Buildzoid's thoughts on current X470 motherboards

[MrJim]

If you're thinking of building a Ryzen refresh system and using an X470 motherboard (as I am), you might want to take the time to watch this video. It is quite a long video, but coming from the perspective of an extreme overclocker (and someone who obviously knows his stuff where motherboard design in general, and VRM design in particular are concerned), it's quite an eye-opener. His opinions on Asus low & mid-range boards are quite surprising!

[Biscuit]

Hmm... doesn't seem like the manufacturers are really putting the effort in right now.

I haver to say all these VRM "Heatsinks" really boil my urine. It's surely more expensive to repeatedly design and manufacture different shaped slabs of aluminium that have a questionable performance metrics, instead of having a standard fin design that actually increases the surface area that's exposed to air flow. I can totally understand why all motherboards don't go the route of having fin and pipe designs of days gone by, as mosfet technology has moved on, but at least put something functional on the damn things.

[Kumagoro]

Nice to see Kermit the frog has found something to do after the Muppets.

[MrJim]

Hmm... doesn't seem like the manufacturers are really putting the effort in right now.

I haver to say all these VRM "Heatsinks" really boil my urine. It's surely more expensive to repeatedly design and manufacture different shaped slabs of aluminium that have a questionable performance metrics, instead of having a standard fin design that actually increases the surface area that's exposed to air flow. I can totally understand why all motherboards don't go the route of having fin and pipe designs of days gone by, as mosfet technology has moved on, but at least put something functional on the damn things.

Definitely agree with you there. It seems to be a case of (questionable) style over substance. I miss the days when motherboards had proper finned copper heat-sinks. It's ironic that the only motherboard he looked at with a proper finned heat-sink is one that needed it least, due to the high quality VRM components.

[Firejack]

My Asus Prime X470-Pro turned up today. Having spent a lot of time watching the reviews of tech tubers, comparing the specs in a spreadsheet and reading the reviews of various users. I decided it was probably the case I wasn't going to find a perfect motherboard within budget so I went with the one that ticked the most boxes. Intel LAN, USB Type-C, ALC1220 audio, PWN fans, quality VRM and good BIOS support.

Only had a quick peak. Looks a great bit of hardware. Shame I don't have a window on my case its such a nice understated design. Will have to have a closer look at the heatsink for the VRM, that Buildzoid point out. I should be good for cooling the VRMs as I have 2x 140mm fans at the rear/top top/back positions of my Define S. Don't plan on mad overclocking of my 2700X. Feels solidly built. Hope that a good sign for reliability.

All will be revealed when I rebuild my system next week I guess

[Kumagoro]

From what he says it sounds like the motherboard manufacturers are telling lies about the number of vrms. Where they actually say it's 8+2 but really it's 4+2.

What I don't get is how come they have become so much more expensive yet there is hardly anything on the board nowadays.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The reference AMD VRM is 4+2 phase - its more important to know what components are used. A lot of the 8 phase VRMs used are doubled up 4 phase designs.

[Kumagoro]

I wonder if there is any benefit to have a fake 8+2 over a 4+2. Does having more components dissipate the heat better or is any benefit negligible because they tend to use crappier components than your standard 4+2?

[MrJim]

I wonder if there is any benefit to have a fake 8+2 over a 4+2. Does having more components dissipate the heat better or is any benefit negligible because they tend to use crappier components than your standard 4+2?

A question similar to yours was answered on Gamer's Nexus (starts at 1:50):

https://youtu.be/b17ccXikeJ0?t=1m50s

[Kumagoro]

Thanks for taking the time to provide a link.

After watching it though I don't think it is talking about what I mentioned above, it was more why/when do you need more phases.

I am just curious as to whether this doubled up fake 8+2 is any better than the usual 4+2. If their is such a thing as a usual 4+2, how much can the quality of that vary?

[DanceswithUnix]

Thanks for taking the time to provide a link.

After watching it though I don't think it is talking about what I mentioned above, it was more why/when do you need more phases.

I am just curious as to whether this doubled up fake 8+2 is any better than the usual 4+2. If their is such a thing as a usual 4+2, how much can the quality of that vary?

Devil will be in the details. Cheap boards like the B350 one we just got at work use a 4+2 VRM. If you double up on the fets and chokes, then you should spread the load over twice the components so they don't get as stressed. I would expect a genuine 8 phase to give better ripple, two phases firing one after the other would give a smoother output than two fets triggering at the exact same time, but then if you are spreading the heat over more fets then perhaps you can drive those fets at higher switching speed to improve output stability, but perhaps with twice the fets there would be pressure to use cheaper ones that generate more heat than expensive fets. I doubt you can make a general rule, just measure what the result looks like.

I guess all this is one of the reasons that ITX AM4 boards aren't cheap.