Ovens & combi-microwaves - what to get/avoid?

[Saracen999]

We're planning a new kitchen, and I'm finding it very tricky to assess both conventional single ovens, and combination microwaves.

We're looking for both. We're looking for very good quality, decent features, ease of use and especially, longevity. Ideally, this will be the last time we buy either.

We're not looking to buy expensive brands for posing purposes, but we DO want good quality and hopefully, long life, even if it means buying high-end. But does it?

Features :-

- easy to clean (pyrolytic??)
- ease of use (clear controls, telescopic trays, slide & hide doors
- accurate temperature control
- possibly steam function, if not silly expensive.

Anyone got any thoughts on what to go for, or avoid?

Our existing supplier is quoting for Neff. I've also looked at Miele, De Detriech (got their induction hub and happy with it), and Samsung.

Just to stress, we're not looking for expensive brands for the hell of it, but are quite prepared even for Miele prices provided we get those features, mainly ease of use and longevity.



EDIT - Should have made clear - I'm talking about built-in, not counter top.

[OwP]

I had a counter top Panasonic that lasted for about 10 years, only got rid when we moved and didn't have someplace for it to live. It was a microwave, oven, grill. Found it worked best as the microwave / oven, when used as a grill it suffered with fat splashes and wasn't the easiest thing to clean. It was mainly a microwave and had a turntable.
Do modern ones self clean? Probably have room now and would love to have a 2nd oven in the kitchen.

[kalniel]

When lockdown ends get yourself down to John Lewis and look at them in the flesh. Websites can never tell you how flimsy control dials are or how solid the door mechanism is. A little bit of prodding and you get a pretty good feel (literally) for whether a particular make/model is any good.

[Jonatron]

Both ovens and combi-microwave will have fans, motors, and elements, and none will last forever. So for this reason, I'd suggest looking for a brand that has spare parts easily available. A quick check suggests AEG is better for spare parts than some other brands I checked, but you should do your own check.

[Guy]

I've had a Samsung Combi since I moved into the current house. No complaints with it 8 years later.

My Mum has a Panasonic combi, wasn't cheap and the results are great. BUT... it's noisy and takes a LONG time to cool down and for the fans to switch off post cooking.

[Saracen999]

I had a counter top Panasonic that lasted for about 10 years, only got rid when we moved and didn't have someplace for it to live. It was a microwave, oven, grill. Found it worked best as the microwave / oven, when used as a grill it suffered with fat splashes and wasn't the easiest thing to clean. It was mainly a microwave and had a turntable.
Do modern ones self clean? Probably have room now and would love to have a 2nd oven in the kitchen.

Not sure about self-cleaning from Panasonic, but I've had combi microwaves from them for 30+ years. The latest one was nothing like as good as the early ones. For a start, the temperature is a good 20°C off (hotter than it claims), and probably more like 25°C.

Secondly, the turntable mechanism is cheap rubbish. It relies on cheap, nasty rollers in a ring and is forever slipping.

We are, however, still looking at Panasonic as an option but, with the doors that drop down and slide out of the way, and turntableless. The grill is pretty useless to, as it's either off or on full blast. It's too harsh.

What I should have made clearer, though, is that we're looking at built-in, not countertop. And both a single multi-purpose oven, and a built-in combination microwave that is at least microwave and convection.

[Saracen999]

When lockdown ends get yourself down to John Lewis and look at them in the flesh. Websites can never tell you how flimsy control dials are or how solid the door mechanism is. A little bit of prodding and you get a pretty good feel (literally) for whether a particular make/model is any good.

We plan to to exactly that. The problem is that since lockdown 1, JL's stock (and probably everybody else's too) is pretty low. Lots of models simply not available. Our kitchen company, at least for Neff and Miele, order direct and as we're ordering several months in advance of the job (probably March/April time) are confident they can get it .... even in a no-deal Brexit outcome. Of course, that's also got me looking at LG, Samsung, Panasonic, etc.

[AGTDenton]

I have to say +1 to the Panasonic microwaves, they are in a league of their own. Having moved back to my dads for health reasons, his is still going 20 years later. They are very expensive these days, but well worth it, would love to justify getting one myself but can't for now.
I'd avoid a microwave that doesn't have a rotating plate, they cook so unevenly, that said I'd risk it on some of the Panasonics I've seen in JL.

Unfortunately can't help on a decent oven. But what I can say is avoid the all in ones if you can, i.e. stove & oven in one cabinet, they are awful.

[Saracen999]

We will avoid all-in-ones, mainly because we have a relatively new induction hob already, and I'm not replacing it just for the sake of something new. Besides, if it does pack up, I can easily replace that myself.

The more expensive Panasonic microwaves don't have a turntable. Instead, the microwave emitter rotates, but out of sight.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

We have a top end Sharp one which has nearly 15 years,which we bought from John Lewis.In fact it seems to be still being made:
https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/sharp-r...z-grill-silver
https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p...microwave-oven

It was under £200 when we bought it(but I think it was still £200~£300 RPP back then),so don't know how good the value is in today's market. The interior is full stainless steel,and the rotating plate is made of ceramic with deep edges. The spindle is also made of stainless steel,with 3 spokes and a wheel on each of them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVdkrmoq2Lc

[Zak33]

I'm mid new-oven search too!!

Have had two Bosch previously, both faultless for many years. But the Catalytic liners are a debateable item VS price. Because to clean them, you need to crank it to the max heat, and once it achieves max heat (way over normal cooking temp) you leave it for an hour, and during that time it stinks worse than during regular cooking as it burns everything off.....windows open job tbh... and used a bloody fortune in electricit doing it.

So I'm researching the new NEF jobs with "stick a bowl of washing up water in the bottom and heat it up, wipe it clean with the steam" theory.

I have currently got a truly dire oven that was in this house when we moved in. The date label puts it at 8 years old. Every rubber seal has fallen off the door glasses, which I have repeatedly re-attached using the crap clamps that press the glass
The control knobs are wobbly, the lower oven fan-oven heater element is dead and the top oven is our last resort. The orange light that shows it's heating up has fallen inside the casing and we have to crouch down to peer through the hole to see if it's up to heat... as sometimes it just stops working. I dislike it in words that are not suitable as PeterB is watching over me from somehwhere....

It's a Hotpoint. Oh the irony of the word hot. I'd not bother with them or associated brands

NEF BOSCH are the same thing, within a tenner of easch other (read VW / AUDI/ SEAT /SKODA ) so it's down to handle design/buttons vs knobsetc I'm looking for as much black as viable and as little stainless steel on the front as possible

[Saracen999]

As I understand it (but could be wrong) catalytic liners and pyrolytic are different. Similar (burn off dirt) but catalytic liners have a reputation for needing replacing every few years.

Our current "main" oven isn't much used, not least because it's old (I think Noah bought it, second-hand, for the Ark), the seals are gone and it's .... uneven. I do want to do a LOT more baking, given a decent oven, which is one reason for considering a steam option.

A friend had 6 Neff items in his second home, and despite fairly low usage, 2 have packed up and one is showing signs. Okay, it's minimal anecdotal, but doesn't fill me with confidence. He's just (as in being fitted now) opted for Bosch in his new kitchen in main home.

Makes me think.

[Saracen999]

Apparently, catalytic liners are removable, and rely on chemicals to absorb grease, etc, and are then heated to about 200-220°C to soften it for cleaning. I.e. operates at the med-high end of normal cooking temperates, and takes about 30 minutes.

Pyrolytic is a permanent feature that requires very high heats (around 400-500°C) to burn deposits to ash, which can then just be wiped away. But, obviously, there's a cost in energy to do that, and the pyrolytic cycle takes several hours to heat up, work, then cool back down and meantime, safety locks engage preventing the door being opened.

[ik9000]

We have a panasonic microwave and are very happy with it, but it's not as feature-rich as you were describing. I have a which membership if you have any particular models you want me to check for you. What we tend to see is no brand is 100% ok, every good rated brand is for particular models only and other models by the same manufacturer don't score as well etc.

our oven is an old rangemaster that we inherited and it is excellent. except for the glass door that is needing cleaning - shame it couldn't be easy clean. Old flats had various brands. The best was a hotpoint that heated up almost instantly and rarely needed cleaning, not as much as el old rangemaster (though it is very old now so probably newer models will be better).

[Zak33]

NEF fitted now

https://www.neff-home.com/uk/product...ens/J1ACE4HN0B

As per reviews,the lower oven is fractionally smaller than I'd have liked, but the features compensate.
I have removed the sliding shelf mechanism as it takes up far too much room

Speed heat up is good. Fan cooking the most even I've used , left/right AND high low.

What I call "rottiserie" effect (the grill comes, then goes on and the fan stirs the air.. then the grill comes on againb, etc etc...)is as good as my previous Bosch and I use it very often to finish off

Timer is good AND the speed heat upfunction beeps when it's up to temp,

Quite pleased

[P1lk0]

If your not used to Neff just bear in mind that their version of fan oven is more efficient than most ovens and you will need to reduce the temperature further to account for this. Should be a conversion chart in the manual.