So The New Dr Who

[tiggerai]

Right, but they didnt NEED to change the genders to drum up discussion and media coverage. Definitely helps matter in some sense, but it's far from necessary.

Apologies I haven't been around for a while, but is there another thread discussing the Pros/Cons of a female doctor elsewhere on Hexus? That wasn't fuelled by media speculation?

If there is, then my mistake.
If there isn't then yes, its obviously necessary as the discussion wouldn't be had if there wasn't a catalyst. And these discussions, in this day and age, NEED to be had as the assumption is then that because there were 12 male doctors, that the 13th would also be male.

[azrael-]

A quick Google shows that Firefly was cancelled. I guess that programme was utter dross?
Another quick Google shows that Eastenders, Corronation Street and Neighbours are all still going... they must be STUNNING, right?

Sorry for going OT here, but I've recently watched the first two episodes of a show called Scorpion. It seemed to have pretty good credentials. For one it's executive-produced by Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, who've been involved with a lot of good shows (and movies, for that matter). NEVER have I seen a load of crap like this. Yet somehow it has managed to stay on the air for 4 (four!) seasons so far. If you want to know how bad this show is, then just read a couple of the reviews of the pilot episode. They really hit the nail on the head.

Just needed to get that off my chest. Back on topic now.

[Biscuit]

Apologies I haven't been around for a while, but is there another thread discussing the Pros/Cons of a female doctor elsewhere on Hexus? That wasn't fuelled by media speculation?

If there is, then my mistake.
If there isn't then yes, its obviously necessary as the discussion wouldn't be had if there wasn't a catalyst. And these discussions, in this day and age, NEED to be had as the assumption is then that because there were 12 male doctors, that the 13th would also be male.

Whats wrong with that assumption?

Still not seeing why its necessary.

[spacein_vader]

Fresh ideas, yes.
Jumping on what appears to be yet another bandwaggon for the sake of appeasing fans isn't what I'd call fresh... and THAT is the concern - Not what they've done, but their reasoning behind it.
If they pull it off, great. But the fact that people are suddenly taking an interest in the show *just because* The Doctor is now a woman is exactly what the show does NOT need...


Key, yes of course. But not the major (and also minor) plot points, as well as miraculous fixed points in the continuum around which the whole season revolves!
They're supposed to be ordinary people through whose eyes we get to experience The Doctor and the universe(s), not secret megaheroes who rapidly rise to the lofty heights of near-Timelords.


Yes, and see that final comment about how it's not been a good thing.
Some have been great stories in their own right... but not great Doctor Who stories.


But why is she HERE?
Is it because she's a great actress, or because she's a woman... or because she's a woman and worked with blokie on Broadchurch?
Incidentally, I've only heard of Broadchurch because the Mrs watches it and it looked dreary as heck... Not selling me on the idea so far.


Yes, but they were also always sidekicks, or rather 'assistants', as they used to be known. NOT frontline episode leads and NOT romantic interests. Heck, most didn't even get families, much less bring them all along on their travels.
It's the Doctor Who show, not the Amy And Rory Show!! Like I said, more than once we started to wonder why The Doctor is even around, still...


No, it doesn't.
It is happening a lot these days, but it worked back when Ellen Ripley, Dana Scully and Sarah Connor were on-screen. It kind-of worked with the likes of Buffy and Firefly was FAR better, but now it's just waving it in the audience's face. It's standing up and being counted as showcasing strong, independent women... just like every other show.


They've swung the other way, perhaps... but the difference is that they've stayed there too long and it's gotten boring. Formulaic, even, especially with Steven Moffatt at the helm.


GB2 trailed one hand a bit too far into slapstick... It went the way of Blues Brothers 2000. GB-Reboot went all-out silliness.


A quick Google shows that Firefly was cancelled. I guess that programme was utter dross?
Another quick Google shows that Eastenders, Corronation Street and Neighbours are all still going... they must be STUNNING, right?

I think I've done you the disservice of making assumptions on your motives I previous posts, I agree with a lot of this post.

Like you I hope the new runner improves the series, and that it had been in a rut for a while and gotten boring. That may even have been the motive for having a female doctor, Moffat has already covered off young/old/cool male doctors.

I will clarify my point about popularity though. I'm not saying it makes the show/film good or bad. I am saying that it is the single overriding factor about if a franchise continues. So if the trend for female leads had become overbearing they'd not be watched which would lead to them not being renewed and similar new projects not being commissioned.

[peterb]

Whats wrong with that assumption?

Still not seeing why its necessary.

Well, if a Time Lord can regenerate into either gender, then on the basis of probability, its probably long overdue - 1 in 13 is a pretty long run of male-to-male regenerations.

[Biscuit]

Well, if a Time Lord can regenerate into either gender, then on the basis of probability, its probably long overdue - 1 in 13 is a pretty long run of male-to-male regenerations.

Genuine question, was it ever previously mentioned that the time lord can regenerate into either gender?
Only way this point really has any relevance, is if it was.
In which case, I completely agree, what have they been playing at?

[azrael-]

Genuine question, was it ever previously mentioned that the time lord can regenerate into either gender?
Only way this point really has any relevance, is if it was.
In which case, I completely agree, what have they been playing at?

Well, like I mentioned previously, there's the Master/Missy thing, which has been running through the Capaldi seasons.

[Ttaskmaster]

It seemed to have pretty good credentials. For one it's executive-produced by Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, who've been involved with a lot of good shows (and movies, for that matter). NEVER have I seen a load of crap like this.

Never thought I'd watch a show that had Michael Bay's name all over it... the god of all things bad about Transformers movies... and yet, Black Sails was utterly fantastic!!

I think I've done you the disservice of making assumptions on your motives I previous posts, I agree with a lot of this post.

'Sokay, just wanted to clarify...

So if the trend for female leads had become overbearing they'd not be watched which would lead to them not being renewed and similar new projects not being commissioned.

There are many things that are overbearing, yet people continue to watch them mindlessly - X Factor, Love Island, Britain's Next Top Model/Hairdresser/Baker/Chef/Landscape Artist/Young Plumber (yes, really)... so much already done to death, yet churn it out and someone will watch it.

Genuine question, was it ever previously mentioned that the time lord can regenerate into either gender?

I believe it was either outright stated, or strongly alluded to that they could, but that The Doctor has not, as yet...

In which case, I completely agree, what have they been playing at?

Again, why should they, just because he could?
That's what we're afraid of - That they're doing it to fill some kind of quota and tick some kind of box, rather than there being any reason behind it... including the best reason, which would be no reason at all.... so long as it's not all about The Doctor being a woman now.

It's one thing for River to be all grown up and announce that she's going to wear lots of sweaters. It's another for The Doctor, supposedly above such primitive concepts as gender, to then spend a season making references to her gender. If they go down this road, they write off the show.

[sammyc]

Some people have a LOT going on in their lives and this is what they watch to unwind. So when this too crawls up its own backside, that catharsis is lost.

This, to a degree; I do object to being told to switch off if you don't like [whatever changes have been made to a programme] - the point is that I don't want to switch off thanks, I want to watch 'this' - this being a favourite programme, with favourite usually being defined by some or other key characteristic/s. There's a lot of 'if you don't like this change you were never a real fan at all' about, including from Colin Baker. Fans of Coronation Street when it had Ena Sharples & the odd drama, and not murders & ott disasters & whatnot, are fans for whom that WAS the programme they loved, & it ceased for them to be that programme anymore, and they are sad about it - fair enough imo.

Genuine question, was it ever previously mentioned that the time lord can regenerate into either gender?
Only way this point really has any relevance, is if it was.
In which case, I completely agree, what have they been playing at?

This was what I also wanted to know, having seen reference elsewhere to Time Lords & Time Ladies (eg 'Due to the fact that a Time Lord or Time Lady could unwillingly swap genders with regeneration, the Time Lords were less concerned about gender roles, despite still calling themselves Lords and Ladies') but this is a quote from series 10 and I was too lazy to google if all allusions of this type are latterday & tacked-on. Basically if it's canonical fine by me, if not not; I'm far too much of a strict-adherent-to-canon to think this should be so purely because it's 'about time'. Any more than I want Dr Watson in Afghanistan, so nowt to do with gender.

[Ttaskmaster]

but this is a quote from series 10 and I was too lazy to google if all allusions of this type are latterday & tacked-on.

Having not watched Dr Who quite so religiously in the old days, ie pre-Eccleston, I cannot say where it first arose.
However, I understand that not all Gallifreians are Timelords and that only the latter can regenerate... suggesting gender may be more of a thing for Gallifreians...

Any more than I want Dr Watson in Afghanistan, so nowt to do with gender.

See, that worked very interestingly because the whole setting was modernised and updated... and yet, in the one-off Sherlock episode The Abominable Bride set in 1895, they showed Watson had been in the Second Anglo-Afghan War...

Whilst this is historically debatable, Doyle actually did have Watson serving in Afghanistan in the original books:
http://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafg...les/watson.php

So nowt to do with being topical there, either... even if it is a Moffatt special!

[sammyc]

For Afghanistan read 'have an iPhone' then or any anomalous other thing. My point is, no modernising & updating of an author's work tyvm, interesting or otherwise. It's their vision & to be left alone, for me that goes across the board.

[peterb]

For anyone who has 10 minutes of their life they don't want back....

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Regeneration

[Biscuit]

Frankly if the topic was brought up in the show, and there is no canon reason for time lord to be a male exclusively, then its over to the writers and producers to create something balanced.

If they turn every episode into a circus of, "I don't need no man", like so many shows before it, they shouldn't be surprised if people switch off and criticise.

For anyone who has 10 minutes of their life they don't want back....

TL : DR?

[peterb]

Frankly if the topic was brought up in the show, and there is no canon reason for time lord to be a male exclusively, then its over to the writers and producers to create something balanced.

If they turn every episode into a circus of, "I don't need no man", like so many shows before it, they shouldn't be surprised if people switch off and criticise.



TL : DR?

All (more than) you ever wanted to know about Time Lord regeneration

(And no, I haven't read it - the 'historical accuracy' of a fictional character (shock horror) in a science fiction story really doesnt warrant that much tome for me - YMMV.)

The days when I used to hide behind the sofa when the Daleks emerged from a shaky set are long gone - Dr Who is no longer a must watch for me, although I enjoy it when I happen to watch it. (I also enjoy the re-runs of the radio series on R4Extra - but not to the extent that I search them out)

[Biscuit]

Yeah, I'm honestly not a big Dr Who fan either tbh, so I'll keep my 10 minutes

[esde]

Given that several recent male Dr incarnations have been prone to fondling their new faces, teeth, et al, upon reincarnation, my imagination is getting the better of me ...