Another Terminator Salvation Thread

[[GSV]Trig]

Soooo...

Went to see this lastnite, had already been told it was crap, ok so the person that told me was the missus' friend and we have different tastes in films but she said it was better than Wolverine so, Terminator it was...

I was pleasantly suprised, it was going really well, the film was good..

Until the last 20 or so minutes....

What in the hell!!!

For those that havent seen it I wont spoil it but, it goes down hill when John Connor goes to go off to Skynet and is talking to his missus...

From there on it its shocking..



However, I did notice in the credits at the ned it says in loving memory of two people, I'm thinking the two people that died were in charge, and they died before the end of the film....

[Knoxville]

I wasn't a fan to be fair, better than wolverine definitely but after John Connor went awol and Helena Bonham Carter started doing her architect impression I lost all interest tbh

[blade-uk]

I loved Wolverine and am looking forward to going to see this, i thought T3 was a big let down, and this without arnie will be different but im a big fan of Bale.

Andy

[staffsMike]

Well I said I would reserve judgement until I saw it.. I'm still not sure what I thought of it to be honest.

It wasn't completely terrible but not brilliant. It felt a bit disconnected, spotty.. and at the end my real question was.. what was the point?

I agree with the last 20 minutes stuff as well, that just felt like it was handled all wrong, suffered from a lack of anything really interesting happening.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well I said I would reserve judgement until I saw it.. I'm still not sure what I thought of it to be honest.

It wasn't completely terrible but not brilliant. It felt a bit disconnected, spotty.. and at the end my real question was.. what was the point?

I agree with the last 20 minutes stuff as well, that just felt like it was handled all wrong, suffered from a lack of anything really interesting happening.

Me and my mate just saw it and agree entirely with you! It had the potential to be great if they actually had a more coherent story and TBH the original ending which was leaked would have been more interesting.

Also the way the terminators acted did not seem right at all. In the first three films either the terminators quickly killed their targets or toyed with them if it was to their advantage.The terminators in the film motsly just beat their targets up - you would think an efficient killing machine would be much more dangerous in hand to hand combat.

[staffsMike]

I just read about the alternative ending.. I think I prefer (however stupid) what they did in the film. Both sound really naff to me though.

The more I think about it.. the more I think.. where are the frickin' lasers!? Why isn't it a bit later on..
why aren't we seeing the time travelling business.. why is this film so pointless?

Visually it's absolutely brilliant I will not take that away from it. I think Bale is a good fit for the part and played it very well but it just leaves me cold.
In terms of adding to the story as a whole.. has it added anything at all?

I think it should have been set later.. with lasers, and some sort of flashback story to what is going on in this movie because frankly.. 95% of the "story" was unecessary.

Write something interesting for T5 please, keep the nice effects.

[ixos]

Looking forward to seeing the film. I will see it on dvd though as i don't get out much! lol

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I just read about the alternative ending.. I think I prefer (however stupid) what they did in the film. Both sound really naff to me though.

The more I think about it.. the more I think.. where are the frickin' lasers!? Why isn't it a bit later on..
why aren't we seeing the time travelling business.. why is this film so pointless?

Visually it's absolutely brilliant I will not take that away from it. I think Bale is a good fit for the part and played it very well but it just leaves me cold.
In terms of adding to the story as a whole.. has it added anything at all?

I think it should have been set later.. with lasers, and some sort of flashback story to what is going on in this movie because frankly.. 95% of the "story" was unecessary.

Write something interesting for T5 please, keep the nice effects.

***Warning! Major Spoilers Ahead!***

I think the film is set relatively early on in the war before the advent of the energy weapons seen later on in 2029 as the film is set in 2018. Also this means that the resistance still has access to many weapons too. The fact that the Huey,OH6 and A10 are used makes sense since they are probably the simplest to maintain and hardiest helicopters and planes the former US armed forces have. However I was a bit surprised that there were no Cobra attack helicopters though.

I assume in 2029 most of the heavy human weapons are destroyed though attrition though and perhaps Skynet forces have endured heavy losses too as I believe in T1 and T2 it is losing the war and this is why it has had to send back the infiltration units in time. The fact that Skynet developed time travel technlogy indicates this as if it was winning the war there would be no need to do so. This is also why we see Skynet in such pitched battles too.

Also in this film I assume the resistance is a much smaller entity encompassing mostly US groups of which many are the remnants of the military.Skynet Central probably is the main node of Skynet in the future but one of many spread throughout the world and hence desytoying it would probably be more of a major setback than its end. However if McG and co are implying this to be Skynet itself it would make no sense at all TBH as the T800 is just in prototyoe stage and the T1000 and T-X themselves are probably not even in existence. The terminators we mostly see are the T600 and T700.

If you look at the film carefully when Connor is relaying his broadcasts it seems many people thorughout the world are listening and even the military commanders are dismissive of "his" resistance. I assume that throughout the world the remaining military forces are performing mostly local operations and there seems to be little worldwide cooperation of the military and civilian forces.

Hence Conner IMHO actually is the guy who rallied all the worlds remaining human military forces and civilians together. Instead of local action there is a more coordinated worldwide effort to take on Skynet everywhere. This why the original ending would have made much more sense as it was the notion of Conner not Conner himself which was important - he was the voice which kept humanity united in its fight. As long as he existed in people's minds and imaginations there was some hope.

I assume with Conner in command it this means that Skynet's global nodes start getting destroyed and overwhelmed one by one and in the end it relocates itself to Cheyenne mountain as this is the most secure base it has left and can be better defended by a heavy concentration of Skynet units. This indicates that even Skynet forces are spread thin and you can see this in the future. As far as I know the final assault on this faculty is what destroys Skynet and happens in T2:3D which was also made by Cameron.
However another thing which McG and co imply is that the US is free from Skynet which again makes no sense as it contradicts T2:3D which is Canon.
I assume most of Skynet's local control is diminished in North America though with the destruction of Skynet Central as this would make more sense.

I personally think that the last section of the movie should have been done much better and seemed a bit tacked on TBH.

[staffsMike]

SPOLIERS AGAIN FOLKS (personally I avoided the threads once the film was released lol)

Sorry, I got why there were no lasers etc.. of couse it was very early on in the war hence Conners apparent lack of official power but my point was, in T1 and 2 (and 3 I suppose given the TX's weapons) we are promised frickin lasers!! The loss of these makes any movie post judgement day (the event not the movie) a little lacking, although strangely fun watching them struggle with their measely weaponary and awesome looking A10's

The idea of it being his voice and not him just doesn't sit right with me. It sounds too much like Equilibrium and perhaps Aeon Flux, and would have seemed like a total cop out to me. I prefer that it's still him and that he's hardcore enough to keep going.. something Jack Bauer would be proud of I'm sure lol

Anyway this is where I come to my own question about what was the point, what has it added to the overarching story that couldn't be solved with 20 minutes worth of flashbacks etc.. in a movie that has frickin LAAASERRRRS!!!

How Reese comes into the picture is obviously the major plot of this movie and I really don't care about that. Think about X-men, would anyone actually want to see an hour and a half of how.. storm came to be, or beast.. no.. Just give us a flash back. Wolverine was just an hour and half of a very thinnly stretched out plot and this is how salvation feels to me. Oh and the poor ending of course.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

SPOLIERS AGAIN FOLKS (personally I avoided the threads once the film was released lol)

Sorry, I got why there were no lasers etc.. of couse it was very early on in the war hence Conners apparent lack of official power but my point was, in T1 and 2 (and 3 I suppose given the TX's weapons) we are promised frickin lasers!! The loss of these makes any movie post judgement day (the event not the movie) a little lacking, although strangely fun watching them struggle with their measely weaponary and awesome looking A10's

The idea of it being his voice and not him just doesn't sit right with me. It sounds too much like Equilibrium and perhaps Aeon Flux, and would have seemed like a total cop out to me. I prefer that it's still him and that he's hardcore enough to keep going.. something Jack Bauer would be proud of I'm sure lol

Anyway this is where I come to my own question about what was the point, what has it added to the overarching story that couldn't be solved with 20 minutes worth of flashbacks etc.. in a movie that has frickin LAAASERRRRS!!!

How Reese comes into the picture is obviously the major plot of this movie and I really don't care about that. Think about X-men, would anyone actually want to see an hour and a half of how.. storm came to be, or beast.. no.. Just give us a flash back. Wolverine was just an hour and half of a very thinnly stretched out plot and this is how salvation feels to me. Oh and the poor ending of course.

***More Spoilers!!***

I wonder if this film will to the new Terminator films like the Phantom Menace was to the new Star Wars films? Hopefully at least a sequel will be made so we can find out as long as it has frickin Lasers in it!

I personally think that the movie had potential to be good but it need to flow better IMHO and fit in with first two movies more evenly. If anything it would have made more sense that Marcus had been damaged in some way early in the film and had the Skynet control remove and his core orders corrupted as a result. Nobody even in the film(and even Marcus himself) seems to question his amnesia that much. His realisation that he is a terminator and one that is sent to kill Conner should have happened earlier on and it could had led to some sort of conflict of interests just as Arnie had in T3. In fact it would have been better if they made him an i950 instead and this would have made him virtually human too.

The main point which needs clarifying is whether Skynet Central is Skynet or just a major node of it in North America. If Skynet is now destroyed it means it will never send terminators back since the T800 shown is a prototype. Sure the remaining robots will still fight since they are programmed to do so but without Skynet making the decisions they won't be able to change any grand strategic tactics any more.

Hence I can assume Skynet is still around and will be destroyed in the final assault on the Cheyenne Mountain complex in T2:3D!

[staffsMike]

It left me with the impression that they had pulled one leg off a millipede and there was lots more fighting to come, including time travel etc..

I mean if they never get to point of creating time travel, wouldn't saving Reese be pointless anyway.. Conner will just cease to exist lol

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

***More Spoilers!***


I would have done it this way:

1.)Intro to Marcus pre-judgement day
2.) Move to present day and Marcus awakes dazed after resistance attack and seems to have amnesia. Direct Skynet control and his CPU are damaged(orders corrupted). Skynet is not pleased.
3.) Marcus escapes battle on foot.During another confrontation with HK gets saved by Reese and co. However his transponder begins to start functioning again due to a jolt and so Skynet tracks them. However Skynet cannot do anything else as he still has serious damage. Hence it is unaware he is with Reese and only wants to recapture their advanced infiltration prototype.
4.) Reese gets captured but Marcus manages to escape. Cue scene at node where Skynet identifies Reese and imprisons him.
5.) Conner and co introduced during another battle.
6.) Conner discovers existance of T800.
7.) Marcus saves Conner and discovers he is a terminator. Conner discovers that he was travelling with a person called Reese. Cue all sorts of issues Marcus has with this realisation. Macus attempts self termination but is not fully sucessful.Conner takes an incapicitated Marcus back to his base to decide his fate. Transponder coveniently gets damaged again.
8.) Cue local resistance HQ and their main attack stuff. Reports of some key bases being destroyed from the inside,ie, the first sucessful T800 infiltrations.
9.)Conner has to make the decision whether to trust Marcus or not.
10.)Tries to tell HQ about humans at Skynet main node but HQ don't believe him especially when they find out about Marcus.Tells Cooner to destroy Marcus. Relieves Conner of his command for neligence,ie, believing Marcus.
11.)Trusts Marcus and goes AWOL to find Reese. Cue Catherine going emo as she is carrying his unborn child and says it is a trap.
12.)Attack on Skynet node occurs
13.)Marcus goes back to Skynet and the latter is surprised to find that Conner is with him.
11.)Cue efforts to fight Conner and Marcus while attack happens
12.)Attack starts going badly for the resistance as Skynet has more units stationed than initially expected
13.)Marcus gets separated from Conner and Reese. Cue battle with T800 who tries to terminate Conner and Reese.Father and son work together to defeat it.
14.)Skynet tries to reason with Marcus but he will not have any of it
15.)Final battle in the terminator factory
16.)The resistance orders a general retreat.
17.)However Conner manages to contact them and a rescue is attempted.
18.)Marcus stays behind to destroy the node and hence enables Conner and Reese to escape. Conner manages to get some key data about the T800 and how to reprogramme it.
19.)The main Skynet node is destroyed. The resistance uses this to clear a large amount of North America due to the disruption. However a large area around Cheyenne Mountain is still impregnable and a war of attrition starts as neither have enough forces to totally destroy each other.

Conner starts to rally the rest of the world against Skynet's global forces.

However Conner realises(as in the second and third film) that the difference between Humans and Terminators is not so clear cut and the battle continues.

Of course have the relevant character intros and flashbacks where required.

[Knoxville]

Forget the lazers, someone explain to me how a cyborg comprised mainly of an incredibly heavy alloy not only manages to "wash ashore" but swim away from connors base camp later in the film....

[staffsMike]

Forget the lazers, someone explain to me how a cyborg comprised mainly of an incredibly heavy alloy not only manages to "wash ashore" but swim away from connors base camp later in the film....

Big cojones...

[ACiD303]

Or how a helicopter manages to escape and fly away from a nuclear blast. Stupidly set off by Conner in close proximity.

A10's are also dogs of planes - robust, but not agile or maneoverable as such.

Screw it, it's a film. I went in with low expectations, so it wasn't as bad as I thought. The best thing about this movie was the sound in the first 20 odd minutes.

[staffsMike]

A10's are also dogs of planes - robust, but not agile or maneoverable as such.

This I know well but they are lovely looking thiings, suit the movie very well.