Broadband traffic management and your ISP

[megah0]

I know this is an issue that has affected a number of users on these boards, I am currently with Plusnet who have recently and with no forewarning implemented strict caps and traffic management policies on what were previously marketed as unlimited connections.

I personally will be leaving Plusnet and joining another ISP in the very near future and not just because of the limits but the heavy handed tactics employed in their implementation (no warning emails just a blunt "you have exceeded your cap" - cap..what cap?)

What are your thoughts on this?

Is the broadband market so competative that this is the only way forward for many companies to continue operating or is it just profiteering on the behalf of the companies involved?

Also can people reply with the name of their ISP and whether or not management is employed please thankyou so much

[Splash]

@mgh0 - I'm with Plusnet also - the service has deteriorated massively from the premium ISP they were when I joined them over 2 years ago to a budget ISP now. Sadly that is where the market is headed - I can live within their limits (just) and tbh no other ISP gives me the extras I get from them - I host 5 domains on my account and make use of their standard and CGI webspace features.

That said, game pings are bloody awful with them nowadays - makes me glad I only play WoW and RTS games online! I would have to wear the pwned cap if I were playing shooters.

[dave87]

BT introduced & subsequently revised their caps - increased them iirc. I've been downloading loads this month & last, and they havent said a thing. Dunno if they will tho.

BTW a lot was 155gb in a month & half - compared with my 20gb usage allowance, oops.

Dave

[timread]

Capping sucks. NTL have unofficially discussed caps, but according to their published terms and conditions, their 512kb service has a 1GB monthly cap, and their 1MB and 2MB services are currently unlimited. Unless you're on 2MB and have a Pace STB, in which case you only actually get a 1MB download speed, and have a 30GB monthly cap.

For anyone reading this thread and interested in monitoring your current usage, I've found this proggy to be excellent:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/link/tbm/

Tautology Bandwidth Meter - shows daily and monthly download/upload statistics.

[bez]

mgh0 I got the exact same thing from plusnet. I sent quite a few angry tickets to them it went something like this:

pn: oh sorry you haven't been limited, the email was sent as a mistake
me: so why have i been getting 30k/sec max on downloads
pn: sorry, yes you were limited it's cus you went over the new caps
me: my usage is less than the ones quoted on your website
pn: please look at the "my usage logs"
me: what do you think i've been quoting from in the past 10 tickets?
pn: oh yes. sorry the "peak time" listed in our usage meters is different from the "peak time" we use to measure usage.
me: ok... i'm leaving. but why did i never receive a warning email - and why doesn't the usage meter on your portal reflect what you use to cap people?

I'm still awaiting a reply.

So any plus.netters beware - even if you monitor your usage via their portal they might still limit your traffic. I believe they said the usage meter shows traffic collected between 8am-6pm for displaying "peak usage", while the traffic shaping tracks data downloaded between 8am and midnight.... shocking.

[Foxile]

I think a lot of these companies introducing caps coincides with them pushing VoIP services.

[Rabs]

Re Plusnet and Traffic Management - heres a slightly off topic reply but still has relevence.

Taken From:

http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=57875

I do find that Plusnet's implementation of the SUP (30GB Peak traffic & 100GB total) to be a bit draconian.

Heavy users are the new leprosy of the ISP world - the cause? BT and its stupid CBC charging.

ISP's cannot sustain heavy users anymore, think of it from business terms - 1 user using 200GB per month 'may' cost an ISP approximately £150 - usually this type of user would be subsidised by lots of light users - as P2P has grown, the ratio of med-heavy users has increased.

ISP's cannot keep lighting up new pipes to cover the extra bandwidth as eventually they would go out of business - hence the new 'traffic management' approach many ISP's are taking.

Im with PN and may use approximately 60-80GB a month, I clearly fall under the SUP limits - I schedule any downloads 'off peak' and get on with my happy life - because of referrals I pay less than £17 a month for PN's BB Premier package, which is great value.

Two other ISP's that are taking this approach are Tiscali and Pipex with virtually all soon to follow.

Unfortunately theres very few ISP's currently with high/no limits - even these I would say will implement some type of 'traffic management' in the future.

Our only saviour? Cheaper BT central charges or LLU.

If you use lots of bandwidth, you will have to pay for it - Zen is one I'd recommend.

(before the flames start - we'll have no 'but I signed up to unlimited etc etc' - this argument has been done to death on various forums).

[pp05]

If you're within 100gb limit it's ok but boy does it suck the first time your bandwidth is throttled. It's worst than 56k dial up.

[peterb]

"Heavy users are the new leprosy of the ISP world - the cause? BT and its stupid CBC charging."

Bandwidth isn't free - capacity based charging is one way of paying for bandwidth - another model would be that used by mobile phone companies - so much per megabyte...

However you look at it, there is a cap in progress - most uncapped ISPs limit by speed - a 1 Mb/s connection can download a max of roughly 324Gbytes downloading 24x7 at max speed for a month.

[Rabs]

Bandwidth isn't free - capacity based charging is one way of paying for bandwidth - another model would be that used by mobile phone companies - so much per megabyte...

However you look at it, there is a cap in progress - most uncapped ISPs limit by speed - a 1 Mb/s connection can download a max of roughly 324Gbytes downloading 24x7 at max speed for a month.

Correct, as explained further down ISP's used to rely on light users to subsidise heavy users hence the so called 'unlimited' packages that weren't quite unlimited...etc.

As MaxDSL is rolled out, you watch traffic management come in to play with virtually all (if not all) isps.

[Mimp]

I do find that Plusnet's implementation of the SUP (30GB Peak traffic & 100GB total) to be a bit draconian.

Eeek. Now i'm sure there are legitimate reasons for shifting over a Gb every day, but i think most of the people with those legitimate reasons aren't going to mind paying £30 a month to get a top notch unlimited service.

Plusnet have some very aggresive pricing going on, anyone exceeding their limits must be costing them a fortune. Admittedly they could have conducted themselves in a slightly more open manner, but you can't really complain about what they're doing.

I'm a fairly light user as i mostly use my connection for email etc.. but i do listen to internet radio and i downloaded a load of c# videos last month. Despite this I still didn't break 5Gb.
Going over 100Gb is a frightening thought. Where do you put it all?

[Rabs]

Eeek. Now i'm sure there are legitimate reasons for shifting over a Gb every day, but i think most of the people with those legitimate reasons aren't going to mind paying £30 a month to get a top notch unlimited service.

Plusnet have some very aggresive pricing going on, anyone exceeding their limits must be costing them a fortune. Admittedly they could have conducted themselves in a slightly more open manner, but you can't really complain about what they're doing.

I'm a fairly light user as i mostly use my connection for email etc.. but i do listen to internet radio and i downloaded a load of c# videos last month. Despite this I still didn't break 5Gb.
Going over 100Gb is a frightening thought. Where do you put it all?

I think you may have taken that sentence in the wrong context, I was disagreeing with how it was implemented (ie lack of communication from Plusnet) not that actual limits themselves.

In addition, traffic management I think is a good move. I play Eve Online way too much, so as a gamer I want low pings. When my other half wants to look at websites - she wants them quickly - my current ISP Plusnet - provides both of those without problem. I dont want my gaming/http/email/VOIP interrupted by the P2P/Newsgroup leech crowd (again another argument).

ISPS will simply set a GB limit to the amount of P2P/Newsgroup traffic out of there total GB bandwidth. This will mean everyone using these protocols will see decreased speeds while the rest who want other stuff at high speed (ie me) will benefit.

[herulach]

Eeek. Now i'm sure there are legitimate reasons for shifting over a Gb every day, but i think most of the people with those legitimate reasons aren't going to mind paying £30 a month to get a top notch unlimited service.

Plusnet have some very aggresive pricing going on, anyone exceeding their limits must be costing them a fortune. Admittedly they could have conducted themselves in a slightly more open manner, but you can't really complain about what they're doing.

I'm a fairly light user as i mostly use my connection for email etc.. but i do listen to internet radio and i downloaded a load of c# videos last month. Despite this I still didn't break 5Gb.
Going over 100Gb is a frightening thought. Where do you put it all?

Not long over an hour a day on VIOP (which i easily manage) tots up to around half a gig, say i want to install MiKTeX, download a DVD iso and patch my fresh bf2 up to the newest, youve got around 5 gig there. Then theres all the bandwidth taken up by gaming (i dont have any figures, but i guess it would maybe tot up to a gig over a week or so). And everyone looks at pr0n, so maybe add in another gig there, thats at 7gigs for a week before you even think about general browsing. Throw 2 computers in the mix (or 6 in our case) and it comes round pretty fast. Fortunately NTL dont do anything like that at the mo, or at leadt i dont think tey do, cos if anyone was a candidate for traffic management it would be us (router stats showing just under 9 gigs in the last 24hours.

[Mimp]

Not long over an hour a day on VIOP (which i easily manage) tots up to around half a gig, say i want to install MiKTeX, download a DVD iso and patch my fresh bf2 up to the newest, youve got around 5 gig there. Then theres all the bandwidth taken up by gaming (i dont have any figures, but i guess it would maybe tot up to a gig over a week or so). And everyone looks at pr0n, so maybe add in another gig there, thats at 7gigs for a week before you even think about general browsing. Throw 2 computers in the mix (or 6 in our case) and it comes round pretty fast. Fortunately NTL dont do anything like that at the mo, or at leadt i dont think tey do, cos if anyone was a candidate for traffic management it would be us (router stats showing just under 9 gigs in the last 24hours.

Is voip really that bandwidth heavy? I've never used it, but i've heard the quality isn't generally great. Seing as phonecalls are mono lets say you need about 64kbps each way, so 128kbps in total.
I make that about 1Mb/minute, so an hour a day = 60 x 30 = about 1.8Gb a month.
I cant imagine most people legitimately download a dvd iso every month, there are only so many flavours of linux you can try before you get sick but lets say 2Gb of linux a month for arguments sake.
things like app downloads and bf2 patching are one offs, but let's say 4Gb a month for that if your the sort of person that's continually installing new things.
You reckon 4Gb a month for gaming

thats.. erm 12Gb - edit, oops missed the porn. make it 13 then

30 is still looking pretty generous.
100 is still looking way out of reach.

If you've got 6 people using the same connection, you might well have to pay for a more expensive service, i don't think that's generally what home producs are designed for.

I think you may have taken that sentence in the wrong context, I was disagreeing with how it was implemented (ie lack of communication from Plusnet) not that actual limits themselves.

Yeah i think i did. soz, looks like we are in agreement.

[herulach]

Is voip really that bandwidth heavy? I've never used it, but i've heard the quality isn't generally great. Seing as phonecalls are mono lets say you need about 64kbps each way, so 128kbps in total.
I make that about 1Mb/minute, so an hour a day = 60 x 30 = about 1.8Gb a month.
I cant imagine most people legitimately download a dvd iso every month, there are only so many flavours of linux you can try before you get sick but lets say 2Gb of linux a month for arguments sake.
things like app downloads and bf2 patching are one offs, but let's say 4Gb a month for that if your the sort of person that's continually installing new things.
You reckon 4Gb a month for gaming

thats.. erm 12Gb - edit, oops missed the porn. make it 13 then

30 is still looking pretty generous.
100 is still looking way out of reach.

I know, my point is its doable, whether or not its week in week out, like i said, im with ntl so i dont have any problem with it. If it was legitimately just me, theres no way id hit 100GB a month, simply because azereus has speed scheduler, so i can easily set it to not download a thte peak times.


If you've got 6 people using the same connection, you might well have to pay for a more expensive service, i don't think that's generally what home producs are designed for.



Yeah i think i did. soz, looks like we are in agreement.[/QUOTE]

[Lee H]

I've been downloading loads this month & last, and they havent said a thing. Dunno if they will tho.

Oh they will. They'll monitor your usage, and if you continue to download at the same rate they'll send the standard generated letter to your home warning you not to do it again

There are simple ways around these "management" platforms such as changing etc for certain applications. These are not tricky to do, they just require a bit of knowledge and fiddling.

As for VOIP - I'm constantly on the talkscan VoIP while on WoW etc to other mates on their PC's and depending on codec used they can use quite a bit of data.

I hate how all these ISP's have moved the goalposts and have ammended their T&C's so many times now.

Digital Britain huh ?