Telephony & UPS Question :x) (for charadee~)

[funnelhead]

Hi guys (and dolls),

I'm a self employed travelling techie, and ive just got my first biggish contract to put a network in at a new site for a local charity. Now while i'm very experienced home-visiting techie, this is my first time dealing with a serious infrastructure, so i need a little advice!

First on the list:

I need to choose a UPS that will run the IP Telephony platform [ a Fuji-Siemans Hi path 3500 with 20 connected handsets ]

http://www.communications.siemens.co...ipath_3000.htm

and the HP proliant exchange server [ a simple floor seated 3ghz p4 with 3 x 10k disks)

I dont need this to run for too long, just survive the odd short brownout. I guess having the telephones run for 1/2 hour or so would be good....... and since all the clients pc's will be off... i just need the server to do a controlled shutdown after 10 mins or so...

The HiPath is scpecced @ 180 watts, i'm estimating the server would be pulling 200-300 watts, but thats a bit of a guess.

Please, ANY related advice on a good quality and good value UPS would be really appreciated, as i would feel pretty bad if i screwed up doing a job for a charity

Ideally looking for a rackmounted unit.... my first thought took me to this:as in the specs it quotes 26 minutes @ 480watts, it looks like it will do an auto shutdown, and it's not too expensive.

Thanks loads for all advice, please tell me if i'm overlooking something here

f

[burble]

APC is definately the way to go. The one you've linked to should be fine, the runtime won't be fantastic but it'll certainly be long enough to shutdown the server cleanly.

As far as shutdown options go, you can connect the UPS directly to the server using a USB cable or get a network management card for the UPS then install the APC Network Shutdown utility onto the server. The network options is more useful when you've got multiple servers hanging off a given UPS.

[funnelhead]

Hi burble, thanks for quick reply!

Theres only one server, so usb would be fine i take it...and i just need that to shutdown really if the power hasnt come back after 5 mins or so. It's just the telephony that needs to last so people can keep working.

Obviously longer is better, but there seems to be a hefty price jump £270 -> £450 for the next model up (1500va -> 2200va), and there isnt room in my budget for more than £300 really.

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...Thumbnails=yes

f

[burble]

Yeah, USB will be fine

[dave87]

At the last place I worked, we used a rackmounted MGE System, which seemed to do everything you would require (it ran 2xdual xeon servers, so comparable load to 1xserver and telephony) and worked fine. No new batteries required in the 1 and a half years I worked there, so reliability shouldn't be a problem.

[TiG]

What phones you got for the Siemens kit - IF you've gone VOIP?, they Powered over the ethernet? or powered via mains?.

TiG

[funnelhead]

mmm i'll have to check that with the telecomms company lol..... get back to you on that one...but i'm assuming it's POE as the system itself (the HiPath 3500) can be fitted with an internal battery...which would be pretty useless unless either a) it's POE or b) you own a generator to power the handsets

I just wanted something that would power the server too.

thanks for bringing that up though, thats jusst the kind of thing i'm needing


f

[jamin]

APC and MGE Ups systems are the best around, MGE have a background in making and maintaining DC systems for comms companies.

Can I just add that you need to consider providing at least 1 fallback PSTN line in this installation. Consider the following: The power fails in the Charities office, the server and VOIP system performs a controlled shutdown. If something then happens while the power is out that requires a 999 or urgent call out of the office, there is no facility to do this.

I admit that someone in the office would probably have a mobile but you can't rely on this.

In systems I have installed and worked on in the past, I have ensured that (depending on the office size) at least one PSTN fallback line is installed. In addition to this the PBX (Server or standalone unit) has been configured to divert all incoming lines (digital or PSTN depending on installation) to the fallback line(s) on recieving the shutdown command from the UPS when the power fails. This is done to enable the office to function in a limited manner and be able to make urgent/emergency calls if the power fails. Once the power is restored, the PBX can be set to issue the clear divert command on the incoming lines, thereby restoring the office to normal operation.

Personally I would never install a PBX system without a fallback facility. It gives the customer a sense of security and could save you some serious agro.

[TiG]

Can only re-iterate what Jamin's said, its quality advice and can't fault it.

As for the handsets, they might not be VOIP ones, they could just be digital phones. The costs are usually vastly different. I'm guessing if they are POE they should have something within the phone system itself but it would be important to know this, as if its an external switch this would need to be ups'd too.

TiG

[funnelhead]

Thanks Jamin, TiG, dave and burble!

I see what you mean re the pstn backup jamin - Since there will be an ADSL line coming in - can this act as the backup? As for getting the incoming pbx calls diverted to the pstn line - i dont have a CLUE where to start on that Would that be a function of the Hipath system itself,like a redirect command that it would issue to BT before shutdown? Or something i would have to arrange with BT?

VOIP phones vs Digital phones. AH, i think i have obviously misunderstood something. Guess i just saw it was all CAT5e and thought VOIP! not clued up on the differences and the implications, so will have to go and roll around on the interweb and see i f can get clearer on digital vs voip.

the blurb page says:

The HiPath 3000 Real-Time IP System is a native IP system that provides full support for circuit-switched trunks and stations with outstanding investment protection.

from: http://www.communications.siemens.co...ipath_3000.htm

I'm going to see the telecom reps on Monday, and you guys are giving me a good list of questions!

Thanks very much for ALL the input, this really beats the day job

f

edit

ah TiG i see what you are getting at: (from the same page)

supports versatile selection of endpoint clients: optiPoint 500 family of digital telephones, optiPoint 410 and optiPoint 420 family of IP telephones, optiClient 130, optiPocket soft clients as well as 3rd party devices via H.323 or SIP.

I will find out whats getting put in on monday.. TiG i take it that the voip is the expensive option in which case we will proberly just be digital handsets... What are the benefits of running voip rather that digital handsets though? Are both capable of being POE ?

For anyone in the same leeaky boat as me, i found these pages enlightening:

http://www.scl.org/editorial.asp?i=1451
http://www.voip.habari.co.tz/VoIP_faq.html#g05
http://business.pcauthority.com.au/p...spx?CIID=79373

Sleep well y'all

f

[funnelhead]

Aha i'm back from looking at the installation and all seems well! As i thought they have gone for the cheapest handsets - the "entry" level, which is - entry < economy < basic < standard !!!!

They are basic digital handsets, run on POE. So if i just power the pbx platform all should be well.

One thing that did annoy me - the cabling install company has numbered the wall points, but not the rack points! so i have no idea which cable goes to which hole in the wall. I'm hoping to avoid running my cable checker on 78 points with one angry phone call

f

[TiG]

VOIP gives you the ability to run a converged network, you can have the network off the back of the phones. I mean this is my bread and butter day to day working, most of my work is to extend the offerings of the system custom development speech recognition over the top of this stuff.

As for the ADSL i personally wouldn't touch the line on here for an emergency. As for the redirect, i'd assume you have a ISDN30 for the main telephone switch, what you have to do is get a BT redirect on the system of a failure.

I'm suprised digital handsets need a PoE switch to run them, they got active LCD screens?. Most of hte digital extensions i've ever dealt with don't require it.

TiG

[funnelhead]

oh ok, well when i said they were POE, i meant that they dont require a mains plug....so i assumed POE..... i guess they just run passively..?

And the system is ISDN2 - 3 lines for 6 simultaneous calls...but i guess that doesnt change things. So i could just ask BT for a redirect if they sense the isdn connections go down?


cheers TiG, appreciate this!


f

[TiG]

Are the ISDN2's setup as a single number? Usually i'd expect an ISDN30 with only 6 ports.

As for POE, nope there is a definitely distinction between passively powered and actively powered by the network ports the phones are plugged into. Digital extensions are what i expected on the size of the setup.

As for the redirect i think that will depend how the ISDN2's are setup. BT will have to advise you on that.

No problem with the advice, any time

TiG