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Thread: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

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    disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    Hello folk. We have spent five days trying to get a friends Draytek Vigor 2800G to see the ISP, and went through every setting six times over in the router setup pages before we found that the username was missing the first digit because of a faulty key entry - that will teach me to double check EVERY entry!

    We got all the greens in the status pages after that and were able to get Google news and have a gawp at what was going on in the world before we decided we ought to do something about making the wireless network secure - and our troubles began again, pronto. We lost connection.

    I had put it to 'WEP key only' because of something I had read in the latest firmware upgrade notes, about an issue of inoperability if the system was on mixed mode.

    We tried 'this and that' to get the WEP key working, without any joy, and eventually disabled security to 'start again'. It took some time before we could get the computer to connect to the internet again - I think we turned the router and computer off and back on and then got connected via ethernet and went back into setup to change the key to shared - anyway, eventually we got to putting it onto the mixed mode option and got the router to accept our thirteen digit key and thought that was that.

    Not so.

    The network could be seen from a remote laptop, but neither laptop could connect even though we could now see it, which had not been so before.

    I went to ipconfig and found there were no IP settings at all appearing on the private side of the router - though in the router status page the IP's for getting out are there and all pages are green. So, the router isn't able to talk to the nics - is that right?

    Is this the 'inoperability' issue the firmware guide speaks of?

    After that further disaster struck when I wanted to go back in via the browser and switch security off again. I found that I couldn't get IE6 up. I looked at Task Manager after several tries and saw it was there but not responding - and then we lost explorer.exe as well, so I shut down and Windows felt it had to check the disk structure before I got back in. THEN I disabled security and we got on the net OK, and that is how we have left it for now, but come away puzzled as to what might (not) be happening.

    I checked the TCPIP properties to make sure everything was set to dynamic for getting IP's though I am not sure if that counts with wireless and PPPoA - it was, as I would expect.

    I have learned a lot about ADSL this week, but it looks like my learning isn't over yet - can you help??

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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    No - the interoperability bit (which I haven't looked at in detail) is about different security modes and mixing them.

    First off - with both computers connected by wire to the router, can you achieve what you want to achieve?

    If yes - the windows set up is correct - if not, then you need to get that sorted out first (which Windows version(s)?)

    ((Just as a thought - confirm that you have got DHCP set up on the router - with a scope of at least 4 (as the laptops will take a different IP address for the wireless connection and the lan connection)

    If no, we can you up static IP addresses for the laptops?

    Then with security disabled - can you get the laptop(s) to connect wirelessly to the router? (ie get an IP address when you run ipconfig)

    If yes - can you achieve what you want as in the first step?

    If yes, the problem lies with the security settings (if no - there is another problem with the set up - but we can sort that out if it arises)

    I await the next installment er... eagerly?
    Last edited by peterb; 18-08-2007 at 08:39 PM.
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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    hello Peter yes, interoperability to do with mixed modes security yes? Here is what it says

    1. Wireless setting issue.
    - There is an interoperability issue if wireless security setting is mixed mode (WEP or
    WPA/WPA2-PSK) and clients baed on the Ralink RT2571 or RT2561 chipsets.

    I do not recognise the chipsets named here - are they on the network cards?


    We only took one cat 5 cable so could only have one connected that way - but both connect via ethernet. XP on both.

    DHCP... I think it is as a default in the router setup - I didn't disable it. I will make a note and have a look to make sure when I go back next week.
    I haven't tried static IP's. The TalkTalk requirements were for dynamic, and indeed it all works when network security is disabled.

    I am not returning to the router until next week, when I hope to take another ADSL router to try if this one still won't cooperate.
    thank you Peter

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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    No the static IPs would be on the LAN side, not the WAN (talk talk) side - but if it working as you wish with security disabled, then all is OK - the problem lies in setting that up.

    Yes, the chipsets they refere to are in the client PCs - however you probably won't need to use mixed mode so even if those chipsets are in use, it shouldn't be an issue.

    You said they are laptops - do they have wireless built in or are you using either a USB wirelss device or PCMCIA devices? (Not that it really matters as the setup is the same for both.) Basically it involves selecting a key for the system, and then applying it to all the devices on the network. (The router and the two PCs).

    To set up the router... (We'll use WEP at this stage)

    Log on and go to Wirelss - security

    On that page select WEP only

    Tne under WEP - encription mode, select 128 bit

    select key1

    enter 13 mixed, random ascii characters (upper and lower case letter, number and symbols like this

    aTHjy*£3%@vq9

    MAKE a NOTE of what they are!

    (you can enter 26 HEX characters instead stating with 0x like this

    0x1234567890abcdef0123456789

    but make them random (don't cut and paste these examples!) - again make a note (the latter is slightly more secure - but only because you are using the full range of characters available - using the keyboard you tend to use a restricted set - to get it working use the simplest set - you can change it later)

    The go to the wirelss set up pages in Windows XP and again enable security, select WEP, 128 bit key and enter the same characters that you placed in the router. Thats it - it should work.

    There are some other things we can do to tighten up security, but get the basics working first - then we can look at other options.
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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    Peter - I have dragged Jeff Duntemann ( Wi-Fi Guide) off the shelf and have learned a couple of things that would have had a bearing.
    Because things were 'going wrong' with security enabled, we had changed a couple of settings, trying 'this and that', which probably confused things even more. Also, another computer, set up for wi-fi in the 'business' part of the home could have been on, so there would have been the owners laptop, our own laptop and a tower, all in different states, since ours is setup to our own wep key, the 'business' computer would have been 'open' and the laptop we were working on was trying to establish a new security key with mixed mode. No wonder things went pearshaped!!

    I shall go with Jeff D tucked under my arm, and your advice, next week and stick closely to what I am told to do. However there is one thing I am wondering about.

    The laptop I am working on is fairly new, so I assume it has SP2 on it, however, when JD wrote his book (2nd edition) it seems that XP required a 'supplicant' to be downloaded from Microsoft. I have tried that but I see it is only for XPSP1. Does that mean that XPSP2 already has the necessary software installed??

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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    Not and XP user - yet alone an expert, but I would guess that any patches that were needed with XP SP1 would have been swept up with SP2. My daughters laptop with SP2 connected to my router using WEP pretty much out of the box - no additional software required. If you are using built in wi-fi then the drivers will bethere. If you are yusing an add on device, any required drivers will have come with that and used as part of the installation process.
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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    Peter, I have looked at your advice on the wep setup you kindly gave on your previous post, and basically, that is what we did yesterday - but did I have the cat5 in? I can't remember now! After that didn't work, we tried other keys, and 'this and that' which means we had a bit of a random untick this and untick that sort of five minutes - and was the cable in then? I can't say! What a disaster area I am!
    However, someone has warned me about Draytek wi-fi not being very good, and the interoperability thing came up again, so although I am blaming me at present, we will be taking another router just in case it IS the router playing up..... I agree with you about the supplicant patch - we didn't need to download anything when setting up wi-fi at home....

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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    I can only say that I have not had any problems with my Draytek and wifi! You will need to set it up using a cable connection.
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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    peterb? are you still there? We have been back and got the network working on another router as we were getting puzzles with the Draytek. On the new router we got the network setup for both ethernet and wireless and that was fine in open. We setup a WPA-PSK key and found that our own laptop, which we were using as a 'control' could access the secure network, but that the owners laptop could not. I would put the key in and it would try and then I would be presented with the same screen again, to put the key in, and I was not connected. I know you might say that I had put the key in wrong, but we tried it twice ( which is actually four times since you do it twice each time), with one reading it and the other typing one key at a time - and THIS laptop has not got a duff keyboard, being new, so we are pretty well sure that it was entered correctly - and I had quoted the same key for the laptop that did get in, so the router is seeing the same key.

    There was something in the security config that I did not recognise, called a RADIUS server, which I unticked. Should I have left that ticked? However,that would not explain how one machine gets on and the other doesn't. We have left it with both the family's computers able to access the net and receive e-mail, but with no protection. We will go back in a bit, and we will put the key in AGAIN, but if you have any thoughts, it would be appreciated.

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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    Does the other laptop support WPA? Try it with WEP to start with. You are not using a radius server!
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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    it is a new laptop (Acer) so I would think it is a wireless G card - is that what you mean when you ask if it supports WPA?

    So I was right to untick for RADIUS then, good.

    When we go back we will try for WEP first. Next week I think. Thanks Peter

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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    Quote Originally Posted by pawz View Post
    it is a new laptop (Acer) so I would think it is a wireless G card - is that what you mean when you ask if it supports WPA?



    So I was right to untick for RADIUS then, good.

    When we go back we will try for WEP first. Next week I think. Thanks Peter
    WPA is an encryption protocol - wireless G is a description of the connection speed, so the two are unrelated (I have a wireless G card that doesn't support WPA). WEP was the first encryption protocol, and therefore most likely to be supported, hence the advice to get that working first. WEO is weaker than WPA, but unless you are specifically targeted and carrying very sensitive data that isn't encrypted by other means (such as SSL when connecting to online banking) it is good enough. There are other things you can do to improve the security of the link (particularly with teh Draytek) but lets get WEP encryption working first.
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    Re: disappearing networks IP's security keys and frazzled human

    OK Peter, thanks. I will come back here when I have something to report, probably be next week. WEP will be our next attempt

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