Student House Network

I've never had BroadBand b4 so im a bit new too all this. I've just moved into a Student house and we all want BB but i have a couple of questions.

1) There's no active phoneline in the house so would we have to pay montly line rental fee's on top of the actual broadband montly charge?

2) Is one of the benefits of getting cable istead of adsl that you don't have to pay line rental or do you ALWAYS have to pay line rental no matter what i.e with Blue yonder Cable

3) There are 5 rooms spread accross a 2 storey house...is wireless lan or a more traditional cable lan the best...is there much loss throught walls with wireless...and finally could you lot recomend hardware plz with prices :)

As always any help is really appreciated.

Adam

1. Yes
2. Dunno
3. Not sure, wired probably best but more difficult.

1. You pay BT for the phoneline and the ISP for ADSL. (Both of which are needed) The min line rental from BT is only about £6 btw.

2. Cable you just pay per month for Internet Access.

3.a. Cabling a house if not fun, and chances are you wont be able to do it without the landlords permission even then when you leave you might have to take it all out again! Cabling a house properly will prob take a whole weekend and generate plenty of mess.
b. If its just normal wooden floors and non-massivly thick walls go for wireless. Its just easier on a whole, just slightly more expensive than cabling the house.

I would go cable if i were you... NTL (if it is NTL) dont charge installation. My gf got a BT line (no choice) and they charged her £150 for connection the fecking rip off merchants.

ntl also do 9month minimum contracts for students (instead of the normal 12months.)

Yup, blueyonder or ntl are your first choices..

Then if can't get either of those, get the bt line enabled and slap 1meg adsl on as a minimum..

If you are a Computer Science/Engineer, ITO student or similar you can get money to netowrk you student home :D.
£43 if its only you, or £70 ish if there are 2 of you...just need to buy some stuff fill in a 1 page form....sounds good.
No, I dont have a link, and I dont know anyone who has done it, but worth investigating.

I would not recomend a wireless stup for the start.

wireless is a bad choice, the cons outweigh the pros.

if the landlord doesn't want to put in a wired network properly (ours did, he could hike the rent up for the next lot & take advantage of comsci students), then just sling long loops of cat5 all over the place. the ideal is wall plugs through the wall cavity, though

if you carn't go threw the walls....go along the out side ;)

wise words. our upstairs phone sockets were installed like that by BT

I read one time (in micromart) that you shouldnt put ethernet cables on the outside of the house. I cannot remember why exactly though. Also I have no problem with my WiFi kit. Had 6 player lan matches no prob.

If your going for cable broadband, it is *essential* that you check someone else's cable broadband in the area. Cable broadband can be effected by heavy leechers, which is what many students do all day.

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Originally Posted by Kumagoro

I read one time (in micromart) that you shouldnt put ethernet cables on the outside of the house. I cannot remember why exactly though. Also I have no problem with my WiFi kit. Had 6 player lan matches no prob.

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Thats why for the run outside you use stp cable and not utp cable :)

stp being sheilded twiested pair and utp being unshielded twiested pair.

:)

Ahh thanks Apex I can tell my bro he can do it now.

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Originally Posted by javalord

If your going for cable broadband, it is *essential* that you check someone else's cable broadband in the area. Cable broadband can be effected by heavy leechers, which is what many students do all day.

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Actually, I don't think that's as much of an issue these days, I lived in a student heavy broadband area at uni and I can't say it was noticable at all, most cable providers have a *lot* of spare capacity these days :)

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Originally Posted by Apex

Thats why for the run outside you use stp cable and not utp cable :)

stp being sheilded twiested pair and utp being unshielded twiested pair.

:)

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That's got nothing to do with it. STP is shielding from electromagnetic interference. Furthermore it only works if your NICs and Switches are wired to support it.

The reason you shouldn't use the cabling outside is because it won't weather too well. :) Still, I'd probably do it... it's cheap enough to replace.

you could always get a lengh of hosepipe to put it through, that should keep most of the weather out :)

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Originally Posted by Kez

That's got nothing to do with it. STP is shielding from electromagnetic interference. Furthermore it only works if your NICs and Switches are wired to support it.

The reason you shouldn't use the cabling outside is because it won't weather too well. :) Still, I'd probably do it... it's cheap enough to replace.

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Excuse me......errr wired to support it...bollox m8.

stp cable tends to have a more hardwareing cover then utp (well the stuff i used has)

The only difference in stp to utp is that the twisted pairs are shielded in stp...in all other respects it's the same.

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Excuse me......errr wired to support it...bollox m8.

stp cable tends to have a more hardwareing cover then utp (well the stuff i used has)

The only difference in stp to utp is that the twisted pairs are shielded in stp...in all other respects it's the same.

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Well thats what i was thinking...its just got tin foil stuff in it.

Doesnt the shielding need to be grounded? like with coax. Also the reason might have been something to do with lightning.

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Originally Posted by Kumagoro

Doesnt the shielding need to be grounded?

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That's what I was edging at with hardware support - something we discovered doing our networking module at college... perhaps times have changed.

It may be that STP as a rule, has stronger external insulation, in which case... go for it!

Put cat 5 in your house and get a 1meg ADSL line fur www.cpbb.co.uk its the only way to go - wireless only causes nightmares especially if you are inexpierenced, and cable internet costs alot for equivalent adsl and as javalord says will suck if its a student area.

heh, ive got 60m or so of utp running round the outside of my house, works great ;p

Well wow i turn my back for one minute and then come back to find all this! Thx u lot....so far im kinda feeling that ntl is the way to go...some student offer which is 750k for £20 a month, with no line rental....and supposedly a 9 month contract instead of 12...but theres a story to that...we rang up this ntl sales man...and he popped down...this guy looked like something out a dodgey essex 2nd hand car sales room...and said that 9month part of the "student offer" had been pulled by some big exec who was worried about stock in 9 months time when all these student left so this guy offered us the 12 month contract but with a work around to get 9 months...

option a) set up a fake debit account and then stop paying after 9 months or some bs and then cancel debit account.....im not so keen on bank fraud so i gently shrugged off this muppet worthy suggestion.

option b) come the 8th month send a letter to ntl saying we're moving to a non-cabled area like Scarborough or the Lake District where they coulnd't move the connection to...so the contract would be cancelled.....but then again isn't a 12 month contract a 12 month contract no matter what...wouldn't i need to show proof i was moving?

We gently ushered him out the door with nervous smiles and all ran off to cleanse ourselves with cold showers to get the filth off.....(not all at the same time obviously)

So atm Purple's suggestion is looking very tempting but doesn't that mean we have to pay bt line rental on top?

As for the WiFi vs Cable thing im still not sure whats best since you lot ain't sure whats best.......keep debating ;)

As always all help appreciated and thx for feedbk :) all we need now is hardware suggestions :D

for adsl you need a bt line and yes line rental on top !

come on, line rental is cheap - you can get a 1 meg line for 25.99 or a 512 line for 18.99 from www.cpbb.co.uk + £10 for line rental - between 5 of you is less than 6 quid a month each or 20p a day. 20p. A cheaper cable option would be 18p but would cost more for your mobile phone calls to their customer support probably £5 a day :rolleyes: . And the best bit about ADSL is, minimum 3 month contract, perfect!

Cable the damn house as well :)

NTL + wired gets my vote.

You will need a decent server with bandwidth shaping with 5students d/loading.

Dont forget you will want to share other things but the internet over the network and wireless is a pain for file transfers (dead slow)

GAteKeeper

you should really set up a single computer in a neutral room (like the sitting room) as a server that can be shared on your network and only use your file sharing program on that computer, otherwise you are just gonna clog your connection with UPLOADS also if one of you wants to play multiplayer games online it is easier to limit one single file sharing program than waking up your hungover or otherwise mates in their room.

also that server PC could have a TV out card in attached to your student loan purchased 32" TV for showing those cough.. digitally archived shows.

Trust me it will work better with a server.

You can get money to network your house...?

Tres interesting.

oh oh frosty i've been beavering away making that "Andrew's all conqering and propaganda way of networking guide" it'll be ready in a couple 'o days or so, still got some research to do...

btw i got myself a logitech mx500 mouse for £22 from ebuyer and im getting myself a tv in card sometime next week.

well howdy there partner ;) is the fro coming along steadily....btw i can't get into my hotmail account at the uni bcos an error comes up , could you send it to my yahoo 1!!! thx fella :)

adam_15_uk@hotmail.com

Ps: after the fishing trip the second fish died so the rest were useless sadly :( i am doomed-less .... you know what i mean :D

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Originally Posted by Stoo

Actually, I don't think that's as much of an issue these days, I lived in a student heavy broadband area at uni and I can't say it was noticable at all, most cable providers have a *lot* of spare capacity these days :)

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Not necessarily, Its only lately that both cable networks have upgraded and made use of multiple muxing of D/S. Still worth checking as its a binding contract. You can also check with DocsDiag.

Reason copper cat5 should not be used outside is because if anything happens to the insulation, i.e water gets in, you could risk damaging the switch/router/NIC at each end of the cable. At home when you have a £40 router thats not much of a problem, but in insustry when the switches either side of the cable may have set you back £3k each that is a problem. Is also very succeptible to lightning strikes etc.

Fibre optic doesnt carry electronic signals so if its hit by lightning, cut, shorted, submerged in water, it wont make a blind bit of difference to the £3k switches at either end.

To be honest i've tried wireless between my houses (2 driveways in between as well as the 2 external walls) and its too flaky signals too poor. I am gonna run sheilded cat 5 through a hosepipe or the like and through trunking under both carports. I dont mind if anything happens to my £40 netgear router and free 24 port switch at either end, the risks are pretty low, low enough for me at home, but far too high for me at work. You should see the amount of fibre between the buildings in work!

Butuz

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Originally Posted by directhex

wireless is a bad choice, the cons outweigh the pros.

if the landlord doesn't want to put in a wired network properly (ours did, he could hike the rent up for the next lot & take advantage of comsci students), then just sling long loops of cat5 all over the place. the ideal is wall plugs through the wall cavity, though

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yeah, thats the way - i hate wireless, im not saying it donsnt have pros, but OMG, the cons do go on (and on, and on...)

- also, its well worth talking to your lan(d)lord, beacuse i have a mate at uni and he got £200 for wiring up his student house, he did do a good job, running the wires well etc, but at the end of the day, still good


daniel

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lan(d)lord

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Lol very good

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Originally Posted by Butuz

Reason copper cat5 should not be used outside is because if anything happens to the insulation, i.e water gets in, you could risk damaging the switch/router/NIC at each end of the cable. At home when you have a £40 router thats not much of a problem, but in insustry when the switches either side of the cable may have set you back £3k each that is a problem. Is also very succeptible to lightning strikes etc.

Fibre optic doesnt carry electronic signals so if its hit by lightning, cut, shorted, submerged in water, it wont make a blind bit of difference to the £3k switches at either end.

To be honest i've tried wireless between my houses (2 driveways in between as well as the 2 external walls) and its too flaky signals too poor. I am gonna run sheilded cat 5 through a hosepipe or the like and through trunking under both carports. I dont mind if anything happens to my £40 netgear router and free 24 port switch at either end, the risks are pretty low, low enough for me at home, but far too high for me at work. You should see the amount of fibre between the buildings in work!

Butuz

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External antenna's included?