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Thread: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Ah, didn't end up posting back here.

    It's a reasonable film. It's not "The Hobbit".

    There's far too much messed with. They've introduced bits of the background material from the LOTR appendices, which I think is fair enough, but they've done it fairly randomly so everything is out of timeline. And there some stuff that's completely made up *AND* in direct contradiction of Tolkein's own history, which riled me beyond belief.

    It's a shame, because some of the bits of The Hobbit that did get into the film (like the dwarves exuberant, but ultimately perfect - cleaning up) were really well done.

    But yeah, films 2 and 3 will have to be fairly well padded, particularly if they're going to be 2.5hrs or more as well. Can't say I'm hugely impressed, over all...

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Ah, didn't end up posting back here.

    It's a reasonable film. It's not "The Hobbit".

    There's far too much messed with. They've introduced bits of the background material from the LOTR appendices, which I think is fair enough, but they've done it fairly randomly so everything is out of timeline. And there some stuff that's completely made up *AND* in direct contradiction of Tolkein's own history, which riled me beyond belief.

    It's a shame, because some of the bits of The Hobbit that did get into the film (like the dwarves exuberant, but ultimately perfect - cleaning up) were really well done.

    But yeah, films 2 and 3 will have to be fairly well padded, particularly if they're going to be 2.5hrs or more as well. Can't say I'm hugely impressed, over all...
    i thought as much..

    Im not a big Tolkien fan ,but its sad to see him tarnish what he achieved.

    First the world doesnt end and now this - ho hum

    m

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Maybe this is how the world ends melon? Everything gets dumbed down and CGI'd up until it all turns to an endless grey gloop presided over by lawyers.

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    Maybe this is how the world ends melon? Everything gets dumbed down and CGI'd up until it all turns to an endless grey gloop presided over by lawyers.
    Or maybe Jackson decided to screw them over by doing what they wanted to make a point and get paid in the process ?

    Wheres Jesse Ventura when you need him ?



    m

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    I found the flim really enjoyable, so has some of my Anime friends, one or two have watched 3 or so times and I have watched it twice so far.

    Hoping to watch it again on the Projector later tonight or tomorrow, don't know what parts are true to the book or not, but I found it all very well done. Only thing that riled me that how easy the Drawfs got kicked out their keep, it's like they didn't put up a fight or anything.

    No seige engines or anything?

    /Coming from a 40k background.

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by IronWarrior View Post
    ...Only thing that riled me that how easy the Drawfs got kicked out their keep, it's like they didn't put up a fight or anything.

    No seige engines or anything? ...
    Tolkein doesn't mention seige weaponry much at all, tbh. There wasn't a lot of open warfare in Middle Earth at the time of the Hobbit or LOTR (although it was by no means a peaceful time), and I guess seige weapons wouldn't make much sense. Also, why would you have seige weapons *in* a keep? They're design to sit outside a keep firing in, surely

    The other thing is that the Lonely Mountain was more of a palace than a fortress. The dwarves were on good terms with the elves and men of the area (that bit about Thranduil not helping out and the dwarves holding a massive grudge against the elves because of it? Completely made up by Jackson for the film. Not even a mention of it in the book). Goblins rarely raided as far as the lonely mountain, and if they did it would be in small packs, with maybe a few Wargs - not the kind of thing you'd need seige weapons against. So this was a large, well appointed palace a long way from any enemies and with friendly groups living all around - they had no real reason to be prepared for battle.

    In the book - Thorin tells the tale to Bilbo during the unexpected party - Smaug comes out of the north and lands on top of the mountain. The dwarves rush out of the main gate to repel him and defend their home, but Smaug ambushes them. Smaug is described as being "a most specially greedy, strong and wicked worm". I doubt there was much the dwarves could've done, even if they'd been prepared for a dragon attack. Dragons are both rarer, and a lot more dangerous, than subsequent fantasy settings have made them (after all, I don't believe that any dragons appear in LOTR at all, despite that telling the story of one of the great wars of Middle Earth...).

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Tolkein doesn't mention seige weaponry much at all, tbh. There wasn't a lot of open warfare in Middle Earth at the time of the Hobbit or LOTR (although it was by no means a peaceful time), and I guess seige weapons wouldn't make much sense. Also, why would you have seige weapons *in* a keep? They're design to sit outside a keep firing in, surely

    The other thing is that the Lonely Mountain was more of a palace than a fortress. The dwarves were on good terms with the elves and men of the area (that bit about Thranduil not helping out and the dwarves holding a massive grudge against the elves because of it? Completely made up by Jackson for the film. Not even a mention of it in the book). Goblins rarely raided as far as the lonely mountain, and if they did it would be in small packs, with maybe a few Wargs - not the kind of thing you'd need seige weapons against. So this was a large, well appointed palace a long way from any enemies and with friendly groups living all around - they had no real reason to be prepared for battle.

    In the book - Thorin tells the tale to Bilbo during the unexpected party - Smaug comes out of the north and lands on top of the mountain. The dwarves rush out of the main gate to repel him and defend their home, but Smaug ambushes them. Smaug is described as being "a most specially greedy, strong and wicked worm". I doubt there was much the dwarves could've done, even if they'd been prepared for a dragon attack. Dragons are both rarer, and a lot more dangerous, than subsequent fantasy settings have made them (after all, I don't believe that any dragons appear in LOTR at all, despite that telling the story of one of the great wars of Middle Earth...).
    Why are they so rare if their lot more dangerous ?

    m

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    Why are they so rare if their lot more dangerous ?

    m
    Dragons were extremely powerful - servants of Morgoth (like Balrogs and indeed Sauron), but more powerful than Balrogs and at least as powerful as Sauron. And like Balrogs, they were rare as most of them were slain in the first and second ages of the world (Hobbit and LOTR were set in the third age of the world).

    So basically - they're rare because they are so powerful.

    In the third age, elves dwarves and men had lost most of their power - a strong dragon, not even all the elves in middle earth would go up against (unless they absoloutly had to).

    Butuz
    Last edited by Butuz; 16-01-2013 at 09:11 PM.

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    Dragons were extremely powerful - servants of Morgoth (like Balrogs and indeed Sauron), but more powerful than Balrogs and at least as powerful as Sauron. And like Balrogs, they were rare as most of them were slain in the first and second ages of the world (Hobbit and LOTR were set in the third age of the world).

    So basically - they're rare because they are so powerful.

    In the third age, elves dwarves and men had lost most of their power - a strong dragon, not even all the elves in middle earth would go up against (unless they absoloutly had to).

    Butuz
    Now this sounds a lot more interesting to me than the Hobbit..


    Ancalagon: (Sindarin: rushing jaws from anc 'jaw', alag 'impetuous'[2])

    The Dark Lord bred Ancalagon during the First Age to be the greatest and mightiest of all dragons, and the first of the winged ‘fire-drakes’. He arose from the inferno pits of Angband like a storm of wind and fire as a last defence of the realm of Dor Daedeloth. Near the end of the War of Wrath that pitted Morgoth’s hosts against the Host of the Valar, Morgoth sent Ancalagon leading a fleet of winged dragons from the fortress of Angband to destroy the Dark Lord’s enemies. So powerful was the assault of the dragon fleet that the Host of the Valar was driven back from the gates of Angband onto the ashy plain of Anfauglith.

    From the west, Eärendil 'The Blessed' in his powerfully hallowed Elven airborne ship Vingilot, aided by Thorondor and the great Eagles, dueled with Ancalagon and the dragon fleet for an entire day. However, Eärendil at length prevailed, casting Ancalagon upon the triple-peaked towers of Thangorodrim, destroying both dragon and towers. With his last and mightiest defender slain, Morgoth was soon utterly defeated and made captive, ending the War of Wrath.

    Ancalagon the Black is considered to have been the greatest dragon of Middle-earth, undoubtedly the largest, and is often referred to as the ‘father of the winged-drakes’. He was so large that his wings were able to blot out the light of the sun, even from afar, and his body was able to crush the volcanic Thangorodrim, the highest peaks in Beleriand. Like all other Urulóki, Ancalagon breathed fire, which was said to be hotter than any other known flame.

    In 1977, an extinct genus of worms from the Cambrian Burgess Shale was named Ancalagon, inspired by Tolkien's dragon.[3] -wikipedia

    m

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    reason it's going to be 3 is for the moneys!

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    So, the official line is supposedly that Peter Jackson saw JRRT before he died and Tolkien told him about story arcs that he did not put in the book....

    Hmmm
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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    So, the official line is supposedly that Peter Jackson saw JRRT before he died and Tolkien told him about story arcs that he did not put in the book....

    Hmmm
    Any proof of this? Anyone could make that up so Jackson could be doing it instead of admitting the trilogy is fueled by greed.
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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    So, the official line is supposedly that Peter Jackson saw JRRT before he died and Tolkien told him about story arcs that he did not put in the book....

    Hmmm
    JRR died in spetember 1973


    jackson born october 1961

    so an 81 year old author spills his secrets to an 11 year old new zealand boy.....

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    ... Tolkien told him about story arcs that he did not put in the book....
    Including subplots about characters that are specifically mentioned later in the book as already being dead?!

    I call shenannigans

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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    Er, well that's why you should never post second-hand info

    he didn't talk to him directly, it was 125 pages of notes.

    http://screenrant.com/peter-jackson-...y-benk-188086/
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    Re: Why IS the Hobbit going to be three films? Your input:

    He spoke to him from beyond the grave? Spooky...

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