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Thread: Virgin 50mb!

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Virgin 50mb!

    Ok, so apparently its available in scotland, midlands and sawf London.

    But, its 1.5mb up stream.

    Now i've long said that bit-torrent is simply a moronic technology designed to greatly increase the cost of the internet bit by bit, without the user realising the true cost.

    But can someone who can be bothered, calculate how much of the upstream will be gone simply in ACK'ing all that 50mbit down?

    Is it even enough?
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Very quick and dirty calcualtion here;

    A quick google suggests a standard ACK is 40 bytes, I'm not sure that includes encapsulation or not - but we'll pretend a complete ACK puts 40 bytes on the wire, which is 320 bits.

    The MTU for 10/100 Ethernet is 1500 bytes, which is 12000 bits

    A 50 MBit/s connection has a bandwidth of 52 428 800bits/sec, divide that by the 12000 byte segments that it could be divided into (assuming completley full frames every time - this also assumes all traffic is TCP/IP - UDP doesn't bother with ACK-age), and we get 4369 complete frames/sec.

    Each of these require an ACK, of 320 bits - so 320 x 4369 = 1398080 bits/sec of ACK goodness.

    By googles calculation that's about 1.3MBit/s of ACK.

    This ofcourse assumes the following;

    - I've worked it out correctly, unlikely given how quickly I did it, and that I've not put much thought into it.

    - The downstream link is saturated with full-MTU frames

    - The frames are all TCP/IP.

    - ACK's are 40 bytes on the wire, not 40 bytes + encap.

    /puts on geek hat

    Edit: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1122.html suggests that ACK's arent required for *every* TCP/IP segment, so that should reduce the bandwidth requirement somewhat.
    Last edited by kidzer; 15-12-2008 at 05:35 PM.
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulm@scan View Post
    You completely missed my point. This is a geeky discussion about ACKs taking the upstream.

    kidzer, that sounds right, when i tried doing this in my head i thought 1mbit.

    Either way my point still stands, p2p sucks.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    I can't honestly say I've ever got the 10MBs I currently pay them for!

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    p2p doesn't suck, however virgin sucks.. good luck getting 50Mbs... and in the unlikely event you get that speed you'll get throttled within minutes.

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    They are upgrading the network and I think the 50Mb is on a new section of the network but I still doubt you will get 50Mb and the upload / download ration is poor. I get 1.3Mb up with my O2 16Mb package and its only £10 a month.
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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    I feel sorry for the people who believe they are actually going to get 50Mb. I only got 8.5Mb on average from Virgins upto 20Mb.

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    well im going to give it a go when it makes it out my way, cant get it yet, my 10mb lines holds fast doing test downloads from my rack server, speedtest sites are the worst way to test speeds

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    The King of Vague Steve B's Avatar
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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I feel sorry for the people who believe they are actually going to get 50Mb. I only got 8.5Mb on average from Virgins upto 20Mb.
    Is that cable or ADSL?

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I feel sorry for the people who believe they are actually going to get 50Mb. I only got 8.5Mb on average from Virgins upto 20Mb.
    They are entirely different services, so not really directly comparable like current ones
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blastuk View Post
    p2p doesn't suck, however virgin sucks.. good luck getting 50Mbs... and in the unlikely event you get that speed you'll get throttled within minutes.
    No, think about it p2p sucks.

    Multicast is just such a better technology.

    Or massive distribution servers that are on 1:1 ratio connections, rather than upto 50mb down, 1.5mb up.

    Do the maths, p2p sucks for distribution because of client limitation.

    Now lets also not forget that there should be parity and such in Bit-Torrent.

    Given that its estimated a sizeable chunk of p2p data is illegal this is also stupid. Downloading a pirated song will get you in less trouble than uploading it (unless you claim safeharbour) so p2p is stupid, end of.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    No, think about it p2p sucks.

    Multicast is just such a better technology.
    that i agree with, but it is not widely used, can't remmeber if i read somewhere that the core routers don't even support multicast

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus
    Now lets also not forget that there should be parity and such in Bit-Torrent.
    well there's the whole hash thing

    bittorrent is actually a very useful technology for distributing large amounts of data, a benefit of that is that the data doesn't have to come in order and that you can get the data from multiple sources.

    the main problem with bittorrent atm is that the clients don't differenciate between your local isp peers and foreign isp peers, if all clients preferred closer peers within the same isp then the bandwidth costs would be zero for the isp.. and they could give you a fatter pipe for no real additional bandwidth cost for transferring between peers within the isp.

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B View Post
    Is that cable or ADSL?
    Cable.

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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    the 50Mb is not on the same part of the network as 20Mb though, keep that in mind.
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    Re: Virgin 50mb!

    I trialled the 50MB service for 4 months... Back to 20MB now, cant afford the huge price tag (even though i get £10 off due to trialling..)

    The service was and has always been FANTASTIC in my area... I hear so many negative comments, a shame that the superb comments rarely get a peak...

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