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Thread: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    My husband and I love espresso. We thought for a very long time whether it was worth buying a coffee machine at all. But then they thought that every morning paying for coffee in a coffee shop opposite the house was more expensive than making coffee at home. Therefore, we allocated funds and bought Breville Vertuo Plus.
    Last edited by kalniel; Yesterday at 11:47 AM.

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Simpson View Post
    But then they thought that every morning paying for coffee in a coffee shop opposite the house was more expensive than making coffee at home.
    I have to say I am stunned at how many cups our machine is banging out. So a warning to anyone reading this thread: my original title has turned out to be wrong. If the cost is just beans and water, and a tasty beverage is a couple of button presses away, expect your usage to be quite high.

    ... and I would consider myself a tea drinker really

    Edit: running costs are a little complicated. We buy one or two small bags of beans per week. I occasionally get filters for the water jug which gets mainly used for the coffee machine (only a factor for those of us in a hard water area). With filtered water, the machine demands a descale maybe every 6 months with delonghi descaler costing I think £8.50 for a two pack. Sometimes we buy various syrups. So there are other costs, but dominated by the beans.
    Last edited by DanceswithUnix; 10-02-2021 at 11:44 AM.

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    Senior Member Pob255's Avatar
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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    well I ended up spending my cash on a vr set instead, so I'm sticking with what I've got.

    While you can spend absolutely stupid money on coffee it's all pretty much chasing the 99%
    or let me put it another way, this also goes out to people on coffeeforums who look down on bean to cup, why are you wasting £1000 on a grinder when you're not roasting your own beans? and why are you wasting your time roasting when you could be feeding the berries to cats and separating the beans from their poo by hand?
    damb lowly plebeians not knowing how much the flavour improves by hand sifted cat poop!

    Not spending money on a grinder can be fine, buy the Lavazza vacuum sealed ground coffee packs, it will lose a bit by the time you get to the end of a bag but a fresh bag is great and it'll take a little while for it to go stale, esp if you get a decent air tight container to put it in once opened.
    Here's a little fact many coffee snobs refuse to acknowledge, roasted beans go stale as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Or Wales, Yorkshire, pretty much anywhere really. Growing up in the Thames Valley it was always a shock when I visited somewhere and the first shower used my usual amount of detergent to find myself standing there encased in vast amounts of suds
    Oh yes I know that one, I have not descaled my kettle once in the 4? years I've been in brum now, in london, I'd descale it every couple of months when my tea/coffee got too gritty.

    On that note if you live in a hard water area then maybe one of the hand pumped espresso machines might be better? my flatmate who had an espresso machine, well it's pump died, after it got jammed by scale even with regular cleaning.
    This was his 2nd the first was killed by scale blocking the tiny pin holes it pushes the water through overloading the pump, he got feed up and got a large stove top pot instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_p...lian%20culture. I do like these, they are a bit of work and not great if you've got an electric hob or only large gas rings

    I know you can safely use white vinegar to descale and degunk filter coffee machines and that's a lot cheaper than descaling liquids, not sure about the safety on espresso machines but it should be fine.

    back on the subject of instant, if you are a coffee snob you will never drink instant, but I still stand that good instant is passable, one thing to note never strong, instant made strong is always overly bitter mud.
    And I said good instant, Percol rocket fuel is not great, the Percol instant espresso is decent if used as normal instant coffee, not as espresso, no instant is good as espresso or black.

    Here's a couple of things I've gotten into.
    Cinnamon sprinkled on cappuccino not coco powder
    Coconut milk, works really well in latte, doesn't froth quite as well for cappuccino, keeps a bit longer once opened.
    Espresso con panna whipped cream on espresso (no sugar)

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Simpson View Post
    My husband and I love espresso. We thought for a very long time whether it was worth buying a coffee machine at all. But then they thought that every morning paying for coffee in a coffee shop opposite the house was more expensive than making coffee at home. Therefore, we allocated funds and bought Breville Vertuo Plus.
    At the risk of sounding like a coffee snob (and I'm not, and have a Vertuo machine myself) that isn't really espresso. The OriginalLine isn't either, but it's a bit closer.

    There is no official definition of espresso, but there is of Certified Italian Espresso, and SCA guidelines pretty must agree, and there IS an official definition to get that Italian certification, and since the Italians invented the espresso process in the firsat place, they're hard to ignore in deciding what is or isn't espresso. The rules involve weight of coffee grounds going in, water temperature, pressure at the head, volume of coffee water out, and the percolation time used. Nespresso misses a bit on almost all of those, and the Vertuo especially, since it uses centrifugal force not simple pressure.

    Does it matter? Not in my opinion. Would most people notice the difference? In a side-by-side comparison, probably, provided the espresso was well made. They certainly would if it was badly made because it can be utterly foul. Would most people care? That's very subjective indeed. Some people like the taste of Nespresso, while others don't, or at least, say they don't.

    But going back to "proper" espresso, those Italian certification rules require 7.0g of coffee grounds, +/- 0.5g, to go in. The mast majority of standard espresso recipes would fail right there, since a convention says 18g-20g in the portafilter. Bearing in mind that the conventional basket holds a double shot, hence most machines having two spouts (one on Nespresso) and that you make two shots at once, the maximum coffee in, for Italian certification, is 15g (7g, +/-0.5g, twice) and as soon as you stick 18g in,let alone 20g, you're outside INEI rules.

    So the vast majority of "proper" espresso made outside Italy doesn't comply with proper Italian rules either, including pretty much every non-Italian cafe. But the VertuoLine go much further away from "spec" than that, not least due to the centrifugal force. OriginalLine tend to use too little coffee, too high a pressure, and too little time (though not by much) too.

    But again, who cares? Purists would, no doubt. But all most people care about if whether they like the taste of the espresso-like drink they get.

    My opinion? I prefer "proper" espresso, but typically in the 18g version rather than true Italian, provided it's well made. What I don't enjoy is the faff, which is why I was recently right on the edge of spending two grand on a machine than substantially reduced the amount of faff, until I found out I also probably needed a fairly expensive water filtration system (or bottled water, and unacceptable amounts of emply plastic bottles) to avoid the risk of an expensive machine failing due to scale very quickly.

    My Vertuo machine produces a drink I find .... okay. Not great, but good enough. And it does it with absolutely minimal faff. But is it espresso? Not really. It is, however, sufficiently espresso-like for me, at least, at the moment.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pob255 View Post
    ....

    I know you can safely use white vinegar to descale and degunk filter coffee machines and that's a lot cheaper than descaling liquids, not sure about the safety on espresso machines but it should be fine.

    ....
    I was warned off it, though I do use it on kettles, etc. The logic, IIRC, was that it's too acidic and threatens the integity of things like rubber pressure seals, which of course, isn't an issue in kettles or filter-type machines, but is in an espresso machine.

    And, of course, it can take quite a bit of flushing to get the vinegar-taste out.

    For anybody reading this without paying close attention, I'd stress Pob said white vinegar. Don't use malt vinegar. Just .... don't. Shudder.
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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    For anybody reading this without paying close attention, I'd stress Pob said white vinegar. Don't use malt vinegar. Just .... don't. Shudder.
    how about balsamic?

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Black vinegar?
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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pob255 View Post
    how about balsamic?
    Sounds like an idea. Let me know how it works out for you.

    Has to be a good quality, aged bottle though.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pob255 View Post
    I know you can safely use white vinegar to descale and degunk filter coffee machines and that's a lot cheaper than descaling liquids, not sure about the safety on espresso machines but it should be fine.
    Perhaps I could, but I just bought a descaling pack and according to Amazon I bought the previous one in September 2019, so well under a quid a month. Compare that to probably £15 per month on beans? And a bit more on whisky and sugar

    Also on a plus side, the "spent" descaler went straight into the kettle which is now like new!

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I have to say I am stunned at how many cups our machine is banging out. So a warning to anyone reading this thread: my original title has turned out to be wrong. If the cost is just beans and water, and a tasty beverage is a couple of button presses away, expect your usage to be quite high.

    ... and I would consider myself a tea drinker really

    Edit: running costs are a little complicated. We buy one or two small bags of beans per week. I occasionally get filters for the water jug which gets mainly used for the coffee machine (only a factor for those of us in a hard water area). With filtered water, the machine demands a descale maybe every 6 months with delonghi descaler costing I think £8.50 for a two pack. Sometimes we buy various syrups. So there are other costs, but dominated by the beans.
    We're running through about 500g of coffee per week at present, at 4 cups per day. That's pretty much the only cost other than electricity, since I never descale the coffee machine (the water here is softer than soft). So, £10-15 / week depending how fancy I go on the bean purchase. Still a lot cheaper than a coffee shop.

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Dunno if anyone is interested, but Sage have a 25% discount on all their machines. Pretty great for someone who wants at home espresso without spending a ton of time getting better at making them.

    The discount code is from HotUKDeals, MasterClass-FIp82Bqn.

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    We're running through about 500g of coffee per week at present, at 4 cups per day. That's pretty much the only cost other than electricity, since I never descale the coffee machine (the water here is softer than soft). So, £10-15 / week depending how fancy I go on the bean purchase. Still a lot cheaper than a coffee shop.
    Out of interest, which beans?

    The house favourite is the Sainsburys blend, strength 3. It's pretty cheap, I think a 250g bag is £2.30, and as it isn't just me drinking the stuff I don't try other beans that often.

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Some interesting discussions going on here. I'm missing my work provided B2C machine since WFH. We have a nespresso machine but I've never quite gotten to love it - its just feel expensive and wasteful. I couldn't quite afford a proper B2C machine and have settled on an Aeropress. If you like a French press style coffee I'd definitely recommend it (Use the inverted method with near boiling water and only let it set 10 seconds). Doesn't really do an espresso style but has plenty of different brew options as you have complete control for £25 or less. Definitely good for those of use on a budget (and its very portable if you travel). I ended up getting a cheap coffee grinder to go with. While its not quite B2C its covered my desires (or at least until I find out whether WFH is as permanent as I'd like). Invented by the guy who came up with the Frisbee. His only other real invention!
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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Heh, this thread's moved on a bit since I was last in here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    We're running through about 500g of coffee per week at present, at 4 cups per day. ...
    That's ... serious consumption. I thought we were heavy hitters, but I reckon the 1kg bags we buy probably last 3 - 4 weeks?

    That's got me thinking now - how long does a bag last?! Gonna have to keep an eye on the next one!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Out of interest, which beans? ...
    I was going to put a whole spiel about Lavazza here, but when I checked back I already did that last time I was in this thread The Sainsburys standard coffees are alright, and the Aldi beans (whatever they call their own-brand coffee) are surprisingly good too.

    I once tried the economy coffee from Sainsburys. "How bad can it be?", I thought. It's the only time I've thrown coffee away

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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    I have yet to try any supermarket beans..... Currently going through about 200-300g of coffee beans per week. No one else in my house drinks coffee, so it's all me
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    Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?

    Quote Originally Posted by neonplanet40 View Post
    I have yet to try any supermarket beans..... Currently going through about 200-300g of coffee beans per week. No one else in my house drinks coffee, so it's all me
    Wow, good effort!

    I have to keep the beans quite mild around here, I got complaints at the recent strong ones.

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