Lean-to Bike Shed

[ik9000]

Proper reclaimed sleepers of ye olde variety creosoted to their eyeballs can probably sit on the concrete and should behave themselves. Modern sleepers will still need treating. As TeePee says some sort of DPC barrier is usually recommended to stop direct wetting of timbers, especially softwoods.

I imagine the person who did your slab used the timber surround as permanent formwork and the guides to skim the surface level. The timber surround, being lower down and in contact with the ground, will probably suffer before any shed/lean to you build on top of the slab tbh.

The youtube video makes a lot of use of a nail gun, which is fine, provided you never want/need to take it down and change bits. Personally I go for brackets and screws etc. Takes longer to put up but I know I can have an easy time of it in future if I need to undo it. I'm currently trying to remove some noggins which were skew-nailed via nail-gun in the 1980s. It's not easy.

By using screws I also don't have to worry about inadvertently shooting a nail into myself/someone else. Getting the power setting wrong can have catastrophic effects. I recall one site having a major incident where one of the operatives was nail-gunning into a concrete wall, only one part of the wall was thinned down and when he reached that section the nail went through the concrete and into someone working behind it. Not pleasant.

Consider how you're going to fix the shed down into the concrete. Is the slab reinforced? What edge spacings and embedment depth do your proposed anchors require, and therefore what are the implications for where the shed walls need to be positioned?

[jimbouk]

Yeah definitely will be using screws, the nail gun scares me! Only got a cordless drill so might treat myself to an impact driver, especially if anything needs pilot holes. Doing the loft was not fun swapping bits constantly!

The base is just standard concrete (poured from a truck). For securing the sleepers I've seen a few options. Drilling and epoxy-ing in a threaded bar is one, but that was recommended for someone building a pond with the weight of water pushing out. Brackets with decent concrete anchor bolts might solve a few issues, moving the holes away from the edge and I can use them in the corners as well as in the straights. I can always just do a generous number of them. Bolts right through is the other one but that will put the holes 50mm from the edge. If I could start again I'd embed brackets on the concrete but we're too late for that now!

[ik9000]

If you want to bolt into the concrete rather than into some bricks laid onto the concrete (which, if you did, should be DPC rated, frost-resistant bricks in M12(i) mortar = 1 : ½ : 4-4½ cement:lime:sand) then you have two options, either mechanical anchors or resin anchors. I would go for the latter:

Have a look at the Rawlplug R-KerII (external/internal) and R-kemII (internal) resin and either rawlplug/fischer anchors available from toolstation and screwfix. Best bang for your buck I've found for domestic use that are readily available while backed up by sensible tech data. However you will need a hammer drill/SDS to get them in and concrete bit, hole brush and blower pump (I use the fischer one for about £20), and a heavy duty caulking gun (which will last you for every other caulking job you'll need too). If the slab is reinforced you will ideally need to scan it first to position holes away from rebar. OR you can play battleships and fill in the dud holes with concrete repair mortar / any leftover resin.

Resin
https://assets.rawlplug.com/98428627...20CONCRETE.pdf
https://assets.rawlplug.com/98428627...DED%20RODS.pdf
https://www.toolstation.com/rawlplug...r-resin/p51598
https://www.toolstation.com/r-kemii-...uty-gun/p26278
I presume this is an equivalent gun as a standalone: https://www.toolstation.com/rotating-sealant-gun/p35102

studs: Screwfix sell Rawlplug ones, Toolstation Fischer ones, I used the Fischer ones on my garage platform as they were cheaper.
https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-...ed-stud/p48365 (that's the M16 BZP mild steel version, M10/M12 might also work, it depends how much timber you need to get it through.

For R-KerII resin the required concrete embedment is 60mm, so you need length = 60mm + 5-10mm tolerance + depth of timber + washer + nut thickness (typically the diameter) plus at least two whole threads and the end nipple). The edge spacing is just 40mm as the datasheet above. Since your base timber (sole plate) will presumably be 95-100mm wide (laid-flat) this allows you to centre the bolt on the timber and have the timber close to the edge of the concrete as desired.

If you want better longevity you can consider for more cost either A2 stainless (the type for 304 grade brackets) or A4 stainless (the type for 316 brackets etc - and better durability than A2).
https://www.toolstation.com/a2-stain...al-stud/p14071
https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-...ed-stud/p33516

hole cleaning. The bond of chemical to concrete is key to their tensile performance. This probably matters less for bolts downwards into the ground where gravity is on your side, but for best practice you really ought to brush and blow 4 times:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234293017258 select the right R-brush size for the hole size you're using. See chart on here: https://www.rawlplug.com/en/product/...allation-guide and follow the installation instructions. You'll be amazed how much dust stays in without manual cleaning, even using a vacuum doesn't get it all out.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fischer-Aus...dp/B003AFYJD6/ Don't be tempted by cheaper blowers. This one is the business, properly sealed against suck-back/dust ingress and with an appropriate hole cap

Resin anchors are a longer install than mechanical expanding anchors but by installing resin anchors the anchor stud is bonded into the concrete and you can place the heavy-duty polythene(etc) DPC over the studs, then seal it shut with a glue-weld disc thing melted in place. The pre-drilled timber (used as a guide for the bolts) slots over and you bolt everything up on the top side using a long-piece socket/ratchet or spanner. You can undo it in future and if needs be grind off the anchors.

A mechanical anchor sfaik can be harder to extract as once it's been wound out I'm not sure how readily it winds back in. It's more dubious as to its performance as it relies on getting a good "bite" - not always guaranteed, and how can you tell? It is also impossible to seal the DPC in the same way as you don't get the same access without the timber in place since you have to have everything assembled before you push the bolt through and tighten it up.

My farthing's worth. Other opinions will no doubt land shortly. As with everything there is always more than one way to do something. This is just what I might try. It's not a design and you use it your own risk etc.

[jimbouk]

I think I'm going to wuss out on the securing and go with brackets and bolts. The shed base should be good (it was off the back of a truck concrete so the mix should be spot on) but I'd like to keep the holes away from the edges a bit more still. It's also easier for me, and I'm not planning on the sleepers supporting anything other than the shed itself - I have the garage wall for the bikes.

So I've started a shopping list in the first post, and thrown together a little floor plan. I'll need to do similar for the front elevation to help with understanding how much wood I'll need. I was pondering whether I needed another short sleeper rather than pushing it with two. The advantage would be I could make the shed slightly longer by doing the join the other way round, disadvantage is obviously cost! I wouldn't want the door much narrower, my bike handlebars are 70cm and it would be good not to squeeze.

Walls are still very much TBC. OSB is tempting as 2 out of the three walls will never be seen. The front one I could do something nicer with. I've also not got great access so will need to put the back and side walls on 'complete'.

[jimbouk]

Spending and work has commenced! Nothing dramatic, just a coat of grey for the base and a few screws and bolts picked up at the same time. The concrete bolts are beasts - they should hold things to the floor no trouble! Same with the sleeper screws. Admire battleship grey with a few blossom leaves:



Unfortunately the wind picked up so it's looking rather more decorated, and there was weather took a turn from the pleasant forecast so it's a bit wet as well I swept repeatedly before application but there was still dust and small stones in places to it wasn't a pretty job. Will let it dry properly and then clean up best I can and use the rest of the pot for a second coat later.

The brackets were a swing and a miss - nothing like the picture so no holes big enough for the bolts! Refunded no issues, will have to get from somewhere else as Screwfix had nothing similar. Away next week but might order the wood the week after and do some prep in evenings. Still need to figure our the angle for the roof, and what I'm going to clad the sides with though!

Edit: updated the original post with a running total, don't know if I'll share it with the other half...

[ik9000]

The brackets were a swing and a miss - nothing like the picture so no holes big enough for the bolts! Refunded no issues, will have to get from somewhere else as Screwfix had nothing similar. Away next week but might order the wood the week after and do some prep in evenings. Still need to figure our the angle for the roof, and what I'm going to clad the sides with though!

what kind of brackets are you after? Edit: and what diameter are your bolts?

[jimbouk]

M10 bolts, just something with a right angle and some holes These looked perfect but alas it wasn't too be:



Oh and popped out for a quick brush, my arms hurt from last time! Tidied up not too badly.

[ik9000]

M10 bolts, just something with a right angle and some holes These looked perfect but alas it wasn't too be:



Oh and popped out for a quick brush, my arms hurt from last time! Tidied up not too badly.

you wouldn't generally use M10 with that kind of bracket, they're often too thin to merit it. The common ones use M6 holes generally IIRC, and mostly intended for screws/nails 3.5-5mm in diameter. You can get bigger holed heavy-duty angles, but you need to do your research before buying. Toolstation do the BPC range who publish datasheets. Elsewhere you can order Simpson Strongtie brackets such as these: https://www.metrofixings.co.uk/produ...m-x-48mm/23869 (the simpson strongtie website is crapping out atm for some reason, you might need to use google cache to get the datasheets)

[jimbouk]

Just looking at the Toolstation stocked BPC brackets as advised - sounds like the quality of what's being offered at Screwfix has dropped recently from the newer reviews. Nice to have an accurate data sheet with hole dimensions! Will probably stick with the overkill M10 bolt in the 11mm hole as it's generally in the best position rather than going smaller and having them in odd places.

I've got permission to start spending Still a few things to decide so will get my researching hat back on, notably the walls! 2 of the 3 sides are completely hidden so whatever is cheapest and can be make weatherproof!

Oh and also need something to go the cutting! And maybe a new drill and a impact driver... that will be coming out of my pocket money rather than the household budget though! Been keeping my eye out for a combo deal on Hotukdeals but nothing has shown up. Every time a circular saw comes on one of the early comments is "you should spend more on the brushless one"...

[jimbouk]

Productive (?) morning on the shed today. I just couldn't get my head round how it was going to work with the bikes on the wall (roof height, space) so I did what any sensible person would do and put a couple of the mounts up. This allowed my to get a better feel for the space and see what was needed. I've said it before (not sure on here but regularly in response to the "Can't you just put them in the garage with your car?" or "Can't you just get a small ready made shed?") and I'll say it again, bikes are large!

Popped a side profile (door end) on the first post, frame for the door should make up for the losses due to squaring off the sleepers and general cuts so should work out OK. Not got all the supports listed so will be working that out on paper before buying the 2x4s.

Walls I'm going for OSB, will need an oil/latex paint (and undercoat) but I hope it'll be cheaper. Just trying to get my head around how the heck I work out how much I need! I found this guide (https://www.secrets-of-shed-building...using-OSB.html) so will go for 9mm OSB with 0.6m spaced supporting timbers. Panels are 2400 x 1200mm so I'll need two for the long wall (need to figure out which way is 'up' when they arrive). Will get some off cuts from this so will go for 3 boards between the other two sides. Roof will need 2 again, but the 11mm (0.4m supporting timbers).

[jimbouk]

Looks like for the 2x4 I'd be best off getting it from Wickes, and collecting so I don't get bad bits. 2.4m lengths will go in the car so will head over. Seems to be 25 needed

Edit: if the roof needs more supports could they be thinner?

[Saracen999]

.... Every time a circular saw comes on one of the early comments is "you should spend more on the brushless one"...

Well, me = not an expert, by a LONG way but my reaction to that is ... yes provided you're likely to use it a fair bit.

Generally, I'm in favour of 'buy right, by once' logic, and it's the result of bitter experience over the years. The exception, for me, is for tools I want/need either to make a specific job much easier, or to be practical to do it all all. And, rental is usually an option in these siituations. Or buy, but cheap.

Example. I had a old (no longer connected - see note) gas pipe sticking up in the corner of my garage, and it was VERY heavy steel. I could have used it tomoor a battleship .... if I wasn't about 60 miles from the coast. I'd have been there for a month with a hand hacksaw, and wanted it gone.

So, cheap (£15) angle grinder. It did the job just fine, and still works about 5 years later, used maybe once a year, if that.

If I was a regular DIY-er and was going to use a circular saw (or whatever) a lot, then yeah, good brand, probably brushless, is a good idea and I'd be willing to pay for it. For a definitely occasional use tool, not so much.


Note - it used to run from the gas meter to the old boiler, but when we replaced the boiler a few years back, it had to be moved .... planning regs (thanks for that, government ) meant it could no longer be put in the built-in, purpose-designed, built-with-the-house and properly ventilated boiler cupboard, but had to be moved to the utility room. Cost a fortune, and left me with a redundant boiler cupboard. Mind you, guess where I got my security and server room from, though?

[jimbouk]

Yeah, someone else recommended hiring but after a quick look it seemed like a false economy. Yes the kit will be professional quality, I'm probably going to not buy enough wood the first time, or have enough time to do everything in one go so will either be paying £100s or just be having to buy another after anyway.

Drilling the holes for the bike hangers, my old battery drill was still going strong but I think the bit was pretty much blunt. Plug socket next to where I was working so busted out my SDS hammer drill (bought in a hurry, cheapest Screwfix had to offer) and they were finished in seconds. Maybe mains powered would save me some on the saw, and I could see if I could find a impact driver compatible with my current drill/batteries. Can't see cutting that much wood after (loft will need boarding properly at some point), but was fine with a fresh hand saw last time! Ugh indecision When I have a pile of wood that'll motivate me for a decision.

Excited to get cracking soon, will have to book some days off work and get chopping

[Saracen999]

There is something about hand-sawing wood, isn't there? Still, appealing though that is, in way, I'd still go power.

Battery or mains is trickier. Battery (at least good ones) is expensive .... unless you already have, or are buying into, a range that all share batteries. I'm a Makita fan, personally. And with a circular saw, there is an added element of ease of use due to lack of dragging a cable about. That said, it's usually a case of setting up to work somewhere, then doing all the cutting in that one place, unlile a drill, say, where you often kinda have to take drill to where you want the holes 'cos moving the wall to the drill station is problematic.

More seriously, circular, or maybe better off with mitre/compound mitre? Depends on the cuts, I guess? If it's mainly planks for the walls, the latter may be easier, faster and more accurate.

[jimbouk]

I was pretty sold on the Makita kit before, and have now committed as there was a good deal on a circular saw which answers a lot of questions! Just need batteries and an impact driver, but will cost up the options as it might just be worth getting a twin set.

Garage now has sleepers and OSB in it, might try and take the passenger seat out before getting the beams. Will try and do some prep on the wood next week, then off for a week, then have booked Tue/Wed the week after off and my mum's over so will see what I can achieve before the bank holiday weekend!

I think my only big question left is how to attach the roof beams to the frames. Will have a flat piece of wood top and bottom but obviously a slope between. Back to YouTube and the internet I think!

[Saracen999]

I.... Just need batteries and an impact driver, but will cost up the options as it might just be worth getting a twin set.

....

Twinsets, yeah.

Remember that snake in the Jungle Book film. The one with the ssssibilant voice, and the spiral, hypnotic eyes? Well, Makita has that effect on me. I start out looking at a cheap drill, then ... well, brushless, y'know. Hmm, batteries. Ah, twinset. And it'll only be £x to add the impact driver. But, .... saw? And then, ...

Well, those snake eyes are runnng well, and now I'm looking at an £800 kit in a bag, with everything from the £100 drill I need, to a reciprocating saw, site radio, torch, washing machine, kitchen sink, several spare widgets and a doodad or two I can't even identify.

Then the phone rang and broke the spell, before I clicked buy.

That was a close one.

Be careful, Jimbo.