Exchange - Overkill?

[jim]

In September, I will be taking control of a small network in a school - perhaps 50-60 machines in total, and one of the projects I've been asked to look into is installing an Exchange server to take care of email - notably none of its other features are wanted.

Currently they use a dodgy webmail system, and only the odd few people have access to Outlook. As far as I'm aware, the main aim is to get all members of staff onto Outlook so that they can log into the PC in the morning and then have Outlook pop up courtesy of group policy with their mailbox loaded and their email waiting for them. Which is all fair enough, but I've spoken to a couple of people I know who do a fair bit of network administration and I'm not so sure.

I reckon that the servers are getting on a bit and exchange might be the final nail in the coffin - money for new servers and exchange licenses is unlikely to be flowing freely, and having seen that Outlook works perfectly with the webmail service, surely it could be coerced into working properly for each member of staff without Exchange? Ultimately, it kinda seems that Exchange's raison d'etre is a lot more than just email, and none of the other features will ever be used in such a small environment.

Consequently, I think it's overkill for the 20-25 people who might use it and probably not a great idea, especially when there are other alternatives out there. I mean, the webmail might be quite a poor solution as it stands, but I seem to remember that Google sell webmail systems based on Gmail which (relatively) would be much better equipped and far more robust. As you can see, my experience doesn't really lie in networking/applications of servers, so any comments on the suitability of exchange or the viability of webmail (potentially an alternative to the current webmail provider) would be much appreciated.

[Jay]

it all depends how things are currently running but it may be worth looking into SBS. If you have about 25 users I would say exchange was still the best way to go because it scales so well.

If money is an issue (Microsoft do have special pricing for Schools) then google aps may work for you. Exchange 2007 needs a decent spec system to run.

[peterb]

A low power PC running a linux distro and postfix (or one of the other Open source MTAs would do the hob. If you add dovecot you can make it an imap server, which is similar in behavious to an exchange system in that mail is stiored centrallly.

I'm running something similar on a mini-itx system at the moment.

[aidanjt]

It's exactly the same, in fact. Exchange/Outlook is just a slightly mutilated IMAP solution with a slightly mutilated LDAP address book, which ties into Active Directories' slightly mutilated LDAP, DNS, DHCP, and Kerberos solution.

Completely pointless for 60, or even 200 users running off a single server.

[TheAnimus]

It's exactly the same, in fact. Exchange/Outlook is just a slightly mutilated IMAP solution with a slightly mutilated LDAP address book, which ties into Active Directories' slightly mutilated LDAP, DNS, DHCP, and Kerberos solution.

Completely pointless for 60, or even 200 users running off a single server.

No, its considerably more than IMAP.

Meetings/Calenders, Task Lists etc.

Not to mention the fact its PUSH.

Then add on things like the ability to restrict forwarding, makes it very easy to ensure no one accidentally sends confidential emails to someone outside the firm/security group.

Have the fact that running SBS is childsplay, and can easily scale, its quite a compelling offering.

[Jay]

I think people underestimate exchange and what it can bring to your company. Yes postfix, dovecot a and squirell mail are fantastic (I have a SSD atom server in a data center for me and my family's email using just that) but exchange is a more polished solution and is much easier to manage.

[aidanjt]

No, its considerably more than IMAP.

Meetings/Calenders, Task Lists etc.

The extra groupware features use different protocols. Much the same as alternative mail/groupware solutions. I was focusing on the mail part because that's what the OP is interested in.

[TheAnimus]

which is kinda my point, all these existing groupware solutions have issues interacting, everyone likes their own standard, which is always the fun thing with standards.

Given the ease at which SBS sets up, works with everything, sync with google, iPhone, BB, WM......

Now as the OP has said they aren't going to be using any them, its not a problem just yet, but given migrating mail servers isn't a fun task, he should make sure he is sure there isn't a high chance of them wanting to use them in the future. Thats the main thing.

[Funkstar]

If you go this route, never mind having outlook on every machine, Outloo Web Access with Exchange 2007 is the dogs! It is incredubly like full outlook, it's amazing.

have you looked into the costs of a hosted exchange service? With the cost of educational licenses it may well be more expensive, but for a small number of users, the license, server and running costs (i.e. the Total Cost of Ownership of that server) could well be a lot higher.

Worth thinking about at least. I'm with these guys: http://www.simplyms.com

[jim]

it all depends how things are currently running but it may be worth looking into SBS. If you have about 25 users I would say exchange was still the best way to go because it scales so well.

If money is an issue (Microsoft do have special pricing for Schools) then google aps may work for you. Exchange 2007 needs a decent spec system to run.

Yeah that's my main concern - I think adding a third server (just for exchange/sbs) would be the answer, but I doubt that they're very fond of spending more money on licenses, let alone additional hardware. I don't think they've spent any money on the infrastructure in years.

Are you recommending using Google to host the email and just dial into it with outlook through IMAP?

A low power PC running a linux distro and postfix (or one of the other Open source MTAs would do the hob. If you add dovecot you can make it an imap server, which is similar in behavious to an exchange system in that mail is stiored centrallly.

I'm running something similar on a mini-itx system at the moment.

I would consider that, but my gut feeling is that I won't be given permission to use unix in any application... I'm on a fixed-term contract and whoever comes in after I leave will likely be a school leaver. They have enough trouble with getting people in who don't understand Windows Server as far as I'm aware, let alone Unix, so it's probably a no-go.

It's exactly the same, in fact. Exchange/Outlook is just a slightly mutilated IMAP solution with a slightly mutilated LDAP address book, which ties into Active Directories' slightly mutilated LDAP, DNS, DHCP, and Kerberos solution.

Completely pointless for 60, or even 200 users running off a single server.

The extra groupware features use different protocols. Much the same as alternative mail/groupware solutions. I was focusing on the mail part because that's what the OP is interested in.

So you think it's better just to stick with third party web-based IMAP providers and setup Outlook to tie in with them?

No, its considerably more than IMAP.

Meetings/Calenders, Task Lists etc.

Not to mention the fact its PUSH.

Then add on things like the ability to restrict forwarding, makes it very easy to ensure no one accidentally sends confidential emails to someone outside the firm/security group.

Have the fact that running SBS is childsplay, and can easily scale, its quite a compelling offering.

That's the problem though, I honestly don't think that they would ever use any of the other services. At the end of the day, it's a small school, and most of them would still use diaries and post-its over Outlook any day - they'd probably use paper memos if email hadn't been hurled at them.

My gut feeling is that they just want everybody to be able to use Outlook and get their email every morning without logging into the webmail service (most of them only check it weekly as it stands), and somebody found out that Exchange can do that, so now "Exchange" is the mystery buzz-word that's being bandied around as the ultimate solution... I doubt that they are even aware of the other services it provides, and nor do I think they care - that's why I'm not sure it's the right solution here.

I think people underestimate exchange and what it can bring to your company. Yes postfix, dovecot a and squirell mail are fantastic (I have a SSD atom server in a data center for me and my family's email using just that) but exchange is a more polished solution and is much easier to manage.

So why do you prefer postfix, dovecot and squirrel mail over typical web-based IMAP solutions?

[jim]

which is kinda my point, all these existing groupware solutions have issues interacting, everyone likes their own standard, which is always the fun thing with standards.

Given the ease at which SBS sets up, works with everything, sync with google, iPhone, BB, WM......

Now as the OP has said they aren't going to be using any them, its not a problem just yet, but given migrating mail servers isn't a fun task, he should make sure he is sure there isn't a high chance of them wanting to use them in the future. Thats the main thing.

Exactly... but as I said previously I don't think the IT revolution is really hitting hard, rather it's being held back in most quarters. I just don't think that it's a big enough organisation to ever require the business features like tasks and calendars with availability etc - people would far rather pick up a phone or knock on a door.

Having said that, I've just looked at the wiki page for SBS, and it probably would suit them down to the ground, but they're cutting back spending in all quarters (I get the impression that the recession has hit them hard) and I don't think they'll be doing anything with their servers (HP machines with Server 2003) unless they catch fire. If they needed it, I'm sure I'd be able to get the necessary funding but anywhere I can keep costs down would be greatly appreciated I'm sure.

If you go this route, never mind having outlook on every machine, Outloo Web Access with Exchange 2007 is the dogs! It is incredubly like full outlook, it's amazing.

have you looked into the costs of a hosted exchange service? With the cost of educational licenses it may well be more expensive, but for a small number of users, the license, server and running costs (i.e. the Total Cost of Ownership of that server) could well be a lot higher.

Worth thinking about at least. I'm with these guys: http://www.simplyms.com

Yeah I'll look into that - if Exchange is the answer then keeping it offsite might be the best solution.

[Funkstar]

Yeah I'll look into that - if Exchange is the answer then keeping it offsite might be the best solution.

Yes there is an on going cost, but there is no captial expenditure and very little admin time on your behalf. If they want to walk away from it they can easily do that to. There is less to loose if it isn't for them.

Down side is they are constantly hitting their broadband for access, though i think Exchange is pretty light on that kind of thing.

[oldboy47]

I go with the SBS solution, great for up to 50 odd users. I believe licence restrictions are on concurrent machines OR users.

Consider SBS2003 from somewhere like CEX if Educational exchange 2007 too expensive.

[shaithis]

Check all your server loads.

I wouldn't be suprised if you found some good contenders for virtulisation, which could free up a server to dedicate to exchange.

VMWare ESXi is free (although hardware support is limited, there are more 3rd party drivers becoming available), which would leave the ony costs to be the Windows and Exchange licenses.