Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
Hello
After countless hours on the web I will ask for help here.
Anybody could give me advice to undervoltage Haswell CPUs on a MSI board? Undervoltage as maintain stock performance and stability while running on lower voltage to reduce thermal output.
Now, the MSI voltage settings offer the following options:
CPU Core/Ring/GT Voltage mode: Auto, Adaptive Mode, Override Mode, Offset Mode, Adap.+Offset,Overr.+Offset
VCCIN Voltage: For example my i5-4570 stock auto value is 1.792V according to the BIOS
CPU Core Voltage: Under load my CPU VCORE in OCCT is 0.88V-0.9V, my VID is 1.15V
CPU Ring Voltage: Don't know
PCH 1.05 Voltage: Don't know
PCH 1.5 Voltage: Don't know
Anybody could suggest me the right settings to lower consumption/temperature while maintain stock speed and stability, please?
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
I don't know the foibles of haswell, but in other setups, the simplest thing is to use offset mode and apply a -ve offset to the CPU core. I'm guessing it's the plain 'offset mode'. Make this small, test at each step. I would leave the other settings alone at first, since CPU core will make the biggest difference, then I would apply very small changes to the others if I felt it was worth it - probably PCH voltage could go down a small amount depending on how demanding your storage etc. was working. Typically they will be set to auto or a fixed value - switching from auto sometimes gains you some savings already, then you can lower the fixed value further. I don't think they'll have much effect on thermal output though.
But isn't there some automatic energy saving mode you could use? I'm using an old gigabyte x58 based motherboard and i7 950, and I can't beat the automatic energy saving modes in terms of power draw at stock speeds, I just go manual in order to run a lower power overclock and reduce DPC latency.
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
TBH besides "CPU Core Voltage" all the rest have little (or really no discernible) effect on thermal output.
"CPU Ring Voltage" I did reduce on a chip which was defaulting to 1.200V, IIRC down to about 1.150V. My current chip defaults to 1.100V, I didn't bother lowering that, so you can see between the 2 chips huge gap of "CPU Ring Voltage".
"CPU Core/Ring/GT Voltage mode: Auto, Adaptive Mode, Override Mode, Offset Mode, Adap.+Offset,Overr.+Offset"
Out of those I'd probably opt for Adap.+Offset, this is on the basis on how my mobo works in that mode and what you want to achieve. On mine I can leave say "Final voltage" auto and set a +/- offset to have whichever effect on stock detected vcore.
Adaptive mode is default operation on Haswell, if you download Intel eXtreme Tuning utility on the right pane it gives info regarding voltages detected from UEFI and what mode for say CPU / Cache(ring).
HWiNFO also should give you loads of voltage info if your bios is not showing a reading by values what auto / stock detected are.
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
Well, thank you very much for the help till now.
Unfortunately the MSI boards doesn't really work like that. For example if I set 'Offset' only, I lose the option to set CPU Core and CPU Ring voltage. Only the VCCIN voltage setting remains and even if I set that from 1.905V default to 1.600V manual, it doesn't really changes the CPU VID under load.
Tested 'Adaptive + Offset' but then again I couldn't set minus voltages. So I was thinking maybe if I set a maximum CPU core voltage here, the system will not exceed that. Under load the system shown to like 1.15V so I set it to 1.125V. No change. BIOS shows this but in the system under load the VID jumped to 1.15V like if I haven't changed a thing.
Waiting further instructions :D
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonebreaker777
Unfortunately the MSI boards doesn't really work like that. For example if I set 'Offset' only, I lose the option to set CPU Core and CPU Ring voltage. Only the VCCIN voltage setting remains and even if I set that from 1.905V default to 1.600V manual, it doesn't really changes the CPU VID under load.
VCCIN won't change CPU VID or VCORE. VCCIN is the input voltage to CPU, then shared to components within CPU. The general rule is for whatever your VID/VCORE is VCCIN must be 0.4V-0.5V above it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonebreaker777
Tested 'Adaptive + Offset' but then again I couldn't set minus voltages. So I was thinking maybe if I set a maximum CPU core voltage here, the system will not exceed that. Under load the system shown to like 1.15V so I set it to 1.125V. No change. BIOS shows this but in the system under load the VID jumped to 1.15V like if I haven't changed a thing.
Waiting further instructions :D
Adaptive mode is known to over volt by some degree (stock mode is this), especially when CPU detects AVX instructions, were you using AVX in OCCT?
Downed a manual for your mobo, so when in OC section of UEFI your in Advanced mode?
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
All right. I have the 'Advanced Mode' in the OC menu.
In the 'Voltage Setting' section in the manual there is jack all mentioned about the other menu options under the 'Voltage Setting'.
So what, should I try 'Offset' mode? And just wait and see if it does have some effect?
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonebreaker777
In the 'Voltage Setting' section in the manual there is jack all mentioned about the other menu options under the 'Voltage Setting'.
Yep, useless, if it wasn't a digital copy I'd put it out in the recycle box.
http://i.imgur.com/Ic8AmEw.jpg
Above image is screenie of Z97i AC (manual is same for both so assuming UEFI is same), red line striked item you shouldn't get as you have H97i AC. Now in info / help panel does it give any explanation when you select "CPU Core/Ring/GT Voltage mode"
Going off topic here but UEFI seems pants if it applies same mode to all voltages, but then again not an OC board, in the Asus boards you can set CPU / Ring (cache) different modes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonebreaker777
So what, should I try 'Offset' mode? And just wait and see if it does have some effect?
As your lowering voltage pretty safe to test out the modes, TBH on OCN there are some posters giving like 1.55V to haswell chips for 24/7 OC, even when others are stating that's way to high.
*** update ***
Also downed a copy of the MSI Z97 Gaming 5 mobo manual as thought shared UEFI options will work the same, it does have more headings but explanations are pants again.
Quote:
CPU Core Voltage/ CPU Ring Voltage/ CPU GT Voltage [Auto]
Sets the CPU Core/ Ring/ GT voltages. If set to "Auto", BIOS will set these voltages automatically or you can set it manually.
After reading some more bits.
Override mode should be like my manual mode on my board. ie fixed voltage regardless of CPU load.
Adaptive mode is same as other boards. ie voltage variates depending on CPU loading.
When setting offset having you tried adjusting value by just holding down - key on numpad?
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
My screen looks nothing like that one of the Z97i AC. I guess that's the price for a non-Z motherboard. Beside the obvious lack of overclocking of K-class CPUs.
Also, thanks to your point earlier, I made the discovery that I was forcing my new ITX build with a LP cooler to try to cool a Haswell while using AVX. Which was futile as after 7-10min the temps. reached 95-98 °C. Now that I am using AIDA64 for stability testing, the temps are holding nice at 70-72 °C. With a R9 390 in a tiny ITX case :D Success!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gupsterg
...especially when CPU detects AVX instructions, were you using AVX in OCCT?...
EDIT:
Once I choose 'Offset' I loose all options to change voltage settings but the most irrelevant ones (If I go for 'Offset' I end up with VCCIN, PCH 1.05 & PCH 1.5 as the only interchangeable fields).
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
I'd be stopping stress testing straight away when hitting 95-98C. TBH highest I've ever let CPU get is 80C for a moment only whilst stress testing 5.0GHz.
Have a whirl of X264, current version as shared on OCN v2.06, Link:- https://mega.nz/#!ywAFDQQQ!hEQCeRXDK...tp8h0leb7ZHdJo
IIRC uses AVX but doesn't create high temps on Haswell core like OCCT / IBT / P95 (greater than v26.6).
I also use RealBench in stress mode as it stresses both CPU/GPU together but in your setup may lead to increased CPU temps from GPU dumping heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonebreaker777
Once I choose 'Offset' I lose all options to change voltage settings but the most irrelevant ones (If I go for 'Offset' I end up with VCCIN, PCH 1.05 & PCH 1.5 as the only interchangeable fields).
Settings "VCCIN, PCH 1.05 & PCH 1.5" won't help thermals.
Forget "Offset" mode for a moment I think, as you stated not possible to set - offset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonebreaker777
Tested 'Adaptive + Offset' but then again I couldn't set minus voltages. So I was thinking maybe if I set a maximum CPU core voltage here, the system will not exceed that. Under load the system shown to like 1.15V so I set it to 1.125V. No change. BIOS shows this but in the system under load the VID jumped to 1.15V like if I haven't changed a thing.
Why not try value less than 1.125V in just "Adaptive Mode"? just account for the overvolting your experiencing.
Re: Undervoltage Haswell on MSI boards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gupsterg
Why not try value less than 1.125V in just "Adaptive Mode"? just account for the overvolting your experiencing.
Ok, I had a few free hours while doing other things as well, so this is what I have.
Adaptive Mode - BIOS Vcore - 1.100 V
In windows under no load - 0.718V-0.750V VID
In windows under load - 1.123V VID
Adaptive Mode - BIOS Vcore - 1.000 V
In windows under no load - 0.718V-0.750V VID
In windows under load - 1.123V VID
Adaptive Mode - BIOS Vcore - 0.800 V
In windows under no load - 0.718V-0.750V VID
In windows under load - 1.123V VID
Offset Mode - BIOS Vcore - Auto (I guess, no change allowed)
In windows under no load - 1.092V-1.095V VID
In windows under load - 1.094V VID
Auto Mode - BIOS Vcore - Auto (no change made)
In windows under no load - 1.092V-1.095V VID
In windows under load - 1.094V VID
So I guess I have two choices. Either lower consumption & thermal output under load (Offset or Auto as both modes kept the VID under load lower as Adaptive) or lower consumption & thermal output in idle (Adaptive mode kept the idle VID a lot lower).
EDIT: I am baffled with MSI settings...see below
Adaptive Mode - BIOS Vcore - Auto (no change made)
In windows under no load - 1.092V-1.095V VID
In windows under load - 1.094V VID
