Ryzen RAM compatibility and motherboard QVL

I'm having some trouble getting my RAM to POST consistently at it's rated speed so I've been reading around and watching videos. A couple of times I've read that if your RAM is on on your motherboard QVL list it might lead to 'memory training' taking longer than it should as the BIOS does not have pre-baked settings for your RAM kit. Is this true?

This is a relevant article from Games Nexus https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...-uclock-mclock

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One of the biggest points to remember during all of this -- and any other memory testing published by other outlets -- is that motherboard matters almost more than the memory kit itself. Motherboards are responsible for most of the timings auto configured on memory kits, even when using XMP, as XMP can only store so much data per kit. The rest, including unsurfaced timings that the user never sees, are done during memory training by the motherboard. Motherboard manufacturers maintain a QVL (Qualified Vendor List) of kits tested and approved on each board, and we strongly encourage system builders to check these lists rather than just buying a random kit of memory. Motherboard makers will even tune timings for some kits, so there’s potentially a lot of performance lost by using mismatched boards and memory.

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Originally Posted by Ciber

I'm having some trouble getting my RAM to POST consistently at it's rated speed so I've been reading around and watching videos. A couple of times I've read that if your RAM is on on your motherboard QVL list it might lead to 'memory training' taking longer than it should as the BIOS does not have pre-baked settings for your RAM kit. Is this true?

This is a relevant article from Games Nexus https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...-uclock-mclock

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Where have you read that? I can't see anything in the article saying memory training would take longer.

OK maybe it wasn't there that I read that specifically. The point is that non QVL RAM may take many attempts for the motherboard to train it every POST and still end up with less than ideal timings etc.

Is it true that the BIOS has baked in settings for RAM kits on the QVL?

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Originally Posted by Ciber

Is it true that the BIOS has baked in settings for RAM kits on the QVL?

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Probably not, I'm not sure there is enough info available to the BIOS to know that it has plugged in exactly what was tested in the QVL.

Modern ram is very complex. The point of the QVL is just to find a combination that you know works, vs the machine I had built recently where the company building it took weeks to find some Vengeance 3200 ram that worked because all the stuff they could buy was V4.32 and not on the QVL list of any of the motherboards they stock, and none of the builds passed QA until they found some that was. I have no idea why they were so obsessed with using Vengeance ram, it's no good buying cheap if the stuff fundamentally doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

Probably not, I'm not sure there is enough info available to the BIOS to know that it has plugged in exactly what was tested in the QVL.

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I've read it in a couple of places but I'm not sure if it means the mobo has stored settings or how that would work or if it's even true about QVL RAM working better.

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Modern ram is very complex. The point of the QVL is just to find a combination that you know works, vs the machine I had built recently where the company building it took weeks to find some Vengeance 3200 ram that worked because all the stuff they could buy was V4.32 and not on the QVL list of any of the motherboards they stock, and none of the builds passed QA until they found some that was. I have no idea why they were so obsessed with using Vengeance ram, it's no good buying cheap if the stuff fundamentally doesn't work.

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I've spent some time trying to find RAM on the QVL to replace the RAM I'm struggling with while at the same time still not being sure it will POST/train quickly and reliably. Trolling through the QVL list felt like a kind of pointless miserable work. In the past (10+ years ago) you could safely ignore the QVL and just buy RAM that met the specification as the QVL would always be quickly out of date with RAM that is no longer available on it.

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Originally Posted by Ciber

OK maybe it wasn't there that I read that specifically. The point is that non QVL RAM may take many attempts for the motherboard to train it every POST and still end up with less than ideal timings etc.

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Again, where have you read that? I don't think that's the case at all. All DDR4 runs training, and it takes about the same time whatever RAM you put it - it just checks the actual return speed to account for tracing routes etc.

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Is it true that the BIOS has baked in settings for RAM kits on the QVL?

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This is more likely, but only at overclocked settings. Nothing to do with training. It won't be QVL list checking as much as knowing that if you set this CAS, that other timing, and this other timing then the RAM they tested was only stable if they adjusted this other setting/voltage so whever you use that same combination of timings (eg loading a profile) the same other settings will maybe change when left to auto.

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Originally Posted by Ciber

I've spent some time trying to find RAM on the QVL to replace the RAM I'm struggling with while at the same time still not being sure it will POST/train quickly and reliably.

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QVL has nothing to do with training. POST issues, well maybe, if only because you might buy some RAM that has a weird combination of timings and voltages that the motherboard doesn't know about and you're attempting to run it out of JEDEC spec. But that shouldn't be possible - you should be able to run at JEDEC timings/voltages regardless or your RAM is duff.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

QVL has nothing to do with training. POST issues, well maybe, if only because you might buy some RAM that has a weird combination of timings and voltages that the motherboard doesn't know about and you're attempting to run it out of JEDEC spec. But that shouldn't be possible - you should be able to run at JEDEC timings/voltages regardless or your RAM is duff.

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The problem is that JEDEC timings only go up to 2666MHz, so if you want even a Ryzen 3000 series supported speed like 3200 let alone a higher overclock one you need to get something supported.

The easiest way (and the first thing I did) was go to: https://uk.crucial.com/store/advisor
and it tells you what will work, or you can return it. Knowing it will work at all has to be a good start if you want to tune it :D

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

The problem is that JEDEC timings only go up to 2666MHz, so if you want even a Ryzen 3000 series supported speed like 3200 let alone a higher overclock one you need to get something supported.

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JEDEC goes up to PC3200 for Ryzen 3000. It's only 2666 for Intel I think

Zen was 2666MHZ,Zen+ was 2933MHZ and Zen2 is 3200MHZ.

Also just checking your kit is listed on the QVL is not enough,it needs to be a kit with the same memory chips. This is why I avoided Corsair as they source chips from Samsung,Micron and Hynix,and only some models they sell,stick to specific memory chips,ie,the expensive ones.

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

The easiest way (and the first thing I did) was go to: https://uk.crucial.com/store/advisor
and it tells you what will work, or you can return it. Knowing it will work at all has to be a good start if you want to tune it :D

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According to that my Crucial kit should work with my motherboard but it's taking a lot of messing with the many timings to make it run at it's rated speed of 3200. Just plugging in the 4 timings Crucial give does not work and their support offers no help other than I should return it to Amazon. That's a fail and I've lost a lot of faith in them. Every other kit I've ever bought has just worked at it's rated settings. Maybe that's just Ryzen but by now a big manufacturer should be able to supply kits that just work every time.

It was so easy with my i7 920 which has so much memory bandwidth in triple channel that timings didn't matter plus there were kits made specifically for it.

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Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH

Zen was 2666MHZ,Zen+ was 2933MHZ and Zen2 is 3200MHZ.

Also just checking your kit is listed on the QVL is not enough,it needs to be a kit with the same memory chips. This is why I avoided Corsair as they source chips from Samsung,Micron and Hynix,and only some models they sell,stick to specific memory chips,ie,the expensive ones.

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All the reasonably priced kits on my QVL seem to be Corsair but buying online you don't know if you're getting CMT16GX4M2C3600C18 ver4.31 or CMT16GX4M2C3600C18 ver3.31 or yet another version number and if you're getting Samsung b-die or something else. So buying off the QVL and avoiding Corsair isn't cheap or easy.

So buying RAM for Ryzen I don't know if it's best to buy QVL or something that's guaranteed samsung b-die or both. Finding guaranteed b-die RAM that's on the QVL seems impossible.

Alternatively get well priced b-die at a high speed ignoring the QVL and run it below it's rated speed with tight timing. One thing I have read from is that lots of kits won't run at their rated speed on Ryzen as that speed rating is on Intel so buy RAM that's faster than you want to run it.

I don't suppose you have another system to try the ram in? I had some DDR3 that was a bit iffy in an Asus motherboard, plugged it into a Gigabyte and one of the sticks failed to work at all. Turned out the Asus was managing to back the settings off until the stuff sort of worked, but really that ram was just faulty and needed to be sent back.

I think my X470-pro board has 16GB of Hyper-X in it. It just worked though, even with a 2600X and 2200G where 3200 ram is strictly speaking an overclock.

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Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix

I don't suppose you have another system to try the ram in? I had some DDR3 that was a bit iffy in an Asus motherboard, plugged it into a Gigabyte and one of the sticks failed to work at all. Turned out the Asus was managing to back the settings off until the stuff sort of worked, but really that ram was just faulty and needed to be sent back.

I think my X470-pro board has 16GB of Hyper-X in it. It just worked though, even with a 2600X and 2200G where 3200 ram is strictly speaking an overclock.

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I only have one PC that takes DDR4. Well, the wife's PC may take DDR4 but I doubt she will agree to it being opened even though I built it, it's very much hers! I think I've just lost out in the silicon lottery and need to try some different RAM. The trouble is I've been on the point of ordering some but the more I look into it the less I'm sure what's best to order. All this looking for B-die and QVL compatibility at a reasonable price has got me nowhere so far.

I feel exactly the same