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Thread: Culture, a brief history.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Like I say it's cultural selection. I've never seen gangnam.
    You should, it is a part of the current meme based culture of the next generation, though they would probably now consider it beyond "peak" considering how fast material goes from relevance to history. But that is just how things are, modern culture is defined by the Internet and moves at Internet speeds way beyond how previous generations had to wait for something to turn up on TV or even slower in print. We have moved beyond people being famous for 15 minutes, now it is memes that stick around for maybe a couple of weeks. Whether watching a Globglogabgalab remix taking some badly drawn cartoon character from a lame animation that seems to preach that books are evil, or doing unkind things to Michael Rosen, these days kids are growing up on YouTube.

    https://www.latlmes.com/culture/cave...-meaningless-1

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Like I say it's cultural selection. I've never seen gangnam….
    Man are you in for a treat

    The original version:

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Man are you in for a treat

    The original version: ...
    And as we apparently can't embed more than one video per post:

    The BEST version (don't @ me):

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    This song and video is better though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF27TNC_4pc





    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    And as we apparently can't embed more than one video per post:

    The BEST version (don't @ me):
    I was not aware of this acoustic version. Noice

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    I find it works best as the soundtrack to videos.

    From an acquaintance of mine:


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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    I rather like:


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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    T>the rest of your post is nonsense. Of course culture is dynamic that's the nature of of cultural evolution. In many ways it's those who apply their knowledge and imaginations to what humans are capable of that moves us forward artistically and in other spheres. Star Trek was a way of enthusing the public with the idea of planetary exploration, and all the costs, both financially and in terms of life, that went with that.

    https://www.nasa.gov/content/nasa-an...-trek-overview

    'It is clear that your environment shapes much of your outward behavior; but did you know that culture also influences brain function, altering the way you think about and perceive the world around you?.........Culture is all around us, shaping our brain and behavior. Consequently, people from various cultures will process the world differently...........humanity as a group comprised of unique individuals molded by their complex and intricate culture'.

    from https://psychneuro.wordpress.com/201...on-perception/
    Last edited by johnroe; 03-07-2018 at 09:09 PM.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    You should, it is a part of the current meme based culture of the next generation, though they would probably now consider it beyond "peak" considering how fast material goes from relevance to history. But that is just how things are, modern culture is defined by the Internet and moves at Internet speeds way beyond how previous generations had to wait for something to turn up on TV or even slower in print. We have moved beyond people being famous for 15 minutes, now it is memes that stick around for maybe a couple of weeks. Whether watching a Globglogabgalab remix taking some badly drawn cartoon character from a lame animation that seems to preach that books are evil, or doing unkind things to Michael Rosen, these days kids are growing up on YouTube.

    https://www.latlmes.com/culture/cave...-meaningless-1
    It' s bizarre these days because although I've never seen the original gangnam, you can't escape all the references to it. So we are all vaguely aware of even things that we try to avoid. I have watched that This is America a few times, it's so dense with references. You'd have to know the history of African dance, and Black American dance(music hall, tv,etc) to understand the dance moves alone. I've already seen a GTA version and a camp Fortnight version.

    When people say that people's attention span is so short(I'm not saying you did), I think what is really happening, is the internet is making our minds work much faster, and we are generally so sophisticated that we can interpret and understand much quicker. Even gaming can have a similar effect, only we think quicker in specific ways. I think part of this no sole authority, hetergeneous aspect of the internet will bring about a cultural revolution. In the twentieth century giving power to the people was based on some manipulated mis interpretations of Marxism. But the real Liberator may turn out to be Berners-Lee.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    So I think at the moment you could say that the internet is a communication/cultural resource. But Berners-Lee says to reach it's next potential all raw data should be freely available(presumably so that each society can reach it's full potential in terms of organisation and needs).

    As he says he invented the WWW to help scientists exchange ideas and communicate, but he still feels that many in that community aren't sharing their raw data freely. He also believes that all users should share their data, and that governments and corporations need to be totally transparent(not least because tax payers fund them, or buy their products), as people have a right to know the truth.

    Instead of governments and corporations having control, by controlling or manipulating the data(or denying access to it), it should be freely available to scrutiny. The internet has already created a shift in power away from corporations for artists and consumers, and it has already created a political shift in power towards the people.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    T>the rest of your post is nonsense.
    Most of what you post is recycled references and plagiarism of someone else's work, if not simply a direct parroting of it, with barely any relevance to the subject at hand. When you do preface it with "I think", you clearly have not thought else I'd not be so ready to pick holes in your assertions.

    I get that you feel your poorly-veiled pretentions of sophistication and intellect are threatened by my continual challenges, hence your insistence on trying to reduce my username to a single letter as some imagined insult, while pretending to dismiss my challenges as somehow so far beneath you as to not even warrant a response... but you're doing a very poor job of even those and remarks like this only worsen your case. Indeed, it's one of the few times you're actually saying anything. Were anything else the case, you'd be able to answer the challenges.... quite easily, in fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Of course culture is dynamic that's the nature of of cultural evolution.
    It's not evolving, though. It's stagnating, which is why we're getting so many film remakes and song covers.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    In many ways it's those who apply their knowledge and imaginations to what humans are capable of that moves us forward artistically and in other spheres.
    And again, we're not moving forward, but stagnating.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    did you know that culture also influences brain function, altering the way you think about and perceive the world around you?
    Does it?
    Really?
    OMG, who'd a thunk it.....?
    Hey, here's one for you in return - 'Did you know'... that water is wet?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    humanity as a group comprised of unique individuals molded by their complex and intricate culture
    It's neither complex, nor intricate.
    It is not complicated either, although humans do like to make it complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    It' s bizarre these days because although I've never seen the original gangnam, you can't escape all the references to it. So we are all vaguely aware of even things that we try to avoid.
    NO!!
    You might like to think you are, but you do not speak for everyone and using your one anecdote applied to everyone is a glaring fallacy of which even you should feel ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    When people say that people's attention span is so short(I'm not saying you did), I think what is really happening, is the internet is making our minds work much faster, and we are generally so sophisticated that we can interpret and understand much quicker.
    That might be what you'd like to think.
    The truth is a combination of overexposure and oversaturation of common themes pervading culture, and it's utterly boring.

    Back when I was a lad, there was a book Dracula.
    Now there are dozens upon dozens of vampires in films and games and books. Same for zombies and werewolves. So many, in fact, that 'zombie' is no longer a single game genre, but there's also zombie survival, zombie combat, zombie tactical...

    Peoples' mind aren't working faster, they've just seen all this cack before.
    Case in point - The film Aliens has influenced computer games, and been ripped off so many times, that an actual Aliens game has absolutely nothing unique left to bring to the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Even gaming can have a similar effect, only we think quicker in specific ways. I think part of this no sole authority, hetergeneous aspect of the internet will bring about a cultural revolution. In the twentieth century giving power to the people was based on some manipulated mis interpretations of Marxism. But the real Liberator may turn out to be Berners-Lee.
    You say this as if it's a good thing...
    Instead, we have corporate entities able to control the markets and the people far easier than ever (case in point: see other thread about junk food advertising), crime far simpler and more annonymous, and of course Trial By Twitter, where someone's reputation and entire career can be permanently shredded in just half an hour of the social media rumour mill... and all that while, someone is making money from it.

    This is not liberty. Far from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    But Berners-Lee says to reach it's next potential all raw data should be freely available(presumably so that each society can reach it's full potential in terms of organisation and needs).
    That sounds more like an assumption.
    An actual presumption would be that he would somehow be able to make money from it.

    Case in point, your own next line:

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    he still feels that many in that community aren't sharing their raw data freely.
    Yeah - Because someone else will then just take it and make money off it. Won't even say thanks, and won't have to as it's given away freely.
    Would YOU give away something with which I can then make myself a billionaire?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    He also believes that all users should share their data, and that governments and corporations need to be totally transparent(not least because tax payers fund them, or buy their products), as people have a right to know the truth.
    Oh dear......

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Instead of governments and corporations having control, by controlling or manipulating the data(or denying access to it), it should be freely available to scrutiny.
    Even you cannot truly believe people can be trusted with that kind of responsibility....

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    The internet has already created a shift in power away from corporations for artists and consumers, and it has already created a political shift in power towards the people.
    Away from corporations???!!
    Who is your ISP? Do you pay a company for your internet? Have you not heard of Google?

    Power to the people.... How well is that working out, eh? Oh, yeah, Brexit - Look at all those people totally NOT under the influence of corporate media's political agenda...

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    T>I merely shorten your forum name and reply to your posts directly, because I dislike all that boring repetition. Again you aren't really saying anything, just opposing what I say. Hey I just state my viewpoint, and if you disagree that's your prerogative. What I actually do is read lots of ideas, watch lectures, and try to come to some consensus. I formulate an opinion, but reference other peoples' ideas that I value(that's standard practice).

    I think part of the problem is that many people don't appear to think for themselves, they do just think in cliches(obvious lazy patterns of thought). But by taking a different perspective, you can see that most scenarios can be interpreted in a different way. I'm not claiming any intellect, like I said before we all have 2 litre brains(the polymath Poincare only had a 500cl brain), it just depends on the cultural selections you make to construct your neural pathways, which data you choose to store and use. I can see now how those who stereotype themselves as 'logical and objective' have already proscribed the limits of their intelligence(Jordan Peterson idea). But don't fret T you are not in the least bit logical, quite creative in your responses in fact.

    I think there is a laziness in certain aspects of culture, but that is because of corporate control and their profit motivations. But there's always an avant garde operating at the boundaries of mainstream culture, where the artists are motivated by exploring some aspect of human culture and life. I think you have to think back to before the internet. You were taught at school what to believe, you were limited to the books in your library. But today, children could access contrary ideas, access any literature, take a virtual tour of the Louvre, or a 3D tour of Venice(ie: less limitations).

    I watched a Berners Lee lecture the night before, where he stated those ideas. He feels that scientists should release the raw data so that it can be used freely, and interpreted by other scientists. I think he has a point about government and corporate transparency, but it requires an understanding of how they manipulate information to suit them(whether that's war on Iraq, or diesel car emissions being faked), and he believes in shifting power to the people. Yes he is idealistic, but between hackers, whistle blowers, and investigative journalists(freedom of information requests), slowly centralised power is being challenged.

    I knew within minutes of searching(before war), the truth about Iraq, and I think Brexit showed that what people believe, based on their own experience, far out ways government and media manipulation(ie: the difference between a trading partnership, and a federation of states run by Germany and France, based on their voting power in EU).

    You could say that the Earth has a natural culture, which is being challenged by a human sub culture. The power of that sub culture is based on freedom of information using the WWW, and that is just down to the free sharing of information.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    T>I merely shorten your forum name and reply to your posts directly, because I dislike all that boring repetition.
    Typing four or five letters is really that much of a struggle for you?
    Why even bother when the quote function here works very well....?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Again you aren't really saying anything, just opposing what I say.
    Oh, I'm sorry - What would you like me to "say" then?
    It's a challenge - I question your assertions and back it up with reasoning, evidence and sometimes even quite detailed explanations, yet you think that is 'saying nothing'? I'm offering you further information to better inform your opinion, yet you blindly turn away from all that and cling to your preformed anthology of other people's ideas... Do you not like having your assertions challenged, or can you just not cope with people having differing opinions and experiences?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Hey I just state my viewpoint, and if you disagree that's your prerogative.
    You recycle other people's work, plagiarising it to the point where it loses context and meaning. It's not a viewpoint, just a tabloid snippet.
    I never hear your reasoning for your 'viewpoint'... just a citation, or rather passing mention, of what someone else said in some article or other that you think wholly justifies your entire statement and position.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    What I actually do is read lots of ideas, watch lectures, and try to come to some consensus. I formulate an opinion, but reference other peoples' ideas that I value(that's standard practice).
    And yet you utterly ignore the same ideas from anyone that contradicts your pre-formed perspective.
    You don't form an opinion, but you are opinionated...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    I think part of the problem is that many people don't appear to think for themselves
    "Hello Kettle. This is Pot. Black. Over".

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    But by taking a different perspective, you can see that most scenarios can be interpreted in a different way.
    Again, what's your excuse for not doing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    I can see now how those who stereotype themselves as 'logical and objective' have already proscribed the limits of their intelligence(Jordan Peterson idea).
    FORGET Jordan Peterson - That his idea, not yours. Think for yourself!!

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    I think you have to think back to before the internet. You were taught at school what to believe, you were limited to the books in your library.
    You might have been. I certainly wasn't...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    But today, children could access contrary ideas, access any literature, take a virtual tour of the Louvre, or a 3D tour of Venice(ie: less limitations).
    Much of which is meaningless without the societal guidance that people are now too lazy to provide.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    Yes he is idealistic, but between hackers, whistle blowers, and investigative journalists(freedom of information requests), slowly centralised power is being challenged.
    It's not being challenged at all.
    There are a few complaints, but for the most part centralisation is actually being favoured. Again, look at how much Google controls - Corporate monopolies are not dimishing, they're just changing how they operate... not even 'keeping up with the times', so much as dictating what those times are!

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    I knew within minutes of searching(before war), the truth about Iraq
    Which you think is what, exactly?
    You make a statement like that, it requires further substantiation.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    I think Brexit showed that what people believe, based on their own experience, far out ways government and media manipulation
    Yes, but both government and media also know this, and so use this to their considerable advantage...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnroe View Post
    You could say that the Earth has a natural culture, which is being challenged by a human sub culture. The power of that sub culture is based on freedom of information using the WWW, and that is just down to the free sharing of information.
    I could.... but I wouldn't, because it isn't true. Culture implies a vibrant life full of achievement. This 'sub-culture' of yours is negating and killing off more than it brings to the table, and people are stagnating because of it.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I could.... but I wouldn't, because it isn't true. Culture implies a vibrant life full of achievement. This 'sub-culture' of yours is negating and killing off more than it brings to the table, and people are stagnating because of it.
    So, a sub culture with more access to information than ever before, but apparently less able, or willing, to filter it and weigh it appropriately in a rounder context and against corroboratory sources. The soundbite wins, and it's all about the moment, and presentation, than actual facts and substantiation. The push for tweets, and feeds, and short snappy, readable on a mobile screen pushes further and faster towards a lack of depth, detail, and loss of detail, or even unbiased presentation of a balanced argument. It is not empowering people if all they are fed is fake news.

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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    Quote Originally Posted by atemporal View Post
    Some very true words
    Yep, all of that!

    Reading what you wrote, I felt a sort of rhythm and was reminded of the 'monologue' that Andrew Eldritch delivers at the end of Under The Gun (Sisters Of Mercy. Very cool).

    I then got to thinking, it was also reminiscent of Paul Hardcastle's vocals to Nineteen.... N-N-N-N-Nineteen.

    Eventually my Friday Head turned it into some weird kind of intro narrativelike they had at the beginning of The A-Team, and Inow have the beginnings of an idea for a new TV show...
    "In Two-Thousand Eighteen a sub culture emerged with more access to information than ever before, but apparently less able, or willing, to filter it.... "

    I'm now wondering how I can pull off a re-interpretation of The A-Team, using that as the starting premise and casting it with HEXUS forum members!!

  18. #32
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    Re: Culture, a brief history.

    T>(it's just shorthand, not meant to offend), well no, I do weigh up what people say, I read different viewpoints. But if you're referring to the so called expert on here, too desperate. (If someone is confident of their opinion, then they state it, they don't have to resort to....well you know!).

    Look like everyone else on the planet, I'm just trying to make sense of everything, and it's difficult because you do have to process masses of information, even to get a basic understanding. When I was listening to the Jordan Peterson piece it was to understand the difference between those who only recognise logic, and the real world where we use many other aspects of our minds as well as logic. But he said that basically 'logical' people and creative people will not understand each other at all, they think in completely different ways.

    I think people underestimate young people, and apply ludicrous stereotypes to them as a whole. I find young people to be incredibly smart, and quite capable of accessing any information they need. They know everything I know, and everything from their generation. They are also because of the dynamic nature of culture, very sophisticated in their background knowledge, and understanding. I think in a way culture moves forward, but it isn't easy to see, but just look at a film from the eighties, or music from the fifties, to realise the rate of change.

    Why the obsession with Google? The whole of society is restructuring around us, everything is changing at an ever increasing rate. The internet will be the basis of our new infrastructure, it already is, and AI networks will enhance organisation. But we have to forget the idea of privacy, in terms of data. I think you are cynical about humanity, human culture could envelop this planet, and natural culture could become redundant.

    I think one big change in behavioural culture has been played out through technology. The courts and people at large are deciding what is and what is not acceptable online. So we see cases like revenge porn, or embarrassing photos, blackmail, to insults, stalking; all behaviour being decided somewhere between culture and emerging tech possibilities.

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