 23 days of about 6 hours/day I couldn't be doing something else .... .like working, to pay for a professional to do it.

All told, it cost me about £15/hour (excluding paint), and that's not accounting for the cost of sanding sheets, frog tape, etc, which is included in that £15/hr. I can earn more than that working, and I reckon it would have taken me at least 50% longer than her, maybe even double the time, and probably got an inferior finish to boot,.

My point, and I'm sure you knew it anyway, is that sometimes, DIY to save money can be a false economy. Also, it was stress and effort-free.

Just sayin'. :D

Firstly do you need cat 6? If you are useing PoE you are using two cores for power and the will reduce the bandwidth straight off. PoE on cat 5 will also reduce BW to 100Mb/s which will be sufficient.

Tooling - if you are using sockets/patch panels you will need a punch down tool say £15-£20 pounds. Life will be a LOT simpler with a dedicated sheath stripper day £10. Tools for plugs vary enormously in price and quality. Expect to pay £25 to £50 for a decent one.

Have a look at Cablemonkey or CPC.

By the time you have bought that and a ladder (Screwfix or Toolstation) you might think that the commercial installation route might be worth another look.

Of course if you have other projects in mind where the tools are useful, it is an investment and a ladder is also useful.

BUT. LADDERS ARE DANGEROUS you can do yourself serious/life changing/lifethteatening/fatal injuries with a relatively small fall from a ladder. Working at height should not be undertaken lightly or alone.

+1 on Peter's ladder comments.

Mind you, a mate of mine worked up and down ladders for years, and not a scratch. Then, broke his ankle stepping off a chair while changing a light bulb in his own hallway. I might have teased him just a smidge about that.

:D

Cat 6 also has less flex and a far more restrictive bend radius which might make getting them into fiddly areas harder.

Thanks, everyone. I had only thought to use Cat6 in case I changed in the future and needed the higher bandwidth.

REgarding the DIY vs professional, I agree. I haven't decided either way yet. I just want to get an idea of the total cost and then decide. If the costs are similar then I may get the professional.

Although having a large ladder would be good for cleaning the cameras in the future of webs etc, also cleaning the gutters and cutting back the tree.

I agree with you about the other uses of a ladder, but you might want to consider a scaffolding tower. Much much safer and break down into relatively small pieces although probably take up a bit more space.

You can use it in a small form indoors (great for painting ceiling) as well as outdoors.

They cost more but they are an investment. Make sure it is aluminium though - for lightness.

This might be suitable (you obviously need to check heights)

https://www.scaffold-tower.co.uk/Min...olding_Towers/

Good for painting or mainting soffits - and of the height is OK, clearing gutters.

One other thing - you are up a ladder, two feet on the rungs, one hand holdin on the ladder for safety. That gives you one hand free to do the work.

And then you drop something - so back the ground and that might make you a bit grumpy - especially after the second time - and that’s when you might start to take risks like increasing the ladder angle and just standing on the rungs - and maybe the next thing to fall is ..,.

I don’t want to be alarmist, but accidents are rarely the result of on mistake - but regardless, the result is the same and was want to keep you safe. Safety has to be your priority.

And I’ll be honest - I’ve taken risks on ladders (in my youth) and luckily got away with it, but I now shudder to think what the consequence would have been if I hadn’t. I might have killed myself or ended up as a quadriplegic or paraplegic or broken bones or serious head injuries.

Thank you. I'll need to measure height but I'm thinking it's a good 8m height I'd be needing. The scaffold towers for that height are far out of my price range.

I will (if I go down DIY route) ensure I keep safe. Thanks for the recommendations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saracen999

+1 on Peter's ladder comments.

Mind you, a mate of mine worked up and down ladders for years, and not a scratch. Then, broke his ankle stepping off a chair while changing a light bulb in his own hallway. I might have teased him just a smidge about that.

:D

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+2 on the ladder comments if you want cameras 8m up my pea brain says to pay a professional.

I broke my ankle at the local late-night music spot last year. Dancing too hard and the wrong new shoes. Don't try and break in shoes clubbing folks!
Feel free to rib me for this in future.

Thanks for the interesting question. How much of a deterrent is a dummy camera going to be? How much would an alarm system cost for a 1 bed basement (of a house) flat say I do go for Verisure in the future.

links are the future folks. Berners Lee was spot on. I am really shocked that instagram is buggy on android and both the android and windows (web) twitter clients seem to lack proper ability to read a thread of comments. What has the world come to?

I recently found out that I too have dodgy neighbours so some diligence would be a good idea. Remember that big drugs ring bust in the news early last week? The 10 or so properties raided were in my Borough. Arrests local. Eek.

I do not have insurance and wouldn't know how to go about doing a risk assessment.

Funnily enough I've also been looking this.

We just got a puppy and I bought a reolink IP pan and tilt camera to keep an eye on her whilst we're out the room.

I'm not doing anything fancy with the footage at this point beyond viewing using the app, but the camera does have the ability to stream using RTSP, RTMP and ONVIF.
You can additionally back up to video to microSD and FTP shares

I've installed an motionEye docker to my unraid server but haven't had any luck as of yet with getting it to stream from the camera. I've not had much time to play with it at this point though, puppy play takes priority!

My future plan is to get an additional camera to cover the garden, and will probably stick with Reolink to keep in the same ecosystem.

In regards to installing your cameras on your soffits, if it's a 2+ story build (and it sounds like it is) you may want to consider the increased angle you'll get and how useful the top of someones head will be as well as the reduced pixel count across the face for identification due to the increased distance if they do indeed look up.

Mounting it lower (although still out of reach) may actually provide better results as well as being easier and safer to install. Cable management however is a different story, any you'll need to find some outdoor rated (there's probably a technical term) cable.

Food for thought

Good luck with your security endeavours

Thank you for the reply. Regarding the height impact on the cameras. I had hoped, going for the 8mp cameras I would still be able to zoom in and get good detail? I'm still hmming and haaing over 2.8mm or4mm lenses.