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Thread: Lean-to Bike Shed

  1. #33
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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed



    Yeah, I'm going to spreadsheet it up. The things I definitely need are a couple of batteries and an impact driver, the 'buy once' mentality is pushing me down the brushless route for that as well though! Everything else can wait for the next project, except the battery devouring 18V coffee machine...

  2. #34
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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbouk View Post
    I think my only big question left is how to attach the roof beams to the frames. Will have a flat piece of wood top and bottom but obviously a slope between. Back to YouTube and the internet I think!
    I imagine it would be rectangular timber plate laid flat on top of stud wall, bolted double timber trimmer beam along the wall face (if spanning unsupported ie not fixed to the wall). Rafters notched onto timbers at both ends with birdmouth joints (2/3 depth of rafter typically i.e. 2/3 timber remaining, 1/3 cut out. You can go to 50% max but for thinner timbers it's usually better to stay at 1/3, particularly the low end where you want the rafter to continue) and frame cramps/rafter cramps/truss clips to hold things in place. NB to nog the rafters to brace them and stop rotation. Rafters and roofing should oversail the walls to give rain protection. SFAIK roof finishes should lap over eaves board and membrane brought back under. (Think about where drips form/runoff goes).
    Last edited by ik9000; 13-05-2022 at 12:17 PM.

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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbouk View Post
    .... except the battery devouring 18V coffee machine...
    ROFLMAO. I really made a rod for my own back with that saga (or Sage), didn't I? The gift that keeps on giving. Serves me right.

    Despite my slightly less than totally serious comment about brushless, I am on the same page, there.

    I tend to have a few guiding principles when buying things :=

    - unless it's a very limited use item (like the angle grinder), then yeah, buy once, buy right.

    - set an overall maximum spend, and don't break it unless the reason is very good indeed,

    - but don't aim at the maximum. Aim lower, expecting to go up some, due to the second point. Be prepared for that.

    - then, for whatever it is, look at the next model up, work out what I get, whether I need (or just really want) that, and what it costs.

    For me, it's about the marginal gain by going a bit better, in the context of what it'll cost.

    Some benefits are more important than others. For instance, at heart, I'm a truly lazy git. I value hassle-avoidance highly. Buying things is a hassle. Selling things is about 50x the hassle of buying, so I do not buy with a view to upgrading, unless I have no choice (like houses).

    I'd rather buy a lot fewer things, but buy the best I can afford/justify, because it avoids the hassle of upgrading. I mean, upgrading by adding an extra bit on (like an extra PC hard drive), sure, no problem. Having to replace a bit, like changing GPU? .... Nah, not if I can help it, because doing so either means the hassle of selling the old one, or the wastefulness of leaving the old, working well but no longer sufficient, wasting away in a cupboad. Eiher the hassle of selling or the waste of not selling grinds my gears.

    Case in point. Thinking about a new desktop. What memory do I need? Probably 16GB. What will I get? Probably 32GB (2x16). Why? Saves me doing it later, won't cost massively more (as a % of the PC), and leaves two slots (in any mobo I'm likely to get) for another 2x16 pair.

    What GPU do I need? Urgh .... well, want/need, 3060-ish? What will I get? Partly due to anticipating not changing it, maybe 3070 but don't be surprised if I end up at 3080. Why? It's not that much more, and because i can. 3090? Now (for my needs and wants) that's just silly expensive.

    So .... back on point. Brushless? Oh, hell, yeah. That one is nailed on, superglued, welded and fused in, for me.

    Why? It's not that much more, and I just want it, okay? And .... because if I don't, buyer's remorse is going to ruin my retail therapy experience by making me wish I had, about 5 minutes after it arrives, whether I can actually tell the difference, for my needs, between brushed and brushless or not.

    My actual advice (not that you asked for it) - decide on brushed vs BL based on the marginal cost, the marginal pain of spending the extra on it. And that depends on your circumstances, which only you know. My circumstances are based on being retired, no kids to support, house paid off and rarely going abroad these days, so I have a decent 'indulgences' pot. But it's not unlimited. If I spend it on 'A', I might or might not be able to spend it on 'B', or at least, not yet. Do I want 'it' enough to forego/defer 'B'? For the difference between standard and BL, it makes no odds. Between a Ford or an Aston Martin? Grrr, dammit.
    Last edited by Saracen999; 13-05-2022 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Tpyo
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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    For occasional DIY brushed is fine provided you can service the brushes when the time comes.

    I always buy cabled not battery as my usage tends to be in bursts and sporadic enough that batteries will start to decondition and become obsolete. Like our hedge trimmer that we now have to replace because GTech can't be bothered to sell batteries for it anymore. It's unsustainable BS. Perfectly good tools written off because of corporate laziness. I get if you're a tradesman going to different locations every day battery makes a lot of sense. For home DIY, give me 240V any day. The cable hassle is worth it for me.

  6. #37
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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    I imagine it would be rectangular timber plate laid flat on top of stud wall, bolted double timber trimmer beam along the wall face (if spanning unsupported). Rafters notched onto timbers at both ends with birdmouth joints (2/3 depth of rafter typically) and frame cramps/rafter cramps/truss clips to hold things in place. NB to nog the rafters to brace them and stop rotation. Rafters and roofing should oversail the walls to give rain protection. SFAIK roof finishes should lap over eaves board and membrane brought back under. (Think about where drips form/runoff goes).
    Awesome thank you! Good to have the correct terminology as well. Spent a while looking through brackets but couldn't find one the right shape to hold a rafter on the beams!

    Going round in circles looks at the power tools still though, found a reasonable looking set Makita DLX2221ST 18v Brushless Twin Kit DHP483 Combi + DTD155 Impact Driver Inc 2x 5.0Ah Batts but the driver (despite the higher number) seems to be significantly down on torque to the DTD153 which was the cheapest individual I was looking at (~£72 atm). Will keep searching!

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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    For occasional DIY brushed is fine provided you can service the brushes when the time comes.

    I always buy cabled not battery as my usage tends to be in bursts and sporadic enough that batteries will start to decondition and become obsolete. Like our hedge trimmer that we now have to replace because GTech can't be bothered to sell batteries for it anymore. It's unsustainable BS. Perfectly good tools written off because of corporate laziness. I get if you're a tradesman going to different locations every day battery makes a lot of sense. For home DIY, give me 240V any day. The cable hassle is worth it for me.
    I agree on the issue of use and, to a degree, the 'infrequent use' point. I have to say, so far, I haven't had a problem with Makita batteries, or 48v Mountfield batteries for lawnmower, strimmer/brushcutter, etc. Or with availability of batteries. On that point, I'd stick with brands, being it Makita, deWalt, (or Mountfied), etc that are heavily used by trades and where they know they have to keep something as core as battery format for a good long time or they'll destroy their userbase. The whole point is a small number of easily replaceable batteries, that fit a wide range of tools over a wide period of time.

    Even so, that won't eliminate the battery thing entirely, but it does (IMHO) minimise it, and you get the upside of not dragging power cords all over the place. It is so, so much nicer to mow the lawn, strim weeds, cut hedges etc without the cords dragging everywhere. My health does give me some limitations, I admit, so it focuses my attention on those differences, but it's the difference between those jobs being okay, kinda, and them wiping me out for a couple of days.

    The Mountfield batteries are about 5 years old as of now, and still okay, but yeah, sooner or latter, they'll needs replacing. And they are emphatically not cheap. About £140 each, IIRC. But, it's worth it (to me) to avoid the cords .... and to not faff about with starting/maintaining engines.

    Oh, and the battery in our Dyson portable cleaner must be a good 10+ years old now. It doesn't last as long as it used to but it is still going, and lasts long enough. Last time I checked with Dyson (2 or 3 years, I guess) they could still supply a replacement, but it turned out I didn't need it.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    My previous budget batter drill was on NiCad batteries I think, either way the performance dropped to nothing after a few years, no economical replacement options for it so had to go in the recycling. My current budget battery drill is going strong after a good number of years and stay charge pretty well for odd jobs, will probably pass it on if I do get another. I feel like the 18V tech has plateaued for a while now and it's simply manufacturers changes that are causing issues. Unofficial adapters appear to be available now, but like Saracen I'm hoping a professional leaning brand will not try and pull the same tricks consumer focussed ones do.

    But I'm also aware that power tools are a luxury / fun item and I could probably complete my little project with cheap / existing / hand tools without too much more difficulty so no-one should feel sorry for me blowing some cash Battery powered is a huge convenience thing for me, can't imagine doing some previous jobs crawling around narrow areas with an extension trailing behind. I did go from a cordless hedge trimmer to a corded on after the former broke (was a double pack with a edge trimmer so second battery put to good use) - for the single job I could cope with the cable to get a lot better performance for the same money. Then I moved house after a couple of uses and gave it away...

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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    I imagine it would be rectangular timber plate laid flat on top of stud wall, bolted double timber trimmer beam along the wall face (if spanning unsupported ie not fixed to the wall). Rafters notched onto timbers at both ends with birdmouth joints (2/3 depth of rafter typically i.e. 2/3 timber remaining, 1/3 cut out. You can go to 50% max but for thinner timbers it's usually better to stay at 1/3, particularly the low end where you want the rafter to continue)
    I'm curious about this now - is there a particular advantage of bolting two together rather than just using thicker wood?

    Actually it looks like it's max 50mm on the C16 timber I can get. Sorry thinking out loud! So I'll go for a second piece on top of the lower side (stud wall). Less sure on the garage wall side. I was pondering the beam "on it's end" so I could bolt through it into the wall. If is was two on their sides then I would be best using brackets under the lower one I guess.

    Will get back to the internet - struggling to get enough time to research, who knows when I'll actually get the rest of the bits I need!

    And thanks to everyone for chipping in on this thread, keeping me motivated and moving forward

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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbouk View Post
    I'm curious about this now - is there a particular advantage of bolting two together rather than just using thicker wood?

    Actually it looks like it's max 50mm on the C16 timber I can get. Sorry thinking out loud! So I'll go for a second piece on top of the lower side (stud wall). Less sure on the garage wall side. I was pondering the beam "on it's end" so I could bolt through it into the wall. If is was two on their sides then I would be best using brackets under the lower one I guess.

    Will get back to the internet - struggling to get enough time to research, who knows when I'll actually get the rest of the bits I need!

    And thanks to everyone for chipping in on this thread, keeping me motivated and moving forward
    yes there is a benefit. 1) cheaper to order; 2) use of two members less susceptible to local knots, etc; 3) the design code allows a stress increase of 1.1x and higher modulus when pairs of timbers are used (due to the stats and probabilities of like-weakness in two separate timbers simultaneously); 4) easier to cut trunks into smaller sections without issues of grain patterns etc affecting properties (hence lower cost as 1); 5) less shrinkage and drying sensitivity, defects like wane, shakes etc reduced.

    So yes, a big benefit to using pairs of bolted timbers. Primarily though, so far as the average chippy is concerned, it means he can just order one thing. And that, usually, makes everything easier for everyone.

    The flat timber sits on top of the stud wall. Where this isn't the case the timbers should be in their strong orientation (2No 100dp x 50w bolted together in a pair to make 100w) To span your 3m (no support from brickwork) you'd probably be better with 3No 100 or 2No 125/150 dp if you think the roof is going to get any serious loading like someone standing on it, sticking a ladder on it etc. The only reason not to bolt into your wall (called a face fixed wall-plate, but often shortened to just "wall plate", which can also mean a flat timber sat on top of a wall) is if you think differential movement will be an issue (eg of the shallow concrete slab vs the house). Unless the wall is in very poor condition or very flimsy most brick walls should handle a modest loading from a small lean-to roof. My default would be to make the lean-to self supporting however and just flash/seal onto the wall but that's just so I could remove/replace it in future easily without affecting the main structure.
    Last edited by ik9000; 13-05-2022 at 10:44 PM.

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  12. #42
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    Re: Lean-to Bike Shed

    Managed to get some 2x4s from Wickes, picked up 12 of the best. B&Q were the cheapest but no stock. Lots with gashes on the corners or just not great - glad I picked myself rather than just getting delivery! A 'bonus' (or not consider the substantial price) was that it was actually C24 wood - I guess they just can't get stock of the C16. Will pop back again in a couple of weeks and get some more.

    Also got myself a drill and battery set on order. Just pondering over the impact driver now. £40 for the cheapest brushed Matika atm, £65 for brushless - hopefully won't buy one again so I think I've made up my mind. Screwfix order in for the truss clips and the last couple of bits.

    (Yet again) I think the only unknowns are the exterior paint (colour as much as anything!) and securing the top beam to the wall. No load on the roof except me when fitting it fortunately so don't need to massively over-engineer. Given the quality of off the shelf sheds I do wonder whether I've gone overkill on this one! But oh well hopefully it'll last a good long time.

    The only other thought that keeps popping in my head is lighting. I do wonder if some perspex would make sense, can have a light but seems a shame to need it all the time. The long low wall will have a single piece of OSB for most of it, then a ~30cm strip at the top - I could use something in the middle section. Just looks at the fence and will be overhung by the roof - but long and wide could give a bit of general light (and shouldn't effect things too much). On the door side would be the obvious choice as it faces into the garden rather than a wall, but as my wee boy gets older it's going to be pelted with a football at some point I assume...

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